They're the one of the only countries in the world that seems to be serious about them. Projected to meet Paris accord goals earlier than agreed.
Beijing tightly limits the maximum price of electricity—causing generators to reduce their supply or shut down rather than lose money.
It sucks to lose power, but if the choice is between electricity rationing for all vs increasing the price (aka electricity rationing for the poor), I think most people here would choose electricity rationing for all. Everything else in this article is about how interconnected the global economy is - the pandemic fucked up global supply chains, China has reduced electricity generation as a result of their fucked up coal supply (which is partially exacerbated by the dumb "trade wars" between them and Australia/the US), this reduces the output of Chinese factories, which further fucks up global supply chains.
Also, China does the opposite of America when there's power shortages.
They shut down Factories > Commercial centers > Homes
The US goes Homes > Homes > Homes
"If your house is cold, stay at work!"
Money is still a proxy for labor hours. A poor one, but it discourages waste and "entrepreneurs" setting up Bitcoin farms and raising emissions.
Mismatching exchanges of labor value causes or exacerbates shortages and inflation. Look at the trouble Venezuela got into by over-subsidizing food when supply could not meet demand.
Or (oversimplified) when Soviet factories overpaid certain workers and allowed them to trade the equivalents of 1 hours work in energy generation for 2 hours work in agriculture, allowing workers to buy more meat and speciality items that distributers could fulfill.
Look at the trouble Venezuela got into by over-subsidizing food when supply could not meet demand.
Could you give me some links to read up more about this from a leftist perspective?
Or (oversimplified) when Soviet factories overpaid certain workers and allowed them to trade the equivalents of 1 hours work in energy generation for 2 hours work in agriculture, allowing workers to buy more meat and speciality items that distributers could fulfill.
Damn.
Happy to see you posting again Guy Dudeman.
Since you're still here, I'd like to cure your liberalism about Gandhi.
Gandhi believed that Jews shouldn't have tried to resist the Holocaust.
That's a very twisted misinterpretation of his words and intentions. I found this interesting from the article:
In March 1939, Shohat spent four days speaking to Gandhi at his ashram and emerged discouraged, feeling that Gandhi had adopted an Arab perspective of Zionism.
Based Gandhi.
:michael-laugh: The professional Gandhi defender is clicking through to the 4-month old thread to defend Gandhi.
https://hexbear.net/post/116165/comment/1309425
Cool, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust and the following Gandhi quote.
“Hitler killed five million [sic] Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs…It would have aroused the world and the people of Germany… As it is they succumbed anyway in their millions.”
Also, same thread:
“Gandhi advocated only for non-violent resistance to the Nazis and sent a conciliatory letter to Adolf Hitler in which he addressed the Fuhrer as a “friend” and wrote that he did not believe the German dictator was the “monster” his opponents described.”
rather than reading excerpts curated to make him look like some sort of nazi collaborator (like Stalin or something)
:michael-laugh:
Molotov-Ribbentrop has been discussed to death and back on here, including what it is, why it is, and what it did. All you had to do was look for it.
On the off-chance you're being honest here:
The USSR had attempted to make pacts with the rest of Europe to fight the Nazis, but was consistently rebuffed. The entire rest of Europe had already made pacts with the Nazis in a bid to push them into the USSR. Therefore, as a last resort, they signed a pact of non-aggression with them in order to buy themselves time and build up their military readiness.
The USSR paid a higher price than any other nation to free the world from fascism. You'd do well to respect that fact, and not push "red fash" "both sides" conspiracy nonsense.
On the one hand: :sankara-shining: WE MUST NEVER STOP EXPLAINING
On the other hand, he'd probably tell me Sankara was a fascist.
Red fash is a thing
Red fash is not a thing. This is literally a reheated Nazi conspiracy theory to try to draw equivalences between two diametrically opposed ideologies.
Never once have I used any “both sides” conspiracy nonsense other than to point out that all the major powers are employing troll farms.
Red fash is a thing
In most countries, these prices would be passed on to consumers, but Beijing tightly limits the maximum price of electricity—causing generators to reduce their supply or shut down rather than lose money.
Why aren't these energy generators nationalized? I thought this was a communist country??
I thought this was a communist country?
Why? Even the biggest red hardliner inside the CPC wouldnt tell you that. They openly declare and accept that they are barely entering preliminary stages of socialism adapted to chinese conditions.
Maybe a little less attempts to dunk on them for not having fully nationalized and demarketized everything and not being in a state they wouldnt even dare to claim they are and a little more understanding and reading about what they actualy say and how they openly describe their economy and why its the way it is
I recognize the OP's username. They were the same person who derailed a thread a while back by going on a tear about China and Tankies (a term I use non-pejoratively). I also remember them also going into right-wing conspiracy shit about China lying about their Covid numbers in the process.
Based on that, I presume this thread was primarily made for the purpose of going "See!? See!? China Bad! China Bad! See how delusional you tankies are!?"
They've also been posting russiagate shit lmao, total bad faith poster with a terminal case of
:brainworms:
I mean, they just uncritically posted a foreignpolicy article.
They are a lib, which means that the lib-to-left pipeline is still open.
I hope so, is the policy education followed by bullying if they refuse to listen still?
Yes, but compassionate bullying. Bully their ideas but not them (as long as they are open to learn). If they start posting like chuds, treat them like chuds.
What's that mean? I'm not a marxist. I'm much more in line with Bakunin and Kropotkin.
Considering the way they've been acting and their fixation on this, I really don't have much hope.
EDIT: In addition, I can't imagine any of the China Bad users on this site even talking like this guy. Their posts just reads so.... I dunno, inorganic?
Third time was not the charm. I don't know why, every other post seemed to be fine. Your last three got all sorts of fucked up.
Yeah this isn't working out.
In case you were wondering, this is what they've been looking like: https://i.imgur.com/CvuRKyw.jpg
Ahh, I get it now. Thanks for being an asshole.
You know why the left isn't as popular as other philosophies, right? People like you.
Lol pointlessly shits on one of the few successful socialist projects in the world while uncritically repeating state department propaganda "you are what's wrong with the left!!!!"
China isn't socialist. They're state-capitalist and authoritarian.
What have you done? All I see you doing is shitting on fellow leftists.
Truly, civility is dead. If we were just more polite, less people would choose fascism in the free market of ideas. :liberalism:
If we were just more polite, less people would choose fascism
Wait, what? That's literally the opposite of what I'm saying. If you were more kind, and more patient with those of us who may have something to learn from you, your philosophy may flourish. But you're actively pushing people away.
It's almost as if you don't want your philosophy to flourish. You don't want new members coming into your group. It's almost as if YOU'RE the CIA plants, who are actively pushing people away from the left, instead of welcoming them and teaching them and bringing them under your wing.
So according to you, am I a fascist or not? I'm confused on that point.
I am a Marxist-Leninist. There they are. According to you, am I, or am I not, a fascist?
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every leftist has a place in our community. Discussing differences in theory is fine and encouraged, just don't make it personal. Remember: Sectarianism is liberalism.
OK, but you're already pretty deep into liberalism. So, are Marxist-Leninists fascists?
That depends on their actions and how their philosophy is executed. One can call oneself anything they want, but it's their actions that define what they really are.
Marxism-Leninism is a philosophy first codified by Stalin, who you say was a fascist. Am I, an adherent of this philosophy, a fascist?
Possibly. That depends on how you view the actions of Stalin and his regime, I suppose.
I'm asking for your opinion, not my opinion. I follow Stalin's and Lenin's philosophy. Am. I. A. Fascist?
My dude, you're probably going to be banned for all the sectarianism regardless. Just give me your opinion.
I'm giving you my opinion.
I'm not the one being sectarian here. You guys are the ones attacking ME because I'm an anarchist who is expressing his opinion.
China is fascist
I'm not being sectarian
There are many Anarchists on here. They are fine, upstanding members of the community, and I respect them and their opinions. You are a liberal.
So, are they just smart enough to be quiet about their disagreement with how China is run?
There are disagreements, but they're certainly smart enough not to call them fascists.
I wonder what the deal is. Is this one coming through normal?
What do you mean "inorganic"? And "fixation"?
This just happens to be one of the subjects I care about. I also like classic cars and the Dodgers and graphic design. Nice to meet you too.
What do you mean "inorganic"? And "fixation"?
This just happens to be one of the subjects I care about. I also like classic cars and the Dodgers and graphic design. Nice to meet you too.
(better?)
My philosophy aligns more with Bakunin, Kropotkin, and Bookchin than it does Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao etc.
You're changing the subject, pissbaby.
You have yet to shed the arrogance of having and sharing opinions about things you've never read about.
I'm not changing the subject. You guys keep harassing me and shitting on me and I'm just trying to have a conversation here and figure out what your deal is.
You have yet to shed the arrogance of having and sharing opinions about things you’ve never read about.
So what you're saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I'll be converted to your faith/philosophy?
I’m not changing the subject.
My entire comment was telling you that you don't know what communism is and your response was to claim alignment with some standard anarchist-adjascent figures. Do I need to explain why this is changing the subject or can you big a big cool adult and figure it out yourself?
You guys keep harassing me and shitting on me
Because you're acting in bad faith and trying to get gotchas on a topic where you are an absolute dumbfuck. I've explained your exact confusion about terminology many times on this site to people who know how to ask questions about things they don't understand rather than arriving with impregnable ignorance.
I’m just trying to have a conversation here and figure out what your deal is.
You talk like this irl? How often do people roll their eyes or just start ignoring you? You've presented a very basic ignorance of the topic you're trying to discuss and keep trying to troll about China when people actually try to take you seriously.
I get it. Your political education begins and ends with V*ush or the political compass and a little Wikipedia or something. That does not actually grant you license to be an arrogant little prick.
So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?
Perfect example of you being a bad-faith pissbaby.
claim alignment with some standard anarchist-adjascent figures.
Anarcho-Communists. That's my point. There are many flavors of communism.
Do I need to explain why this is changing the subject or can you big a big cool adult and figure it out yourself?
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every leftist has a place in our community. Discussing differences in theory is fine and encouraged, just don't make it personal. Remember: Sectarianism is liberalism. We will ban you if you insult, demean or harass anyone. That is not welcome behavior.
Because you’re acting in bad faith
I'm explicitly telling you the truth - I am acting in GOOD faith. I want to know the answers to my questions. I'm NOT looking for "gotchas". I'm trying to have a conversation. But you guys keep getting all confrontational.
you are an absolute dumbfuck.
We will ban you if you insult, demean or harass anyone.
people who know how to ask questions about things they don’t understand
Oh, is there an etiquette that I'm missing here? Am I supposed to rephrase my questions so I don't offend you?
You talk like this irl? How often do people roll their eyes or just start ignoring you?
I do. And not very often. I tend to surround myself with people who treat others with respect.
You’ve presented a very basic ignorance of the topic you’re trying to discuss and keep trying to troll about China when people actually try to take you seriously.
Ok, obviously I'm "ignorant". But I am not trying to troll anyone. I promise you that. I may just be "the dumbest human on the planet" in your eyes. Sure, granted. Can we just get over that and act like adults?
Your political education begins and ends with V*ush or the political compass and a little Wikipedia or something.
I do enjoy a good Wikipedia session.
That does not actually grant you license to be an arrogant little prick.
If I'm coming off as arrogant, I apologize. Sometimes I'm not self-aware enough to realize that I'm coming off that way. I honestly just ask questions to know the answers. I don't have an ulterior motive. I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm just asking a question because I want to know the answer.
I know you've probably encountered a lot of snarky bullshitters in the past, and maybe you're paranoid and just paint any newcomer with the same brush. But I assure you, I am not one of them.
Anarcho-Communists. That’s my point. There are many flavors of communism.
Which doesn't actually address what I'm saying, but you'd have to know what I mean when I say you don't know what communism is. As a lib who's coping poorly, you neglected to actually try and understand what I'm talking about and asking those questions you claim you've been posing. You got defensive and doubled down: you actually think, despite not doing the reading, that you might know better. And when presented with contradiction, you fail to do the honest thing because of your ego. Get over it, lib. Try to actually contend with the challenges presented to you, not just make excuses. We know you're ignorant of this topic. You know you're ignorant of this topic. Stop making piss-poor attempts at dunking if you want people to help you understand.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every leftist has a place in our community. (...)
Nothing I've said is sectarian, lol. I love my actual ancom and ml etc et ccomrades. Unfortunately, you are a liberal who's barely begun their political education and, more relevantly to this discussion, you are acting in bad faith.
But I love imagining you scrolling through to try and find me violating "da rules". You cannot get more R*ddit cope troll than that.
I’m explicitly telling you the truth - I am acting in GOOD faith.
Bullshit. Your little attempts at gotcha questions are obvious bad-faith, attempting to deflect from answering the point or question. You have yet to actually make any real attempt to contend with the idea that you don't know what communism is. Everyone's telling you that you don't, but your only way of coping is to lash out or make excuses. This is a dishonest, but understandable, reaction to criticism, particularly for someone who's clearly an immature lib.
I want to know the answers to my questions.
Even the rhetorical ones? lol
Like I said, you can have answers to your questions when you show some humility. You have yet to admit to literally any poor actions despite the many examples, you just keep doubling down on your bullshit.
I’m NOT looking for “gotchas”.
This kind of lying is why nobody takes you seriously here.
I’m trying to have a conversation. But you guys keep getting all confrontational.
You've clearly done zero introspection, otherwise you'd be able to recognize that the confrontation in this thread began with your attempts at mocking.
We will ban you if you insult, demean or harass anyone.
:PIGPOOPBALLS:
You are clearly unfamiliar with how we treat trolls.
Oh, is there an etiquette that I’m missing here? Am I supposed to rephrase my questions so I don’t offend you?
Knowing things before having and sharing opinions is etiquette? A lack of that causes offense? What?
I can tell when you're reaching at straws to cope. You can just not do that any time.
I do. And not very often. I tend to surround myself with people who treat others with respect.
Yeah you just roll into the convo with your ML buds with, "Yeah, China sucks. They’re red-fash. Fuck fascists." Nobody pushes back or ignores you, it's just buddy times when you ignorantly attack their politics with V*ush-tier thinking.
Ok, obviously I’m “ignorant”.
Remove the scare quotes and yes, about the topic you keep trying to stir shit about you are deeply ignorant. You haven't done the reading. At all. You don't even know what the word communist references in its different senses, which honestly requires very little theory to understand - you could even get away with none and understand your confusion by just actually caring enough to read a little about it. Or ask in good faith, as opposed to pulling a Leroy Jenkins on a commie community.
But I am not trying to troll anyone. I promise you that. I may just be “the dumbest human on the planet” in your eyes. Sure, granted. Can we just get over that and act like adults?
I've been very clear about what bar you need to clear for being taken seriously by me. You need to actually be humble. That isn't just a mea culpa, it's actually acting in good faith: no more gotcha questions about something you don't understand. If I answer your question or point, you actually contend with it rather than deflecting. You are not unique in having this pattern of defensiveness and you'll never be able to understand this shit - let alone misleading others - until you can do basic self-criticism.
Example: attempting to attack me because I presumably also make mistakes is not good-faith behavior, it's excuse-making for your own poor behavior rather than recognizing it and attempting to move forward.
I do enjoy a good Wikipedia session.
Yes, it is obvious that this and Reddit are the entirety of your political education.
If I’m coming off as arrogant, I apologize. Sometimes I’m not self-aware enough to realize that I’m coming off that way. I honestly just ask questions to know the answers. I don’t have an ulterior motive. I’m not trying to prove a point. I’m just asking a question because I want to know the answer.
"Yeah, China sucks. They’re red-fash. Fuck fascists."
You say this despite not even knowing the basic senses of the word "communist". I'm treating you like you aren't generally incompetent, just a normal human who is arrogant and doesn't know how to recognize their own arrogance. You apparently didn't recognize that knowing the very basics of the term communism might be important for discussing China and making comments about its communist-ness. You felt, rather, confident in your dismissive sinophobia, sinophobia that we all know has rubbed off on you from your :reddit-logo: culture because hey, enough people on the internet said it right? No need to actually read history or theory or fuck even just a dictionary.
There are many examples of this kind of shit in your comment history and it's why everyone is dunking on you.
I will appreciate the apology when your behavior course-corrects and you actually recognize some specific errors you've made.
I know you’ve probably encountered a lot of snarky bullshitters in the past, and maybe you’re paranoid and just paint any newcomer with the same brush. But I assure you, I am not one of them.
Buddy you are identical to 80% of R*dditors aside from some aesthetic choices and it has nothing to do with this site.
You have yet to actually make any real attempt to contend with the idea that you don’t know what communism is.
Again, there are many flavors of communism. Communism isn't just one thing. And everyone can have their own idea of what it "is".
In my view, it is a stateless society free from hierarchy, in which everyone's needs are met, through nonviolence if possible.
little attempts at gotcha questions
Again, your interpretation of this tells me more about you than it does anything else. I am doing nothing of the sort.
You are clearly unfamiliar with how we treat trolls.
I know exactly how we treat trolls, and that's why I never expected ME to be treated as one. Because I WAS acting in good faith, and I WAS asking questions and engaging in the conversation, rather than trolling and insulting.
Knowing things before having and sharing opinions is etiquette?
Honestly, in my experience, etiquette is not treating people like shit. But that's just me.
you just roll into the convo with your ML buds with, “Yeah, China sucks. They’re red-fash. Fuck fascists.” Nobody pushes back or ignores you
Again, I'm 40 years old. I don't have time to "hang out" with people. I have a kid in little league. I have a job. I have my wife's bake shop to help out with. I have shit to take care of. I have reality to deal with. I don't have time to "shoot the shit with my marxist buddies." I don't HAVE any Marxist buddies. If I do have "free time" to "hang out" with anyone, it's with family or my two closest friends from way back, who I love, but who I don't talk politics with, for the most part. Most of the family are actually conservatives or centrist/liberals. They're not bad people. They don't mean anyone any harm, nor do their actions contain any malice. Of my two best friends, one is a conservative and the other is a liberal. They're good people. They're my friends.
That's why I thought Hexbear would be cool. To actually get to talk politics with people who know what they're talking about, and learn more. Maybe MAKE some friendships with other like-minded individuals.
You don’t even know what the word communist references in its different senses
How can you honestly say this? What do you want me to do? Copy/paste shit? Is this some sort of test? Jesus.
This is LITERALLY why I've said that there are different "flavors" of communism. Because the basics of communism - a stateless society in which goods and services are distributed equitably to each according to their needs - is a given. It should be obvious.
Unless I'm wrong? Is that NOT the definition of communism?
If I answer your question or point, you actually contend with it rather than deflecting.
I am 100% on board with that. Are you ready to do that? Or do you just want to keep "dunking" on me?
Again, there are many flavors of communism. Communism isn’t just one thing. And everyone can have their own idea of what it “is”.
Again, you are so ignorant of what I'm talking about that... you don't even know what my criticism is. Rather than ask right off the bat, you're making excuses. This is pissbaby behavior, so I call you a pissbaby when you do it.
In my view, it is a stateless society free from hierarchy, in which everyone’s needs are met, through nonviolence if possible.
I don't care about your view. Like I said, this isn't like picking out your favorite car color. I cannot tell you how disinterested I am in your personal journey of discovery.
Again, your interpretation of this tells me more about you than it does anything else. I am doing nothing of the sort.
Please stop lying. You'd very much like to believe that you're not like that, but guess what: you fucking are. Remember this? "So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?"
Now I get to play the game of "what kind of R*dditor toxicity am I going to get next?" Will it be doubling down on the "very real" question? Will it be bailing on that one claim and pretending there's no trend, that you cannot remember your own actions and refuse to review them, but you're still a good boy so there's no way you've been dishonest? lol
This is the kind of shit you need to get over in order to demonstrate humility. Blanket denials of things everyone can see will not help you.
I know exactly how we treat trolls
I know exactly how we treat trolls, and that’s why I never expected ME to be treated as one. Because I WAS acting in good faith, and I WAS asking questions and engaging in the conversation, rather than trolling and insulting.
"So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?"
lol. Remind me what this was in response to.
Honestly, in my experience, etiquette is not treating people like shit. But that’s just me.
You seem to want to have a conversation about the semantics of etiquette. The only question I have is :whywhywhywhywhy:
Again, I’m 40 years old. I don’t have time to “hang out” with people. I have a kid in little league. I have a job. (...)
I don't care because this is not a defense for lying to me about how you just want to ask questions and learn and have this stupid-ass pity party when called out on your bad faith behavior.
You know that acting like that will stir shit. Stop pretending to be incompetent just to avoid admitting you were wrong about something. That is pissbaby shit.
That’s why I thought Hexbear would be cool.
I do not care if you think this site is cool, :LIB:
How can you honestly say this? What do you want me to do? Copy/paste shit? Is this some sort of test? Jesus.
Well you got it wrong and people called you out. What do you think should happen when someone starts flinging shit, is wrong, and this is pointed out? Let's add on top that they're extremely defensive and deflect from every criticism.
You seem surprised by this very unsurprising thing. You're 40?
This is LITERALLY why I’ve said that there are different “flavors” of communism.
Hmm, should I start keeping count on how many times I need to tell you that you don't even know what I'm referring to? Stop flailing around in the dark and just be a normal humble person, then ask the question. Or actually, let me catch myself: I've actually given you this task as homework because it's fucking simple to figure out if you actually are curious about it rather than jerking yourself off to "red fash tankies" shit.
I am 100% on board with that. Are you ready to do that? Or do you just want to keep “dunking” on me?
You have to exhibit humility first - acknowledge the specific problems I've pointed out re: bad faith interactions and then cut that shit out going forward. I will not teach you things if your responses are going to be baby-ass gotcha questions and deflection and pity parties.
you are so ignorant of what I’m talking about that… you don’t even know what my criticism is.
Ok, rather than abuse me like an asshole, how about you fucking enlighten me, genius? Maybe you'll win a comrade! Or, you could continue to be an asshole. That's always an option, I guess. It doesn't help our cause, but hey.
“So what you’re saying is that once I read all of Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao then I’ll be converted to your faith/philosophy?”
I guess you misinterpreted that semi-snarky question. I admit it was snarky. But I thought the meaning was obvious. Here it is in a less-hostile format:
Do you think that once I have read all the books you've read, that I will believe the same things you will? Or am I still going to be free to have my own interpretation and opinions on those things?
Please stop lying.
Again, what do you think I'm lying about?
to avoid admitting you were wrong about something
What was I wrong about??
Let’s add on top that they’re extremely defensive and deflect from every criticism.
Which "criticism" have I deflected from? The ones where you call me "lib" or the ones where you call me "pissbaby" or the ones where you belittle me? Because I'm having a hard time keeping up. I must just be stupid, I guess.
Ok, rather than abuse me like an asshole, how about you fucking enlighten me, genius? Maybe you’ll win a comrade!
Oh? I thought you were one of us? Wouldn't you already be a comrade, :LIB:?
And no, the abuse will continue so long as you act in bad faith. I will not be teaching you things until you cease acting in bad faith and take actual corrective action.
Or, you could continue to be an asshole. That’s always an option, I guess. It doesn’t help our cause, but hey.
Hard disagree. It is clear that you have a lot of bad R*dditor habits and will not move past them until you have an actual reckoning. So far, you absolutely haven't done so. Catering to your toxicity and wrecker shit will not lead you to a better place, it will lead you to continue ignoring it.
I guess you misinterpreted that semi-snarky question. I admit it was snarky. But I thought the meaning was obvious.
No, I understood it perfectly as a means of deflecting from what I said. I don't care that it was snarky, I care that it was a pissbaby attempt to avoid my point. I told you to go review what you were responding to, but you don't seem to have done so.
Because your pissbaby ways make it so that you have to avoid the things I say, I will remind you: "You have yet to shed the arrogance of having and sharing opinions about things you’ve never read about."
I was pointing out that you continue to possess and share strong opinions about shit you don't understand, and that's the problem here. Your response to that was to reject this possibility out of hand by suggesting a straw man: that you need to go learn a bunch of esoteric theory and oh that's just so unfair why would anyone expect that of you!? Of course, I've never suggested anything remotely like that: simply that you don't share strong opinions on shit you don't understand. If you think a topic is too complex or lengthy for you to actually read up and understand it, then you can just not have an opinion. I know that this is insanity for :LIB: self-absorption, but no, you actually don't need to have opinions about everything, particularly what you don't understand, let alone log on and share them with other ignorants.
Again, what do you think I’m lying about?
I told you already. Go look it up.
What was I wrong about??
See above.
Which “criticism” have I deflected from?
I would wager all of them. Your idea of humility has been to declare that you don't know everything and that you make mistakes, lol.
The ones where you call me “lib” or the ones where you call me “pissbaby” or the ones where you belittle me? Because I’m having a hard time keeping up. I must just be stupid, I guess.
Nope, I don't think you're stupid. I think you're so averse to any actual self-crit that (1) you deflect criticisms, confusing yourself about what we're talking about and (2) have zero interest in putting in the work to reconstruct a conversation full of your deflections, so you just leave it up to me to repeat myself for the eighth time (so that you can deflect again).
take actual corrective action.
What action would you have me take, sire?
I've not "been posting russiagate shit". Where do you get off saying that?
lmao, you do know it's in the modlog for anyone to see, right? Literally the latest entry.
Notably, you also think China have been lying the whole time about their COVID response.
you do know it’s in the modlog for anyone to see, right? Literally the latest entry.
What is? What did I say that was "russiagate shit"? Are you talking about the existence of bot/troll farms? Because if you don't think they exist, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
you also think China have been lying the whole time about their COVID response
I never said "the whole time". But if you look at their numbers, that flatline is highly suspect and makes zero sense.
It's the 29th of September, and Stalin saved the world from fascism. :bugs-stalin:
What Stalin and the USSR did with fascists:
:pit: :stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:
Well, you’ll just have to excuse my ignorance, being an American
:peltier-laugh: :lmayo:
Also:
:mao-shining: No investigation, no right to speak!
:soviet-bashful: This is a defining moment in my life, I'd like to thank the :LIB: wrecker, along with everyone else who got me to this point. :mao-wave:
Nope you're not forgiven go and read things before having opinions is a low bar.
It's OK, the website has an emoji for absolutely everything. In this case: :wall-talk:
Yes, why do they and why haven't you done any reading to inform yourself of this history despite a forum of communists telling you the same thing over and over?
This is an easy question to answer but you've already demonstrated bad faith bullshitting so I'm not going to be your teacher until you show some fucking humility.
What do you mean bullshitting?
Bad faith attempts at gotchas, obvious R*dditor brain, and pretending to understand topics you've never read about.
I’ve never once claimed to be an expert on anything.
I didn't say you did. :cope: better, fucking liberal.
In fact, the majority of what I’ve done here on Hexbear is ask questions.
Most of your questions are pissbaby attempts at gotchas, rhetorical. You apparently expect others to not recognize this lol.
And I've already told you I'm not gonna teach you shit until you show a modicum of humility. And no, whining about people shitting in your bad takes is not humility.
I think your ego is way overinflated and YOU are the one who needs some humility. Everyone makes mistakes. Even you.
Yeah I make mistakes all the time but you know what I don't do? Start acting like a bad-faith pissbaby and lying about what others are saying. I also actually try to recognize my ignorance.
Though of course, I haven't been in way dishonest with you and you're just trying to deflect, yet again. Stop changing the subject :LIB:.
Like what, specifically? Can you point me to some comment I made that was this way? I honestly have no clue what you’re talking about. If what I’m doing is being interpreted that way, then I apologize, because that is never my intention.
I already told you that many were rhetorical questions. I need to spell it out for you? You really want to go with the rhetoric of, "I just can't figure it out?" Because I believe you absolutely can figure it out but are choosing to argue rather than do the necessary self-crit.
I'd be happy to show you a few examples if you admit you are truly incapable of reviewing your own comments for shitty rhetorical questions that aren't actually addressing what I said, but deflecting / attempting a "gotcha". But I'd rather you went and did it yourself, since you have repeatedly acted in bad faith and this would be an example of you putting in the basic work of being a humble person. I am in no way interested in fetching an example for you just for you to whine some more rather than acknowledge being shitty.
Like what, specifically?
Like I keep saying, you don't even know the different basic senses of the word communism. This, despite calling yourself an ancom, lol. And virtually every attempt at a comeback reveals new ignorance. Rather than me listing them, how about you go back to all this shit you've deflected and actually respond? Remember, I'm not your teacher and you have yet to demonstrate good faith.
I’ve read quite a lot, actually.
Just not about the things you keep trying to discuss and dunk on people with.
Obviously nobody can read everything, even everything that folks like yourself may consider “basic”. There really is just too much material out there.
More bad faith coping. I've been very clear that the problem is you keeping forming and sharing strong opinions about topics you don't understand. You're now whining as if I've expected you to have read everything on the planet. That is a dishonest reaction, mischaracterizing the nature of my point so that you can save that fragile ego from some self-crit. You would avoid these kinds of situations if you eliminated the tendency of speaking and dunking in ignorance, assuming you never feel comfortable admitting to specific errors in a conversation.
That’s one of the reasons I was so happy to see a place like Hexbear on the web, where leftists could talk to one another and learn from each other. But that’s not what I’ve found here. I’ve found a lot of defensive/confrontational people who are off-putting instead of welcoming.
You cannot ask me or anyone else to believe that you're just here to learn. You are not simply asking questions from a place of humility, you're trying to dunk. And when presented with this face, you're whining even more and pretending you didn't, asking for receipts like you're a baby who can't remember or read their own words. In reality, we're just exploring how low you're willing to go to protect your ego, how many fractal excuses you can make to avoid admitting you had some shitty takes based in R*dditor ignorance.
Actually, you said I was being arrogant, I believe. Which implies that you think that I think I know what I’m talking about. I’m always going to be the first to say that I may not know what I’m talking about. Always.
You don't need to come up with these little fictions about what's implied, I've told you exactly what you being arrogant means. You're presenting strong opinions about a topic you've never read. You are choosing to make shit up rather than contend with my very clear criticism. In case you need it spelled out, making shit up about what others are saying is lying.
Maybe you’ve just run into too many ACTUAL arrogant people in your life and you’re applying that to just everyone new you meet? I don’t know.
More coping and excuses for your mistakes. The idea that you straw manned me could never actually enter your mind, right? Better make up some more stories!
Actually, they’re not. But if you’re interpreting them that way, then I suppose you need to make an adjustment?
Actually, they are. It would be in-character for you to not know when you're asking rhetorical questions, though. Or, better, to pretend to not know what one is because it's been used to criticize you.
Here's a cool one: "Why aren’t these energy generators nationalized? I thought this was a communist country??"
Oh and another: "You know why the left isn’t as popular as other philosophies, right? People like you."
i.e. your pissbaby shit you use to avoid criticism. You just can't help yourself, either - you even tried to make this criticism of you a criticism of me, yet again. Then you act surprised when people think you act in bad faith.
Like I’ve said, multiple times now, I’ve never claimed to be an expert on anything. I am often wrong. What else do you want from me?
I've told you exactly what humility looks like in this context. You do not need to pretend that I've implied you need to be an expert on anything. That is another example of acting in bad faith.
Where have I lied about anyone? Can you please point this out to me? Because I honestly have no clue what you’re talking about here.
I called it out when you did it. You deflected. Go revisit those times and list them, attempt to explain them. Then I will respond to that.
Me too! That’s why I ask questions!
The most hilariously ignorant point you made could be answered in ten minutes of googling after scores of people told you you were wrong. You've instead spent over a day writing replies rather than becoming informed. You've also doubled down on deflection and self-pity rather than doing any self-crit for why everyone is shitting on you - and thus moving on so that people will think you're acting in good faith. Such curiosity!
I’m not trying to change the subject. I’m just addressing the things you’re saying in your comments.
Lashing out like a child with, "I'm rubber, you're glue" is not addressing the things I'm saying. It's deflecting from the criticism.
What would you like to discuss, specifically?
What are the relevant senses of the word, "communism" that would lead others to make fun of you for criticizing China as not being communist despite being run by the Chinese Communist Party?
Explain the answer to me and cite your sources. It will take you just a few minutes if you know how to use a search engine and are actually curious.
This is exhausting.
It would be a lot easier if you just directly addressed what people say to you.
No, I honestly can’t figure it out. I’m sorry, but I really can’t. None of the questions that I have asked, in my intention or opinion, have been rhetorical.
Then you don't know what a rhetorical question is and I presumably now have to fucking teach you that if I want to have a "normal conversation" with you. Personally, I refuse to believe that you can't figure it out, but I guess we have to do this song and dance - or I can just start writing you off, which I will be doing soon if you continue this shit. A rhetorical question is one in which you are not actually asking for an answer, but suggesting something through a question. I'm not being psychoanalytical here, it's a common way of speaking and it's obvious.
Here's one: “You know why the left isn’t as popular as other philosophies, right? People like you.”
You are not actually asking them to enumerate why the left isn't as popular as other "philosophies" (fucking lol). You answer your question yourself, it could not be more fucking obvious. Now that you have learned information taught to fifth graders - or, more accurately, have been forced to contend with a bad habit that you'd rather not honestly deal with - you can acknowledge this, correct? I won't hold my breath.
But instead you personally attack me as if I’m on the same level as you and “should know better”. I don’t know better, ok? I don’t know better. I’m just trying here. I’m trying, and all I’m getting is shit on and insulted.
I've stated exactly what you need to do to demonstrate good faith and humility and you've repeatedly ignored it and deflected and made up stories about things I didn't ask for and how ridiculous I am for suggesting it. I've had numerous bad faith interactions with you where, rather than actually try to understand what is happening, you just fight and push back and make excuses. No matter how many times you say, "no I'm a good boy I didn't mean it, honest", you will have to deal with the fact that you've acted like a pissbaby and that yes, you should fucking know better, or more accurately, be able to acknowledge it when it's pointed out to you five, ten, fifteen, twenty times by other people you claim to be associated with.
Tell me, specifically, what I am incorrect about.
I have done so repeatedly, beginning with your equivocation on communism. It's not my fault that you deflected and forgot. Go look it up and tell me. I shouldn't have to organize this conversation, you should be able to honestly contend with what people say when they say it.
Stop insulting me personally, and just tell me what you think I’m wrong about!
You will continue to get berated so long as you act like a pissbaby.
I would 100% admit to EVERY error I’ve ever made, especially if the error was specifically pointed out to me so that I could change! This is exhausting.
Except you literally did the exact opposite at every step in this conversation where you should have. You did it with me, you did it with everyone else. When I say you lied about something or deflected, that's you avoiding admitting an error. It's a coping mechanism. Deal with that shit and stop making excuses. You have acknowledged exactly zero errors in this back-and-forth. You haven't even done the typical ego-serving thing of admitting to one error and denying the general sense of making serial errors as a matter of a deeper problem (yet), which would usually come next. This is all despite you repeatedly telling little stories to avoid what I say, dropping absurd little straw men/rhetorical questions, and generally being full of shit on topic where you'd like to fling shit at others.
[A series of asinine questions feigning incompetence]
I have been very clear and specific in my criticisms. If you are honestly confused, well fuck that sucks for you you made your own fucking bed and have to sleep in it. Maybe stop deflecting shit and you'd remember what we're talking about. I've also made it easy for you by using operational words like "lie", "make shit up", and "straw man".
But honestly, you can figure out these very basic parts of having a conversation yourself. You are a big boy with a browser and a search function and you can do the basic work of remembering criticisms I've repeated to you three or four times.
Example: "Not sure where I straw-manned you. Can you quote that for me? I’ll gladly discuss that with you.". No, that's your job. I was very clear on when this happened. Go find the quote and show it to us, then explain how your response captures my position.
The first one about nationalized energy - I honestly want to know why ANY country would choose not to nationalize their essential services. Do you know why? I’d like to know.
The fact that you couldn't figure out that, "I thought this was a communist country??" is the rhetorical question is pretty great. Keep posting your Ls, 40-year-old-who-doesn't-know-what-a-rhetorical-question-is. Pretty funny that you chose basic conversational incompetence as your general "out".
The second one - sure, maybe you can consider that rhetorical, but I answered it myself. It’s more a “figure of speech” than an actual rhetorical question. It’s just a more creative way of saying “leftist thought isn’t catching on because apparently there are many leftist assholes”.
It is a rhetorical question full-stop, and obviously so. Look at how you deny the obvious and squirm and torture yourself to avoid acknowledging something so trivial. You will clearly not be satisfied until I teach you remedial fucking English, dying on this hill lest someone else be correct that you, gasp, asked rhetorical questions.
Here's an easy way for you or any 10-year-old to know if a question is rhetorical: does it expect an actual, direct answer? If no, it's rhetorical. Gold star. Pizza party if you get five of them right.
I don’t have the energy. Sorry, but I don’t. This is fucking exhausting.
Great, so you tired yourself out by acting in bad faith so long that you've forgotten what anyone is talking about, all you can do is make knee-jerk claims like, "no you do it too probably" and "what straw men?" as if I hadn't specifically told you. I am not going to pick up that slack for you, so you can fuck off if you're not going to.
I really thought that this was a community where we could have discussions. I didn’t realize I had to major in Marxism to participate in this website.
Majoring in Marxism is when you spend 10 minutes learning the senses of a word using Google.
Look at this melodramatic pissbaby response that amounts to, you guessed it: a fucking straw man. Textbook example. Contend with this realization at your leisure, or, as seems to be the case, by deflecting from it and forgetting what I'm talking about.
Ok, let’s take the very definition of the word “Communism”:
There's only one definition? Interesting. Pretty sure I said "senses". If you don't know what I mean by that, you can feel free to ask, but I didn't know that "senses of a word" was a particularly academic term.
Last time I looked at China, they had billionaires. Last time I looked at China, the Means of Production were controlled by those billionaires. Last time I looked at China, they had social classes, money, and a huge state apparatus.
Hey look you made the same error again. You seem proud of it, lol.
Sorry, no cigar. You can do it, though, I believe in you! Keep reading! Keep thinking about the question of what things get called communist!
Am I incorrect on any of those points?
You're committing the fallacy of equivocation because you don't know the ways in which the term is used beyond the one sense you're familiar with. In this ignorance, you've decided that only that sense really exists so there is a contradiction. The idea that language has been used in other ways is somehow less plausible to you than those sneaky commie Asiatics knowing more about this than you do.
lol buddy I'm laughing at you, hard to be calmer than having a hearty chuckle at the :LIB: that thinks they're a leftist and is so tied up in their own ego that they can't admit they asked rhetorical questions.
It wasn't a figure of speech either, lol. Keep taking those Ls on gradeschool English, lib.
You wouldn't dig these holes if you were honest early and often. A tip for your mental health in the future, because it probably doesn't feel good to commit to illiteracy rather than admit fault.
In fact, the majority of what I’ve done here on Hexbear is ask questions.
Please repeat after me: JAQing off is not a virtue. Don't show up places and ask leading, bullshit questions all over the place, then claim you didn't do anything.
In this post, I wish to acknowledge two walls:
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The German Democratic Republic's Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart.
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:wall-talk:
AFPR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Parker-Rhodes ??
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You acknowledge your ignorance, yet you don't make any attempts to remedy that? And you expect to be taken seriously?
You are presented with factual information and then throw a temper tantrum and cover your eyes.
they appear to be state-owned companies that compete against each other in a market
https://energyiceberg.com/state-owned-power-utilities/
Do you know how difficult it would take to set up and maintain a command economy for 1.4 Billion people that also has to deal with the stupidity and fickleness of a global capitalist hegemony?
China's GDP per capita is still only 2/3rds of what the Soviet Union achieved and it's already captured a massive number of global industries and labor-saving techniques used by global capital.
The late-Soviet command economy could not overcome global capitalism, there's no reason why the Chinese should adopt it long term. The current economic structure is rooted in the early Soviet NEP and theoretical proposals by Bukharin and will be followed until economic planning, production, distribution and exchange can be properly denominated in labor hours. Which is not an easy task. The hybrid system used by the Soviets of attempting to approximate labor-time with currency produced its own problems. Black markets and contradictions were the cancer that killed the Soviet Union and it's not worth repeating their mistakes. 70 years of drastically reduced exploitation, happy lives, and the liquidation of the bourgeoisie class is not preferable to a permanently sustainable economic model that can withstand seige and encirclement by global capitalism.
The late-Soviet command economy could not overcome global capitalism, there’s no reason why the Chinese should adopt it long term. The current economic structure is rooted in the early Soviet NEP and theoretical proposals by Bukharin and will be followed until economic planning, production, distribution and exchange can be properly denominated in labor hours. Which is not an easy task. The hybrid system used by the Soviets of attempting to approximate labor-time with currency produced its own problems. Black markets and contradictions were the cancer that killed the Soviet Union and it’s not worth repeating their mistakes. 70 years of drastically reduced exploitation, happy lives, and the liquidation of the bourgeoisie class is not preferable to a permanently sustainable economic model that can withstand seige and encirclement by global capitalism.
Do you have any leftist reading recommendations on Soviet planning (and its failures)?
This is a communist community so you might want to go read about what that is and why countries have been called communist before getting the idea that you aren't a dumbfuck on this topic at the moment.
I am a communist. I am an anarcho-communist/communalist. I am anti-authoritarian.
I am an anarcho-communist/communalist
Maybe get that one straight and pick one before bragging about it lol.
"Authoritarian" is a meaningless buzzword. On behalf of everyone here I am begging you to read before posting.
I have read quite a lot, actually. That's how I know what I like and what I don't like, and how I have chosen an-com/communalism as my preferred philosophy.
lol you need to go do reading this isn't like picking out a car color.
:wojak-nooo: noooooooo anarcho-communism and communalism are the same thing (actually something he said)
Actually, it is. It’s exactly that. And it should be. Because we’re never going to get the masses on our side without it being easy to understand.
Pack it up folks, Marxism is cancelled.
I think you're a liberal, and your motivations are deeply confused.
instead of asking rhetorical questions like this a good faith person would explain what they are here for and argue why what they are doing serves that purpose. "What do you think my motivations are? What do you think my end-goal of coming here is?" Is trolling dude. No one is going to know your "true" internal motivations. It's all based on how you actually present yourself.
Yeah I gotchu. Writing this post is better than what you were doing here in this thread. Rhetorical questions often come off as being a troll. Especially when they're used a lot. In this post you just said your ideas and explained why you believed them. This to me anyway feels very genuine. I hope you'll stick around :heart-sickle:
Also don't feel too discouraged by people being rude online. People are so much nicer when talking to people in real life and much more patient with them. It's important to remember how dehumanizing a username is compared to a real breathing person in front of them. I definitely think you have a point about people jumping to their guns to quick though. (Me included) Have a nice day man!
Thanks man. I appreciate it. It's exhausting trying to defend myself. I guess I just have to get used to the culture here or something. I wish it wasn't so toxic.
It is easy to understand, you simply haven't tried - but you still want to have an opinion about it so you pretend that you don't need to.
You :cope: by lying your ass off. You're not unique in this. Overcome your insecurity and you'll be able to engage in good faith.
Your reply to me was a lie, an obvious straw man. You are probably used to getting away with shit but let me be clear that it's disrespectful via its dishonesty.
Which reply? I've been replying to so many people here, it's getting confusing.
For the record, I have been 100% honest here, as far as I know. So, please - help me out here.
Thanks.
I know for a fact that you have not been 100% honest because I've seen you blatantly deflect from what I criticize, pull out the dumbest tu quoques I've seen, and misrepresent me.
Maybe you think of yourself as being honest and good and cool so why could these damn people be so mean!? But your reactions are dishonest and I've pointed them out as they happen, so don't give me that shit. I've told you where they are and you can either deal with them (what you keep avoiding doing, proving my point) or fuck off.
Me helping you out begins with you demonstrating the humility of acknowledging such errors and cutting that shit because you have not stopped doing it.
Maybe if you could point out where I've done it, specifically, it could help me to recognize my errors - or help me to explain your misunderstanding of my intentions?
I'm not going to comb through the thousand comments that have happened today. But if you've got something in mind, that would be great. Thanks.
I was very clear when I called them out at the time and you deflected. I will not be fetching them for you.
If this seems unfair to you, go pound sand.
Might be the play? If enough stink is raised maybe they will decide to take control back. Also it might be “nationalised” but not under federal control so subject to heavy provincial corruption.
I invite anyone reading this to open the Modlog and search for OP's username.
civil conversation
tells me I, personally, am the reason people think communists are assholes
:wall-talk:
