I get so much conflicting information about China, some say it's a dictatorship, a creepy dystopian surveillance state. Other times I hear it's a lovely, friendly country with a great quality of life.
I admit, I'm a lazy :LIB: and I don't know much about China. So I have a few questions:
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Is China a democracy? I know it's single-party ruled, but can they choose their leaders within the communist party?
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What is the work culture like for the average person? Are people overworked and underpaid, like I've read in western media, or is that all projection?
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Is the average person happy? How are disadvantaged people treated?
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What's privacy like there? As bad as the west, better or worse?
It would be cool to get some answers from someone who has actually lived in China, if any of you have. I'm pretty sure we have a couple of Chinese users?
P.S. Pls don't gulag me for being taking so long to learn more about world politics I am terrible at being a leftist :anarcho-bottom: :left-unity-4:
Hello comrade, I currently live in China, and study a degree in a Chinese university. I have been here for two years, and my experience couldn't be better. (Although I have to say that as someone that speaks Chinese fluently, my experience might differ from your average immigrant)
Is China a democracy? I know it’s single-party ruled, but can they choose their leaders within the communist party?
Depends on what's your definition of democracy, but I would say it is. As far as I know, people can vote to choose their district leaders, then the district leaders can vote to choose the provincial leaders, and then the provincial leaders can vote to choose the leadership (I will ask my girlfriend later to make sure the information I provided was accurate). Their democracy system is pyramidal and mostly based on merit.
What is the work culture like for the average person? Are people overworked and underpaid, like I’ve read in western media, or is that all projection?
Overworked, mostly yes. Underpaid, no. That's one of the main criticisms I have regarding China: people work a lot, and more often than not, their job becomes the center of their lives. However, the government is aware of this problem, and is trying to solve it.
Is the average person happy? How are disadvantaged people treated?
The average Chinese is pretty happy, their living standards are rising by the day, and China is a pretty safe country. Pretty much their biggest problem is long working hours.
If by disadvantaged you mean people with some kind of condition; a lot of Chinese infrastructure is not yet equipped with things that can make the lives of disabled people easier. If by disadvantaged you mean impoverished people, framers, and people with a low cultural level; the Chinese government does a lot for them. My girlfriend's parents are poor farmers, and I know well that they don't have to pay for the water bill, and their electricity bill is cheaper. Also, despite coming from a poor and not too educated family, my girlfriend became an aeronautical engineer. That should tell you everything about the opportunities Chinese have to get out of poverty.
Special mention to the programs to eradicate extremely poverty that the Chinese government conducts. You can watch this video if you want to know more about them: https://youtu.be/k24-ZhKGjnI
What’s privacy like there? As bad as the west, better or worse?
Privacy in regards to private companies or in regards to the government? In my opinion, private companies are quite annoying, and they try get all the data they can. It's kind of like in the West, although recently the government launched a set of laws that aim to stop this predatory behaviour.
In regards to the government, the claims that China is a surveillance state and everything is censored and controlled are fake. There has even been cases of people praising the Japanese imperialist invasion and the brutal genocide of Chinese, and they didn't got punished, or if they did, it was very lightly (imagine what would happen if a Jew in Israel praised Nazis and the genocide). Anyway, it's hard to know to what extent the Chinese government collects data of their nationals, but I think rather than focusing on the extent they collect data, we should focus on how they use it; and I'm almost sure they aren't using it for dubious purposes.
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Finally, on a personal note, I love it here. The vibes are different, people is optimistic about the future, and everyone is trying their best to improve and fight for a better future. Most people is pretty chill and friendly, and the society is much less superficial. I will most likely form a family here.
I hope I helped, comrade. Feel free to ask me anything. I can tell you a lot about university life in China (which is remarkably different and special). There are actually so many things to say about China, and I have so many experiences, that this post actually feels like a small drop of nothingness.
people are optimistic about the future
This honestly sounds like such a huge change. At this point I’m so used to being surrounded by people who’s basic attitude is “shit’s bad and getting worse” myself included. And that stretches from my friend’s chud racist parents with a confederate flag outside their house to the left-lib world of academia to this site. The prevailing feeling is pessimism about the present and future
I know right? national morale in the USA is so low, people are literally hopeless. Hopeless people do crazy things, like shoot up a school, become a hard drug addict, join a right wing militia, kill themselves, post hate on the internet and just cause a lot of our societal problems you know? it all adds up to a overwhelming national feeling of despair, though people blame different things for the source. Capitalism is stripping away anything meaningful to people and the government does nothing to ease the pain this creates. this feeds back into itself, as people trust eachother less and less as society rots
everyone is trying their best to improve and fight for a better future
like this is crazy for me you never see this in the US. everyone is concerned about themselves and steps all over eachother ruining the future as a whole. There are some things you can't buy with looted gold.
I watched New York flood and the Supreme court kill Roe v Wade. I'm glad to see some people in the world have hope for the future.
Yes, it was such a breath of fresh air for me.
One of the best and silly things about living in China is to see old people having fun at night, dancing in the saquares, and playing chess, cards or mahjong. It's just amazing, and it fills me with energy and joy. It makes big cities look like villages rather than souless concrete jungles.
https://youtu.be/cSZ2AKvF2Kk https://youtu.be/SU74qF2YvZ8
despite coming from a poor and not too educated family, my girlfriend became an aeronautical engineer
This sentence is so beautiful to me. I can't wait to eventually visit China.
Hopeless people do crazy things, like shoot up a school, become a hard drug addict, join a right wing militia, kill themselves, post hate on the internet and just cause a lot of our societal problems you know
They'll do anything but organize against oppression :angery:
That was very interesting, thank you for taking the time to share your experiences. It sounds nice!
How open is china towards brown/black people? What about Indians, considering the rough relations between the two countries? I’ve heard horror stories about black people and other immigrants not being let in shops and being treated poorly but I’m not sure if that’s just western propaganda.
Most Chinese people are indifferent to other races in daily life. The stories about dark skinned people being treated poorly are real, but they aren't the norm. The bigger issue is the attitude towards race mixing. It is sadly too common for gen x and up to believe that bringing dark skinned people into the family is wrong. This is the same for LBGT. Slowly these attitudes are changing, but there is a long way to go. If you are dark skinned and not becoming part of a Chinese family, most likely the worst thing you will face is people either staring at you or sometimes even asking for a photo because you are the first dark skinned person they have seen in their life.
How open is china towards brown/black people?
In general, very open. Most foreign students in China come from the Global South. I have classmates from Afghanistan, Ghana, India, Pakistan, etc. If I remember correctly, Koreans make up the majority of foreign students, followed closely by Indians and Pakistanis. And I wouldn't be surprised that if we grouped international students in China by regions instead countries, most students would come from Africa and South East Asia.
I think the attitude most Chinese have towards black people is a curious/innocent one, rather than a racist one. Although I must say that racism definitely exist, and there are still a lot of people that have prejudices against black people, especially when it comes marriage and relationships.
What about Indians, considering the rough relations between the two countries?
The same like with Westerners: most Chinese won't care and will treat them fine. Some people might secretly hold some grudges, but won't really do anything about it.
I have had Indian classmates and they weren't treated differently. My Pakistani and Indian classmates also seemed to get along. At the end of the day, people tell apart politics from reality.
I’ve heard horror stories about black people and other immigrants not being let in shops and being treated poorly but I’m not sure if that’s just western propaganda.
I'm brown myself (morrocan decent), and I didn't face discrimination. Some people even think I'm from Xinjiang.
Those stories you talk about could partially be true, and might have happened at some point, but you know how it is with Western media: they are dishonest, rarely tell all the truth (or directly lie), and blow things out of proportion. The things you described are absolutely uncommon, and if they happen the government is quick to take action.
Some people even think I’m from Xinjiang.
Reminds me of this Pakistani university student when she was asked if she was from XJ. My feel from that question was that XJ right now is pretty uncontroversial in the country, in glaring contrast to western reporting of it.
(Disclaimer: I don't live in China, just what I've heard) It does happen AFAIK but is rare and blown out of proportion. Most Chinese (along with other East Asians ofc) have never seen a black person and most of their exposure to them is through Western media which obviously stereotypes them. They'll stare and perhaps ask questions but generally won't be racist.
LGBT community did not seem terribly well accepted. Lots of jokes about gay people, etc, but maybe not so different than here in the early aughts
How does this differ between the generations? Are Chinese zoomers accepting? Do they have the same views as Anglo zoomers?
I was in a Chinese airport on a layover while traveling to Thailand. I had a bowl of soup and a piece of bread. I grabbed a banana too. It was cool.
I don't know the actual name but it was a kind of mixed vegetable soup in a mushroom broth. It had a big carrot and some kind thing that might have been radishes.
chinese workers are overworked by like basically any standard, but unlike their neighbours or the world in general the trend has been positive for a while now. underpaid isn't really true, maybe their wages are lower in absolute terms but honestly cost of living in china was quite low when i was on exchange there, so disposable income tends to be pretty okay for most workers if not ideal. i can't speak on privacy, as that's not really anything that i've ever particularly cared about. my experiences as a japanese person studying in china were surprisingly good actually - a lot gets made of the hostility between the countries, but honestly i was treated pretty friendly, all it took was not being a raging chud. i would be a bit careful about overestimating the general mood in china - your average chinese citizen is about as ideologically committed to communism as an american is to capitalism, if not a bit more from what i found. its nowhere near the general malaise of hopelessness in the west. i found that older generations tended to be more left on economics, with unfortunately often shit social takes.
keep in mind the last time i was deeply immersed in chinese life (not visiting relatives) was like during the mid hu jintao years, and it seems to have improved dramatically and some of my comments on overall mood probably arent as accurate nowadays.
I visited China half a decade ago and it was amazing. Only saw southern China but had a hell of a time, and even got to ride in one of their bullet trains. Construction everywhere. Like insane amounts. Generally upbeat mood. If you're white, anywhere outside the Tier 1 cities people will just come up to you and take pictures/talk to practice their English. Incredibly safe, everybody was ridiculously friendly. My favorite parts were just chilling at parks watching the amazing amount of activity and having chats with folks about their lives, which seem overwhelming pretty good. Everybody I talked to was more than willing to criticize government policies, but was overall supportive of a clearly competent government. Working on my Chinese now and maybe I'll live there someday—feels like one of the only places on Earth left where people actually think their life is going to be better in 10 years.
I was in Beijing in 2006 in a bath house feeling uncomfortable about getting the dick out. But we hadn't showered in a week and the family I was visiting (GF's dad) didn't have hot water. There was a guy getting a massage there, the worker was pushing on his belly, and there was poop on the ground. Need I say more?
Is China a democracy? I know it’s single-party ruled, but can they choose their leaders within the communist party?
The CPC only holds like
halftwo thirds of the seats on the NPC and the standing committee. There are a number of parties that have seats in the national government. IIRC though they don't have parties that like, totally oppose the existing government, like the GOP or whatever, it's more like, for example, a small party representing teachers to make sure their opinions get airtime in government decision making?I got the gist but the 'totally' instead of 'nominally' threw me off.
I've been there a few times. In the sticks, people love to buy white losers like me food and drinks. In the public parks, people have activities like dancing, exercise, games, etc. When I saw a non Chinese person, you'd actually stop and chat, because it was so rare.
Every time I go back, it feels like everything has changed. Pre covid, it felt like the country couldn't stay still.
I know more than the average Westerner about China, but I still feel like I know fuck all.
One of the doctors at a practice a family member works at is from China and when he visits home he normally picks up some fancy Chinese cigarettes to give out as gifts for coworkers when he gets back.
From what they told me they are very nice cigarettes, but they also might be too pricey for regular use.
There's definitely better brands than others - cigarettes are kind of still a social signifier over there, and hacking darts with dudes you just met and want to impress is a big thing.
I lived in wuhan for a couple years but that was 20 years ago I doubt much is the same. But some of the best memories of my life were made there.
Getting to go to castles and temples that were built before the US was even "discovered" was indescribably cool.
weird first post for a new account, I wonder where this is going :soviet-hmm:
it's apparently actually true: https://i.imgur.com/YZHItld.png
China is kind of all of the things you mention at once. When I was there, I saw everything you mention in varying degrees.
There’s a great movie by a Chinese American filmmaker called Dead Pigs that offers an interesting look at a lot of the contradictions of life in modern China, although I can’t vouch for its accuracy because it deals with shit outside of my limited experience.
