I recognize the OP's username. They were the same person who derailed a thread a while back by going on a tear about China and Tankies (a term I use non-pejoratively). I also remember them also going into right-wing conspiracy shit about China lying about their Covid numbers in the process.
Based on that, I presume this thread was primarily made for the purpose of going "See!? See!? China Bad! China Bad! See how delusional you tankies are!?"
Yes, but compassionate bullying. Bully their ideas but not them (as long as they are open to learn). If they start posting like chuds, treat them like chuds.
Considering the way they've been acting and their fixation on this, I really don't have much hope.
EDIT: In addition, I can't imagine any of the China Bad users on this site even talking like this guy. Their posts just reads so.... I dunno, inorganic?
Lol pointlessly shits on one of the few successful socialist projects in the world while uncritically repeating state department propaganda "you are what's wrong with the left!!!!"
If we were just more polite, less people would choose fascism
Wait, what? That's literally the opposite of what I'm saying. If you were more kind, and more patient with those of us who may have something to learn from you, your philosophy may flourish. But you're actively pushing people away.
It's almost as if you don't want your philosophy to flourish. You don't want new members coming into your group. It's almost as if YOU'RE the CIA plants, who are actively pushing people away from the left, instead of welcoming them and teaching them and bringing them under your wing.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every leftist has a place in our community. Discussing differences in theory is fine and encouraged, just don't make it personal. Remember: Sectarianism is liberalism.
That depends on their actions and how their philosophy is executed. One can call oneself anything they want, but it's their actions that define what they really are.
I'm not changing the subject. You guys keep harassing me and shitting on me and I'm just trying to have a conversation here and figure out what your deal is.
You have yet to shed the arrogance of having and sharing opinions about things you’ve never read about.
So what you're saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I'll be converted to your faith/philosophy?
My entire comment was telling you that you don't know what communism is and your response was to claim alignment with some standard anarchist-adjascent figures. Do I need to explain why this is changing the subject or can you big a big cool adult and figure it out yourself?
You guys keep harassing me and shitting on me
Because you're acting in bad faith and trying to get gotchas on a topic where you are an absolute dumbfuck. I've explained your exact confusion about terminology many times on this site to people who know how to ask questions about things they don't understand rather than arriving with impregnable ignorance.
I’m just trying to have a conversation here and figure out what your deal is.
You talk like this irl? How often do people roll their eyes or just start ignoring you? You've presented a very basic ignorance of the topic you're trying to discuss and keep trying to troll about China when people actually try to take you seriously.
I get it. Your political education begins and ends with V*ush or the political compass and a little Wikipedia or something. That does not actually grant you license to be an arrogant little prick.
So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?
Perfect example of you being a bad-faith pissbaby.
claim alignment with some standard anarchist-adjascent figures.
Anarcho-Communists. That's my point. There are many flavors of communism.
Do I need to explain why this is changing the subject or can you big a big cool adult and figure it out yourself?
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every leftist has a place in our community. Discussing differences in theory is fine and encouraged, just don't make it personal. Remember: Sectarianism is liberalism. We will ban you if you insult, demean or harass anyone. That is not welcome behavior.
Because you’re acting in bad faith
I'm explicitly telling you the truth - I am acting in GOOD faith. I want to know the answers to my questions. I'm NOT looking for "gotchas". I'm trying to have a conversation. But you guys keep getting all confrontational.
you are an absolute dumbfuck.
We will ban you if you insult, demean or harass anyone.
people who know how to ask questions about things they don’t understand
Oh, is there an etiquette that I'm missing here? Am I supposed to rephrase my questions so I don't offend you?
You talk like this irl? How often do people roll their eyes or just start ignoring you?
I do. And not very often. I tend to surround myself with people who treat others with respect.
You’ve presented a very basic ignorance of the topic you’re trying to discuss and keep trying to troll about China when people actually try to take you seriously.
Ok, obviously I'm "ignorant". But I am not trying to troll anyone. I promise you that. I may just be "the dumbest human on the planet" in your eyes. Sure, granted. Can we just get over that and act like adults?
Your political education begins and ends with V*ush or the political compass and a little Wikipedia or something.
I do enjoy a good Wikipedia session.
That does not actually grant you license to be an arrogant little prick.
If I'm coming off as arrogant, I apologize. Sometimes I'm not self-aware enough to realize that I'm coming off that way. I honestly just ask questions to know the answers. I don't have an ulterior motive. I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm just asking a question because I want to know the answer.
I know you've probably encountered a lot of snarky bullshitters in the past, and maybe you're paranoid and just paint any newcomer with the same brush. But I assure you, I am not one of them.
Anarcho-Communists. That’s my point. There are many flavors of communism.
Which doesn't actually address what I'm saying, but you'd have to know what I mean when I say you don't know what communism is. As a lib who's coping poorly, you neglected to actually try and understand what I'm talking about and asking those questions you claim you've been posing. You got defensive and doubled down: you actually think, despite not doing the reading, that you might know better. And when presented with contradiction, you fail to do the honest thing because of your ego. Get over it, lib. Try to actually contend with the challenges presented to you, not just make excuses. We know you're ignorant of this topic. You know you're ignorant of this topic. Stop making piss-poor attempts at dunking if you want people to help you understand.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every leftist has a place in our community. (...)
Nothing I've said is sectarian, lol. I love my actual ancom and ml etc et ccomrades. Unfortunately, you are a liberal who's barely begun their political education and, more relevantly to this discussion, you are acting in bad faith.
But I love imagining you scrolling through to try and find me violating "da rules". You cannot get more R*ddit cope troll than that.
I’m explicitly telling you the truth - I am acting in GOOD faith.
Bullshit. Your little attempts at gotcha questions are obvious bad-faith, attempting to deflect from answering the point or question. You have yet to actually make any real attempt to contend with the idea that you don't know what communism is. Everyone's telling you that you don't, but your only way of coping is to lash out or make excuses. This is a dishonest, but understandable, reaction to criticism, particularly for someone who's clearly an immature lib.
I want to know the answers to my questions.
Even the rhetorical ones? lol
Like I said, you can have answers to your questions when you show some humility. You have yet to admit to literally any poor actions despite the many examples, you just keep doubling down on your bullshit.
I’m NOT looking for “gotchas”.
This kind of lying is why nobody takes you seriously here.
I’m trying to have a conversation. But you guys keep getting all confrontational.
You've clearly done zero introspection, otherwise you'd be able to recognize that the confrontation in this thread began with your attempts at mocking.
We will ban you if you insult, demean or harass anyone.
:PIGPOOPBALLS:
You are clearly unfamiliar with how we treat trolls.
Oh, is there an etiquette that I’m missing here? Am I supposed to rephrase my questions so I don’t offend you?
Knowing things before having and sharing opinions is etiquette? A lack of that causes offense? What?
I can tell when you're reaching at straws to cope. You can just not do that any time.
I do. And not very often. I tend to surround myself with people who treat others with respect.
Yeah you just roll into the convo with your ML buds with, "Yeah, China sucks. They’re red-fash. Fuck fascists." Nobody pushes back or ignores you, it's just buddy times when you ignorantly attack their politics with V*ush-tier thinking.
Ok, obviously I’m “ignorant”.
Remove the scare quotes and yes, about the topic you keep trying to stir shit about you are deeply ignorant. You haven't done the reading. At all. You don't even know what the word communist references in its different senses, which honestly requires very little theory to understand - you could even get away with none and understand your confusion by just actually caring enough to read a little about it. Or ask in good faith, as opposed to pulling a Leroy Jenkins on a commie community.
But I am not trying to troll anyone. I promise you that. I may just be “the dumbest human on the planet” in your eyes. Sure, granted. Can we just get over that and act like adults?
I've been very clear about what bar you need to clear for being taken seriously by me. You need to actually be humble. That isn't just a mea culpa, it's actually acting in good faith: no more gotcha questions about something you don't understand. If I answer your question or point, you actually contend with it rather than deflecting. You are not unique in having this pattern of defensiveness and you'll never be able to understand this shit - let alone misleading others - until you can do basic self-criticism.
Example: attempting to attack me because I presumably also make mistakes is not good-faith behavior, it's excuse-making for your own poor behavior rather than recognizing it and attempting to move forward.
I do enjoy a good Wikipedia session.
Yes, it is obvious that this and Reddit are the entirety of your political education.
If I’m coming off as arrogant, I apologize. Sometimes I’m not self-aware enough to realize that I’m coming off that way. I honestly just ask questions to know the answers. I don’t have an ulterior motive. I’m not trying to prove a point. I’m just asking a question because I want to know the answer.
"Yeah, China sucks. They’re red-fash. Fuck fascists."
You say this despite not even knowing the basic senses of the word "communist". I'm treating you like you aren't generally incompetent, just a normal human who is arrogant and doesn't know how to recognize their own arrogance. You apparently didn't recognize that knowing the very basics of the term communism might be important for discussing China and making comments about its communist-ness. You felt, rather, confident in your dismissive sinophobia, sinophobia that we all know has rubbed off on you from your :reddit-logo: culture because hey, enough people on the internet said it right? No need to actually read history or theory or fuck even just a dictionary.
There are many examples of this kind of shit in your comment history and it's why everyone is dunking on you.
I will appreciate the apology when your behavior course-corrects and you actually recognize some specific errors you've made.
I know you’ve probably encountered a lot of snarky bullshitters in the past, and maybe you’re paranoid and just paint any newcomer with the same brush. But I assure you, I am not one of them.
Buddy you are identical to 80% of R*dditors aside from some aesthetic choices and it has nothing to do with this site.
You have yet to actually make any real attempt to contend with the idea that you don’t know what communism is.
Again, there are many flavors of communism. Communism isn't just one thing. And everyone can have their own idea of what it "is".
In my view, it is a stateless society free from hierarchy, in which everyone's needs are met, through nonviolence if possible.
little attempts at gotcha questions
Again, your interpretation of this tells me more about you than it does anything else. I am doing nothing of the sort.
You are clearly unfamiliar with how we treat trolls.
I know exactly how we treat trolls, and that's why I never expected ME to be treated as one. Because I WAS acting in good faith, and I WAS asking questions and engaging in the conversation, rather than trolling and insulting.
Knowing things before having and sharing opinions is etiquette?
Honestly, in my experience, etiquette is not treating people like shit. But that's just me.
you just roll into the convo with your ML buds with, “Yeah, China sucks. They’re red-fash. Fuck fascists.” Nobody pushes back or ignores you
Again, I'm 40 years old. I don't have time to "hang out" with people. I have a kid in little league. I have a job. I have my wife's bake shop to help out with. I have shit to take care of. I have reality to deal with. I don't have time to "shoot the shit with my marxist buddies." I don't HAVE any Marxist buddies. If I do have "free time" to "hang out" with anyone, it's with family or my two closest friends from way back, who I love, but who I don't talk politics with, for the most part. Most of the family are actually conservatives or centrist/liberals. They're not bad people. They don't mean anyone any harm, nor do their actions contain any malice. Of my two best friends, one is a conservative and the other is a liberal. They're good people. They're my friends.
That's why I thought Hexbear would be cool. To actually get to talk politics with people who know what they're talking about, and learn more. Maybe MAKE some friendships with other like-minded individuals.
You don’t even know what the word communist references in its different senses
How can you honestly say this? What do you want me to do? Copy/paste shit? Is this some sort of test? Jesus.
This is LITERALLY why I've said that there are different "flavors" of communism. Because the basics of communism - a stateless society in which goods and services are distributed equitably to each according to their needs - is a given. It should be obvious.
Unless I'm wrong? Is that NOT the definition of communism?
If I answer your question or point, you actually contend with it rather than deflecting.
I am 100% on board with that. Are you ready to do that? Or do you just want to keep "dunking" on me?
Again, there are many flavors of communism. Communism isn’t just one thing. And everyone can have their own idea of what it “is”.
Again, you are so ignorant of what I'm talking about that... you don't even know what my criticism is. Rather than ask right off the bat, you're making excuses. This is pissbaby behavior, so I call you a pissbaby when you do it.
In my view, it is a stateless society free from hierarchy, in which everyone’s needs are met, through nonviolence if possible.
I don't care about your view. Like I said, this isn't like picking out your favorite car color. I cannot tell you how disinterested I am in your personal journey of discovery.
Again, your interpretation of this tells me more about you than it does anything else. I am doing nothing of the sort.
Please stop lying. You'd very much like to believe that you're not like that, but guess what: you fucking are. Remember this? "So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?"
Now I get to play the game of "what kind of R*dditor toxicity am I going to get next?" Will it be doubling down on the "very real" question? Will it be bailing on that one claim and pretending there's no trend, that you cannot remember your own actions and refuse to review them, but you're still a good boy so there's no way you've been dishonest? lol
This is the kind of shit you need to get over in order to demonstrate humility. Blanket denials of things everyone can see will not help you.
I know exactly how we treat trolls
I know exactly how we treat trolls, and that’s why I never expected ME to be treated as one. Because I WAS acting in good faith, and I WAS asking questions and engaging in the conversation, rather than trolling and insulting.
"So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?"
lol. Remind me what this was in response to.
Honestly, in my experience, etiquette is not treating people like shit. But that’s just me.
You seem to want to have a conversation about the semantics of etiquette. The only question I have is :whywhywhywhywhy:
Again, I’m 40 years old. I don’t have time to “hang out” with people. I have a kid in little league. I have a job. (...)
I don't care because this is not a defense for lying to me about how you just want to ask questions and learn and have this stupid-ass pity party when called out on your bad faith behavior.
You know that acting like that will stir shit. Stop pretending to be incompetent just to avoid admitting you were wrong about something. That is pissbaby shit.
That’s why I thought Hexbear would be cool.
I do not care if you think this site is cool, :LIB:
How can you honestly say this? What do you want me to do? Copy/paste shit? Is this some sort of test? Jesus.
Well you got it wrong and people called you out. What do you think should happen when someone starts flinging shit, is wrong, and this is pointed out? Let's add on top that they're extremely defensive and deflect from every criticism.
You seem surprised by this very unsurprising thing. You're 40?
This is LITERALLY why I’ve said that there are different “flavors” of communism.
Hmm, should I start keeping count on how many times I need to tell you that you don't even know what I'm referring to? Stop flailing around in the dark and just be a normal humble person, then ask the question. Or actually, let me catch myself: I've actually given you this task as homework because it's fucking simple to figure out if you actually are curious about it rather than jerking yourself off to "red fash tankies" shit.
I am 100% on board with that. Are you ready to do that? Or do you just want to keep “dunking” on me?
You have to exhibit humility first - acknowledge the specific problems I've pointed out re: bad faith interactions and then cut that shit out going forward. I will not teach you things if your responses are going to be baby-ass gotcha questions and deflection and pity parties.
you are so ignorant of what I’m talking about that… you don’t even know what my criticism is.
Ok, rather than abuse me like an asshole, how about you fucking enlighten me, genius? Maybe you'll win a comrade! Or, you could continue to be an asshole. That's always an option, I guess. It doesn't help our cause, but hey.
“So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?”
I guess you misinterpreted that semi-snarky question. I admit it was snarky. But I thought the meaning was obvious. Here it is in a less-hostile format:
Do you think that once I have read all the books you've read, that I will believe the same things you will? Or am I still going to be free to have my own interpretation and opinions on those things?
Please stop lying.
Again, what do you think I'm lying about?
to avoid admitting you were wrong about something
What was I wrong about??
Let’s add on top that they’re extremely defensive and deflect from every criticism.
Which "criticism" have I deflected from? The ones where you call me "lib" or the ones where you call me "pissbaby" or the ones where you belittle me? Because I'm having a hard time keeping up. I must just be stupid, I guess.
Ok, rather than abuse me like an asshole, how about you fucking enlighten me, genius? Maybe you’ll win a comrade!
Oh? I thought you were one of us? Wouldn't you already be a comrade, :LIB:?
And no, the abuse will continue so long as you act in bad faith. I will not be teaching you things until you cease acting in bad faith and take actual corrective action.
Or, you could continue to be an asshole. That’s always an option, I guess. It doesn’t help our cause, but hey.
Hard disagree. It is clear that you have a lot of bad R*dditor habits and will not move past them until you have an actual reckoning. So far, you absolutely haven't done so. Catering to your toxicity and wrecker shit will not lead you to a better place, it will lead you to continue ignoring it.
I guess you misinterpreted that semi-snarky question. I admit it was snarky. But I thought the meaning was obvious.
No, I understood it perfectly as a means of deflecting from what I said. I don't care that it was snarky, I care that it was a pissbaby attempt to avoid my point. I told you to go review what you were responding to, but you don't seem to have done so.
Because your pissbaby ways make it so that you have to avoid the things I say, I will remind you: "You have yet to shed the arrogance of having and sharing opinions about things you’ve never read about."
I was pointing out that you continue to possess and share strong opinions about shit you don't understand, and that's the problem here. Your response to that was to reject this possibility out of hand by suggesting a straw man: that you need to go learn a bunch of esoteric theory and oh that's just so unfair why would anyone expect that of you!? Of course, I've never suggested anything remotely like that: simply that you don't share strong opinions on shit you don't understand. If you think a topic is too complex or lengthy for you to actually read up and understand it, then you can just not have an opinion. I know that this is insanity for :LIB: self-absorption, but no, you actually don't need to have opinions about everything, particularly what you don't understand, let alone log on and share them with other ignorants.
Again, what do you think I’m lying about?
I told you already. Go look it up.
What was I wrong about??
See above.
Which “criticism” have I deflected from?
I would wager all of them. Your idea of humility has been to declare that you don't know everything and that you make mistakes, lol.
The ones where you call me “lib” or the ones where you call me “pissbaby” or the ones where you belittle me? Because I’m having a hard time keeping up. I must just be stupid, I guess.
Nope, I don't think you're stupid. I think you're so averse to any actual self-crit that (1) you deflect criticisms, confusing yourself about what we're talking about and (2) have zero interest in putting in the work to reconstruct a conversation full of your deflections, so you just leave it up to me to repeat myself for the eighth time (so that you can deflect again).
you do know it’s in the modlog for anyone to see, right? Literally the latest entry.
What is? What did I say that was "russiagate shit"? Are you talking about the existence of bot/troll farms? Because if you don't think they exist, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
you also think China have been lying the whole time about their COVID response
I recognize the OP's username. They were the same person who derailed a thread a while back by going on a tear about China and Tankies (a term I use non-pejoratively). I also remember them also going into right-wing conspiracy shit about China lying about their Covid numbers in the process.
Based on that, I presume this thread was primarily made for the purpose of going "See!? See!? China Bad! China Bad! See how delusional you tankies are!?"
They've also been posting russiagate shit lmao, total bad faith poster with a terminal case of
:brainworms:
I mean, they just uncritically posted a foreignpolicy article.
They are a lib, which means that the lib-to-left pipeline is still open.
I hope so, is the policy education followed by bullying if they refuse to listen still?
Yes, but compassionate bullying. Bully their ideas but not them (as long as they are open to learn). If they start posting like chuds, treat them like chuds.
PPB on standby, marxists.org locked and loaded
o7
What's that mean? I'm not a marxist. I'm much more in line with Bakunin and Kropotkin.
deleted by creator
Considering the way they've been acting and their fixation on this, I really don't have much hope.
EDIT: In addition, I can't imagine any of the China Bad users on this site even talking like this guy. Their posts just reads so.... I dunno, inorganic?
Removed by mod
Third time was not the charm. I don't know why, every other post seemed to be fine. Your last three got all sorts of fucked up.
Removed by mod
Yeah this isn't working out.
In case you were wondering, this is what they've been looking like: https://i.imgur.com/CvuRKyw.jpg
Ahh, I get it now. Thanks for being an asshole.
You know why the left isn't as popular as other philosophies, right? People like you.
Lol pointlessly shits on one of the few successful socialist projects in the world while uncritically repeating state department propaganda "you are what's wrong with the left!!!!"
China isn't socialist. They're state-capitalist and authoritarian.
And what have you done to advance socialism, kkkid?
What have you done? All I see you doing is shitting on fellow leftists.
Truly, civility is dead. If we were just more polite, less people would choose fascism in the free market of ideas. :liberalism:
Wait, what? That's literally the opposite of what I'm saying. If you were more kind, and more patient with those of us who may have something to learn from you, your philosophy may flourish. But you're actively pushing people away.
It's almost as if you don't want your philosophy to flourish. You don't want new members coming into your group. It's almost as if YOU'RE the CIA plants, who are actively pushing people away from the left, instead of welcoming them and teaching them and bringing them under your wing.
So according to you, am I a fascist or not? I'm confused on that point.
Your actions make me question your motivations.
I am a Marxist-Leninist. There they are. According to you, am I, or am I not, a fascist?
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every leftist has a place in our community. Discussing differences in theory is fine and encouraged, just don't make it personal. Remember: Sectarianism is liberalism.
OK, but you're already pretty deep into liberalism. So, are Marxist-Leninists fascists?
That depends on their actions and how their philosophy is executed. One can call oneself anything they want, but it's their actions that define what they really are.
Marxism-Leninism is a philosophy first codified by Stalin, who you say was a fascist. Am I, an adherent of this philosophy, a fascist?
Possibly. That depends on how you view the actions of Stalin and his regime, I suppose.
I'm asking for your opinion, not my opinion. I follow Stalin's and Lenin's philosophy. Am. I. A. Fascist?
My dude, you're probably going to be banned for all the sectarianism regardless. Just give me your opinion.
I'm giving you my opinion.
I'm not the one being sectarian here. You guys are the ones attacking ME because I'm an anarchist who is expressing his opinion.
There are many Anarchists on here. They are fine, upstanding members of the community, and I respect them and their opinions. You are a liberal.
So, are they just smart enough to be quiet about their disagreement with how China is run?
There are disagreements, but they're certainly smart enough not to call them fascists.
Ok, so it's just a matter of terminology then?
What can I say except :wall-talk:
Sigh.
I wonder what the deal is. Is this one coming through normal?
What do you mean "inorganic"? And "fixation"?
This just happens to be one of the subjects I care about. I also like classic cars and the Dodgers and graphic design. Nice to meet you too.
I can't read your post. It's formatted all wrong.
What do you mean "inorganic"? And "fixation"?
This just happens to be one of the subjects I care about. I also like classic cars and the Dodgers and graphic design. Nice to meet you too.
(better?)
Still have no idea what you just wrote.
I am an anarcho-communist.
Interesting given that you don't know what communism is
My philosophy aligns more with Bakunin, Kropotkin, and Bookchin than it does Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao etc.
You're changing the subject, pissbaby.
You have yet to shed the arrogance of having and sharing opinions about things you've never read about.
I'm not changing the subject. You guys keep harassing me and shitting on me and I'm just trying to have a conversation here and figure out what your deal is.
So what you're saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I'll be converted to your faith/philosophy?
My entire comment was telling you that you don't know what communism is and your response was to claim alignment with some standard anarchist-adjascent figures. Do I need to explain why this is changing the subject or can you big a big cool adult and figure it out yourself?
Because you're acting in bad faith and trying to get gotchas on a topic where you are an absolute dumbfuck. I've explained your exact confusion about terminology many times on this site to people who know how to ask questions about things they don't understand rather than arriving with impregnable ignorance.
You talk like this irl? How often do people roll their eyes or just start ignoring you? You've presented a very basic ignorance of the topic you're trying to discuss and keep trying to troll about China when people actually try to take you seriously.
I get it. Your political education begins and ends with V*ush or the political compass and a little Wikipedia or something. That does not actually grant you license to be an arrogant little prick.
Perfect example of you being a bad-faith pissbaby.
Anarcho-Communists. That's my point. There are many flavors of communism.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every leftist has a place in our community. Discussing differences in theory is fine and encouraged, just don't make it personal. Remember: Sectarianism is liberalism. We will ban you if you insult, demean or harass anyone. That is not welcome behavior.
I'm explicitly telling you the truth - I am acting in GOOD faith. I want to know the answers to my questions. I'm NOT looking for "gotchas". I'm trying to have a conversation. But you guys keep getting all confrontational.
We will ban you if you insult, demean or harass anyone.
Oh, is there an etiquette that I'm missing here? Am I supposed to rephrase my questions so I don't offend you?
I do. And not very often. I tend to surround myself with people who treat others with respect.
Ok, obviously I'm "ignorant". But I am not trying to troll anyone. I promise you that. I may just be "the dumbest human on the planet" in your eyes. Sure, granted. Can we just get over that and act like adults?
I do enjoy a good Wikipedia session.
If I'm coming off as arrogant, I apologize. Sometimes I'm not self-aware enough to realize that I'm coming off that way. I honestly just ask questions to know the answers. I don't have an ulterior motive. I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm just asking a question because I want to know the answer.
I know you've probably encountered a lot of snarky bullshitters in the past, and maybe you're paranoid and just paint any newcomer with the same brush. But I assure you, I am not one of them.
Which doesn't actually address what I'm saying, but you'd have to know what I mean when I say you don't know what communism is. As a lib who's coping poorly, you neglected to actually try and understand what I'm talking about and asking those questions you claim you've been posing. You got defensive and doubled down: you actually think, despite not doing the reading, that you might know better. And when presented with contradiction, you fail to do the honest thing because of your ego. Get over it, lib. Try to actually contend with the challenges presented to you, not just make excuses. We know you're ignorant of this topic. You know you're ignorant of this topic. Stop making piss-poor attempts at dunking if you want people to help you understand.
Nothing I've said is sectarian, lol. I love my actual ancom and ml etc et ccomrades. Unfortunately, you are a liberal who's barely begun their political education and, more relevantly to this discussion, you are acting in bad faith.
But I love imagining you scrolling through to try and find me violating "da rules". You cannot get more R*ddit cope troll than that.
Bullshit. Your little attempts at gotcha questions are obvious bad-faith, attempting to deflect from answering the point or question. You have yet to actually make any real attempt to contend with the idea that you don't know what communism is. Everyone's telling you that you don't, but your only way of coping is to lash out or make excuses. This is a dishonest, but understandable, reaction to criticism, particularly for someone who's clearly an immature lib.
Even the rhetorical ones? lol
Like I said, you can have answers to your questions when you show some humility. You have yet to admit to literally any poor actions despite the many examples, you just keep doubling down on your bullshit.
This kind of lying is why nobody takes you seriously here.
You've clearly done zero introspection, otherwise you'd be able to recognize that the confrontation in this thread began with your attempts at mocking.
:PIGPOOPBALLS:
You are clearly unfamiliar with how we treat trolls.
Knowing things before having and sharing opinions is etiquette? A lack of that causes offense? What?
I can tell when you're reaching at straws to cope. You can just not do that any time.
Yeah you just roll into the convo with your ML buds with, "Yeah, China sucks. They’re red-fash. Fuck fascists." Nobody pushes back or ignores you, it's just buddy times when you ignorantly attack their politics with V*ush-tier thinking.
Remove the scare quotes and yes, about the topic you keep trying to stir shit about you are deeply ignorant. You haven't done the reading. At all. You don't even know what the word communist references in its different senses, which honestly requires very little theory to understand - you could even get away with none and understand your confusion by just actually caring enough to read a little about it. Or ask in good faith, as opposed to pulling a Leroy Jenkins on a commie community.
I've been very clear about what bar you need to clear for being taken seriously by me. You need to actually be humble. That isn't just a mea culpa, it's actually acting in good faith: no more gotcha questions about something you don't understand. If I answer your question or point, you actually contend with it rather than deflecting. You are not unique in having this pattern of defensiveness and you'll never be able to understand this shit - let alone misleading others - until you can do basic self-criticism.
Example: attempting to attack me because I presumably also make mistakes is not good-faith behavior, it's excuse-making for your own poor behavior rather than recognizing it and attempting to move forward.
Yes, it is obvious that this and Reddit are the entirety of your political education.
"Yeah, China sucks. They’re red-fash. Fuck fascists."
You say this despite not even knowing the basic senses of the word "communist". I'm treating you like you aren't generally incompetent, just a normal human who is arrogant and doesn't know how to recognize their own arrogance. You apparently didn't recognize that knowing the very basics of the term communism might be important for discussing China and making comments about its communist-ness. You felt, rather, confident in your dismissive sinophobia, sinophobia that we all know has rubbed off on you from your :reddit-logo: culture because hey, enough people on the internet said it right? No need to actually read history or theory or fuck even just a dictionary.
There are many examples of this kind of shit in your comment history and it's why everyone is dunking on you.
I will appreciate the apology when your behavior course-corrects and you actually recognize some specific errors you've made.
Buddy you are identical to 80% of R*dditors aside from some aesthetic choices and it has nothing to do with this site.
Again, there are many flavors of communism. Communism isn't just one thing. And everyone can have their own idea of what it "is".
In my view, it is a stateless society free from hierarchy, in which everyone's needs are met, through nonviolence if possible.
Again, your interpretation of this tells me more about you than it does anything else. I am doing nothing of the sort.
I know exactly how we treat trolls, and that's why I never expected ME to be treated as one. Because I WAS acting in good faith, and I WAS asking questions and engaging in the conversation, rather than trolling and insulting.
Honestly, in my experience, etiquette is not treating people like shit. But that's just me.
Again, I'm 40 years old. I don't have time to "hang out" with people. I have a kid in little league. I have a job. I have my wife's bake shop to help out with. I have shit to take care of. I have reality to deal with. I don't have time to "shoot the shit with my marxist buddies." I don't HAVE any Marxist buddies. If I do have "free time" to "hang out" with anyone, it's with family or my two closest friends from way back, who I love, but who I don't talk politics with, for the most part. Most of the family are actually conservatives or centrist/liberals. They're not bad people. They don't mean anyone any harm, nor do their actions contain any malice. Of my two best friends, one is a conservative and the other is a liberal. They're good people. They're my friends.
That's why I thought Hexbear would be cool. To actually get to talk politics with people who know what they're talking about, and learn more. Maybe MAKE some friendships with other like-minded individuals.
How can you honestly say this? What do you want me to do? Copy/paste shit? Is this some sort of test? Jesus.
This is LITERALLY why I've said that there are different "flavors" of communism. Because the basics of communism - a stateless society in which goods and services are distributed equitably to each according to their needs - is a given. It should be obvious.
Unless I'm wrong? Is that NOT the definition of communism?
I am 100% on board with that. Are you ready to do that? Or do you just want to keep "dunking" on me?
Again, you are so ignorant of what I'm talking about that... you don't even know what my criticism is. Rather than ask right off the bat, you're making excuses. This is pissbaby behavior, so I call you a pissbaby when you do it.
I don't care about your view. Like I said, this isn't like picking out your favorite car color. I cannot tell you how disinterested I am in your personal journey of discovery.
Please stop lying. You'd very much like to believe that you're not like that, but guess what: you fucking are. Remember this? "So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?"
Now I get to play the game of "what kind of R*dditor toxicity am I going to get next?" Will it be doubling down on the "very real" question? Will it be bailing on that one claim and pretending there's no trend, that you cannot remember your own actions and refuse to review them, but you're still a good boy so there's no way you've been dishonest? lol
This is the kind of shit you need to get over in order to demonstrate humility. Blanket denials of things everyone can see will not help you.
I know exactly how we treat trolls, and that’s why I never expected ME to be treated as one. Because I WAS acting in good faith, and I WAS asking questions and engaging in the conversation, rather than trolling and insulting.
"So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?"
lol. Remind me what this was in response to.
You seem to want to have a conversation about the semantics of etiquette. The only question I have is :whywhywhywhywhy:
I don't care because this is not a defense for lying to me about how you just want to ask questions and learn and have this stupid-ass pity party when called out on your bad faith behavior.
You know that acting like that will stir shit. Stop pretending to be incompetent just to avoid admitting you were wrong about something. That is pissbaby shit.
I do not care if you think this site is cool, :LIB:
Well you got it wrong and people called you out. What do you think should happen when someone starts flinging shit, is wrong, and this is pointed out? Let's add on top that they're extremely defensive and deflect from every criticism.
You seem surprised by this very unsurprising thing. You're 40?
Hmm, should I start keeping count on how many times I need to tell you that you don't even know what I'm referring to? Stop flailing around in the dark and just be a normal humble person, then ask the question. Or actually, let me catch myself: I've actually given you this task as homework because it's fucking simple to figure out if you actually are curious about it rather than jerking yourself off to "red fash tankies" shit.
You have to exhibit humility first - acknowledge the specific problems I've pointed out re: bad faith interactions and then cut that shit out going forward. I will not teach you things if your responses are going to be baby-ass gotcha questions and deflection and pity parties.
Ok, rather than abuse me like an asshole, how about you fucking enlighten me, genius? Maybe you'll win a comrade! Or, you could continue to be an asshole. That's always an option, I guess. It doesn't help our cause, but hey.
I guess you misinterpreted that semi-snarky question. I admit it was snarky. But I thought the meaning was obvious. Here it is in a less-hostile format:
Do you think that once I have read all the books you've read, that I will believe the same things you will? Or am I still going to be free to have my own interpretation and opinions on those things?
Again, what do you think I'm lying about?
What was I wrong about??
Which "criticism" have I deflected from? The ones where you call me "lib" or the ones where you call me "pissbaby" or the ones where you belittle me? Because I'm having a hard time keeping up. I must just be stupid, I guess.
Oh? I thought you were one of us? Wouldn't you already be a comrade, :LIB:?
And no, the abuse will continue so long as you act in bad faith. I will not be teaching you things until you cease acting in bad faith and take actual corrective action.
Hard disagree. It is clear that you have a lot of bad R*dditor habits and will not move past them until you have an actual reckoning. So far, you absolutely haven't done so. Catering to your toxicity and wrecker shit will not lead you to a better place, it will lead you to continue ignoring it.
No, I understood it perfectly as a means of deflecting from what I said. I don't care that it was snarky, I care that it was a pissbaby attempt to avoid my point. I told you to go review what you were responding to, but you don't seem to have done so.
Because your pissbaby ways make it so that you have to avoid the things I say, I will remind you: "You have yet to shed the arrogance of having and sharing opinions about things you’ve never read about."
I was pointing out that you continue to possess and share strong opinions about shit you don't understand, and that's the problem here. Your response to that was to reject this possibility out of hand by suggesting a straw man: that you need to go learn a bunch of esoteric theory and oh that's just so unfair why would anyone expect that of you!? Of course, I've never suggested anything remotely like that: simply that you don't share strong opinions on shit you don't understand. If you think a topic is too complex or lengthy for you to actually read up and understand it, then you can just not have an opinion. I know that this is insanity for :LIB: self-absorption, but no, you actually don't need to have opinions about everything, particularly what you don't understand, let alone log on and share them with other ignorants.
I told you already. Go look it up.
See above.
I would wager all of them. Your idea of humility has been to declare that you don't know everything and that you make mistakes, lol.
Nope, I don't think you're stupid. I think you're so averse to any actual self-crit that (1) you deflect criticisms, confusing yourself about what we're talking about and (2) have zero interest in putting in the work to reconstruct a conversation full of your deflections, so you just leave it up to me to repeat myself for the eighth time (so that you can deflect again).
What action would you have me take, sire?
It's a mystery!
I've not "been posting russiagate shit". Where do you get off saying that?
lmao, you do know it's in the modlog for anyone to see, right? Literally the latest entry.
Notably, you also think China have been lying the whole time about their COVID response.
What is? What did I say that was "russiagate shit"? Are you talking about the existence of bot/troll farms? Because if you don't think they exist, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
I never said "the whole time". But if you look at their numbers, that flatline is highly suspect and makes zero sense.
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This is starting to feel like a bit and everyone's being played.
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It's the 29th of September.
...yes? And?
It's the 29th of September, and Stalin saved the world from fascism. :bugs-stalin:
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What Stalin and the USSR did with fascists:
:pit: :stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:
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