Why is the person defending sex work so massively downvoted? Makes that rhetoric seem extremely hollow, especially in the light of the rest of the thread.
I mean, what swerfs outright say "I hate sex workers"?
The response to their second (long) comment lays it out pretty well. Abolition of sex as work is abolition of the patriarchal system that fosters it.
Sex as work is a method of control that allows for the imposition of class power over an individual. Sex is a deeply personal thing that should not be treated as an act of social labor and more as an act of a free individual.
If you want to fuck, go ahead. No one's stopping you. But the existence of sex as work implies that it's being done to pay for ones subsistence when that should be done through labor. Sex should be a leisure activity.
There are some people who would rather their labour be sex work than say standard customer service or factory work. It's a hard subject to deal with as the current system is so steeped in exploitation, but should all sex work be banned? Even socialist countries require some coercion to exist as labour is necessary to provide for the population (for now and the foreseeable future at least), so is sex work less worthy than other types purely due to its nature or just because of the current exploitation?
I really think that it's such a niche thing that it's not worth even exploring until the abolition of the capitalist system. There needs to be a complete destruction of the current system though. If something reforms later under more equitable conditions, it can be handled, but preserving any form of the existing sex work system is not good and will result in the reproduction of the same existing power dynamics that currently exist.
Also I'm gonna let the sex workers make those decisions for themselves after they're provided for and given access to free education, housing, and alternative employment options.
Yes for sure things would need to be completely restructured from the current system . I do think its worth discussing and thinking about what those replacement options might be though, at least a little as it is good to gauge how people feel about the subject, a lot of socialist countries have had very conservative views on things like relationships and sexuality after all and is something that needs to be worked on in a lot of international leftist groups. Any actual functional details of how such a system might actually work should really be left to the people that would actually want to do sex work given the option though.
It's not like we are all going to work at the widget factory during communism, there will be almost as many jobs then as there is now (less need for pointless shit like PR or marketing) , so if someone wants to fulfill their obligations via sex work when given the option then I don't really see the problem. Not something I'd consider or need personally but some would, there are already people working as sex therapists etc.
I think a drive to abolish sex as work while also supporting the sex worker and providing a safe venue for the fulfilment of sex as work until the contradiction can be resolved by the workers themselves is about the only option.
Also there's a huge assumption that a lot of people making that like you can go to a job fair and choose "sex worker" right now when in reality it's a heavy combination of people who do other labor and need to supplement that wage income with sex work and people who have been trafficked either as children or as immigrants and are essentially slaves.
Until the only version of sex work is "part time sex work", I don't even think this conversation is productive. No one's saying part time sex work is bad, it's the other kind that's horrifically common everywhere that's the problem.
its a cornypost. whats the proposed solution to this unique social ill? the "nordic model"? this blinkered prudishness masking as materialist analysis correctly describes sex work as necessitated by workers' conditions, but then can't make a distinction between the work and the conditions.
I really don't think there's even a way to discuss the continuation of sex work until the rotten core of it is revealed and removed. Modern sex work is primarily through either boyfriend style pimps or trafficking of children and teenagers. There is also the landlord situation of sex for rent (either the landlord or someone who pays the rent for sex).
These sorts of things cannot be allowed to exist. They need to be rooted out and destroyed. Some form of legalization and assistance to sex workers will be helpful, but there's a lot of generational trauma built into that system that can't be taken out.
Abolition of the current model of sex work is an absolute necessity. Abolition of sex work as a necessity for subsistence needs to be a priority. Abolition of small scale operations and even individual operations needs to stop (individual as in on the street). There needs to be a registry and active effort to check on as many people as possible to make sure they're okay.
Formation of legalized and safe environments for the temporary continuation of sex work in a safe way is also necessary. You can't abolish that system overnight, that'll just drive out underground and make the abuse worse. Bring it to the surface and shine a light on it, make sure everyone's safe.
As the trauma fades and the workers themselves begin to gain more autonomy, then you might have a system that's okay, but it's not an industry that you can just flip a switch on.
That's the most up voted response to the person defending sex work, is that bad?
Why is the person defending sex work so massively downvoted? Makes that rhetoric seem extremely hollow, especially in the light of the rest of the thread.
I mean, what swerfs outright say "I hate sex workers"?
The response to their second (long) comment lays it out pretty well. Abolition of sex as work is abolition of the patriarchal system that fosters it.
Sex as work is a method of control that allows for the imposition of class power over an individual. Sex is a deeply personal thing that should not be treated as an act of social labor and more as an act of a free individual.
If you want to fuck, go ahead. No one's stopping you. But the existence of sex as work implies that it's being done to pay for ones subsistence when that should be done through labor. Sex should be a leisure activity.
There are some people who would rather their labour be sex work than say standard customer service or factory work. It's a hard subject to deal with as the current system is so steeped in exploitation, but should all sex work be banned? Even socialist countries require some coercion to exist as labour is necessary to provide for the population (for now and the foreseeable future at least), so is sex work less worthy than other types purely due to its nature or just because of the current exploitation?
I really think that it's such a niche thing that it's not worth even exploring until the abolition of the capitalist system. There needs to be a complete destruction of the current system though. If something reforms later under more equitable conditions, it can be handled, but preserving any form of the existing sex work system is not good and will result in the reproduction of the same existing power dynamics that currently exist.
Also I'm gonna let the sex workers make those decisions for themselves after they're provided for and given access to free education, housing, and alternative employment options.
Yes for sure things would need to be completely restructured from the current system . I do think its worth discussing and thinking about what those replacement options might be though, at least a little as it is good to gauge how people feel about the subject, a lot of socialist countries have had very conservative views on things like relationships and sexuality after all and is something that needs to be worked on in a lot of international leftist groups. Any actual functional details of how such a system might actually work should really be left to the people that would actually want to do sex work given the option though.
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It's not like we are all going to work at the widget factory during communism, there will be almost as many jobs then as there is now (less need for pointless shit like PR or marketing) , so if someone wants to fulfill their obligations via sex work when given the option then I don't really see the problem. Not something I'd consider or need personally but some would, there are already people working as sex therapists etc.
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:ypg-brace:
It's the /r/GZD version of "I have no problem with Chinese people but fUCk thE sEE-SeE-PeE"
*ducks
And the same as the Christians saying "I love gay people, I just can't support their lifestyle".
And the same as "I love sex work, by the way, i'm not a pimp".
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The stats would mostly be made up by right wing think tanks.
So long as we keep sex work illegal we wont be able to know.
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Huh, that probably should be a bigger factor in the discussion
I think a drive to abolish sex as work while also supporting the sex worker and providing a safe venue for the fulfilment of sex as work until the contradiction can be resolved by the workers themselves is about the only option.
Also there's a huge assumption that a lot of people making that like you can go to a job fair and choose "sex worker" right now when in reality it's a heavy combination of people who do other labor and need to supplement that wage income with sex work and people who have been trafficked either as children or as immigrants and are essentially slaves.
Until the only version of sex work is "part time sex work", I don't even think this conversation is productive. No one's saying part time sex work is bad, it's the other kind that's horrifically common everywhere that's the problem.
its a cornypost. whats the proposed solution to this unique social ill? the "nordic model"? this blinkered prudishness masking as materialist analysis correctly describes sex work as necessitated by workers' conditions, but then can't make a distinction between the work and the conditions.
I really don't think there's even a way to discuss the continuation of sex work until the rotten core of it is revealed and removed. Modern sex work is primarily through either boyfriend style pimps or trafficking of children and teenagers. There is also the landlord situation of sex for rent (either the landlord or someone who pays the rent for sex).
These sorts of things cannot be allowed to exist. They need to be rooted out and destroyed. Some form of legalization and assistance to sex workers will be helpful, but there's a lot of generational trauma built into that system that can't be taken out.
Abolition of the current model of sex work is an absolute necessity. Abolition of sex work as a necessity for subsistence needs to be a priority. Abolition of small scale operations and even individual operations needs to stop (individual as in on the street). There needs to be a registry and active effort to check on as many people as possible to make sure they're okay.
Formation of legalized and safe environments for the temporary continuation of sex work in a safe way is also necessary. You can't abolish that system overnight, that'll just drive out underground and make the abuse worse. Bring it to the surface and shine a light on it, make sure everyone's safe.
As the trauma fades and the workers themselves begin to gain more autonomy, then you might have a system that's okay, but it's not an industry that you can just flip a switch on.