Depends on the language to be honest. I believe there's a strategic purpose to keeping chapo from becoming a socialist-only space in that heavy policing of the community will eliminate the ability to reopen the lib to left pipeline. However, I do think that we should be making a conscious effort with certain things, generally, like this particular word. It is leveled at a lot of trans and furry people for no reason other than an in-group deciding they want to marginalise the interests or exposure of these people because it would be bad for their "image". I absolutely can't stand that attitude to people and oppose it. It's a quick, sharp and nasty means of dominant groups in a social crowd enforcing their will on the out-group for nothing other than deeming their behaviour to be embarrassing.
Which language in particular are you talking about? I'm up for a conversation about it, but I do think I'd oppose certain things.
Oh I just mean conscientiously I avoid using language as an insult like cuck or simp or soy boy, even ironically, because the right's trying to make that shit bad. There ain't nothing wrong with being a cuck. I know there are some spaces that ban the word stupid, which is ill-considered in my opinion, but I definitely think it's bad to use their insults as our insults.
I don't like these words either much. It's definitely something socialists should be conscious of, but also, the people in this space should be taught how strategically playing into certain things is beneficial for our ability to be a space that appeals to those groups and then radicalises them leftwards.
I completely agree on not banning ableism too, even though I strongly dislike ableism. I don't think it's a battle that can be fought or won in society for a decade, in much the same way trans people had to wait for their time to come in order for their battle to really start raging, and over-policing is a method socialist communities are simply alienating the workers from their spaces.
We need to not alienate the workers. We need to attract them and then radicalise them.
I mean, I do think there are certain terms that are ableist that we should not use that are not just impolite. I refuse to say the r-word, for example, and the term cripple isn't great when used as a noun. In general I'm bothered by a focus on intelligence as being a driver for validity, and I think we would be good to shy away from that.
I prefer education over banning it. But honestly I don't think workers are as bad about this as so-called educated leftists tend to be. My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.
In real life maybe but there were so many struggle sessions on the subreddit where telling people not to use it was the entire reason the left is losing
There's been an edgy resurgence of it, and I don't know why. It did fade for a time, but it's come back. It feels to me like sort of a culture war thing.
Yeah I call people out on r-word too, but while I actively try to police myself on things like "dumb" and "stupid" (badly, I'm not perfect) I see it as a battle that will alienate when we need to be throwing our doors open.
It's definitely a battle that needs to be fought, but certain spaces like this one should be intentionally aiming for a zone that still attracts the imperfect. The spaces that are socialist-only that do police these words will bring people towards being anti-ableist as they move through the pipeline.
My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.
I think this is a case of having the right kind of person speaking in the right kind of ways to reach this kind of group of people. You need people that walk the walk in those crowds in order to reach them, when you have that it's incredibly easy to get the message through.
We really do need a word for someone who seems to be a congenital awful idea generator (Regardless of intelligence or learning disability), and Stupid despite its unfortunate past seems to work for that until a better one comes up that doesn't sound like a Shakspearean insult.
I agree, but my goal is to find a word or phrase to identify why their ideas suck without it being based on their intelligence or cognitive abilities. Often selfish or shitty is what I go to, but it doesn't encapsulate things well.
Cause the point is to hurt the Chud, and the Chud's not read The Illiad. I need something that's sharp and immediate. Shithead is ok, but not quite insulting enough.
Oh my god he so is! Let's go take back my brother's wife, who may have left of her own accord, even if it means a generation of war. Then let's go ahead and kill my daughter so that we can have good winds for our voyage to the aforementioned protracted war. And now let's kidnap this girl who is the daughter of a priest of Apollo and I'll rape her all the time, because there's no way that could go poorly. Oh, I had to give her back to her father to stop Apollo from killing everyone with a plague? Better take Achilles' rape slave then, there's no way he'll get pissed off about that. Oh wait, he stopped fighting in this useless fucking war and now the Trojans are winning all of a sudden? Whoops, better convince Patroclus to don Achilles' armor to make the Trojans afraid (that might actually have been Odysseus' idea, it's been a while since I read the Iliad). Oh, Patroclus is dead and Achilles has gone mad with grief and is dragging Hektor's body around behind his chariot? Fucking oops.
And then at the end Agamemnon goes home and gets wrapped in a curtain and stabbed to death by his pissed-off wife who I think was also cheating on him, because who the fuck wouldn't when your dumbass husband goes to war for ten years for basically no reason?
Do real life people actually use the Chad/simp/soyboy lingo outside of reddit or 4chan? Because if so I think I might have just lost even more faith in humanity. As an atheist, Jesus please take the wheel!
In South Africa parties try use local internet lingo to try appeal to the youth. The worst example has to be when the so called "left wing" party (they're really not, that's another story) tried to explain Marxist theory though WhatsApp lingo like "blue ticks" (WhatsApp puts 2 blue ticks next to a message that has been read) and shit. Real condescending hours there
Read this if you want to know about the shitshow that is South African politics:
https://ewn.co.za/2020/08/19/it-s-anti-white-blm-campaign-shows-sharp-differences-in-parly
Freedom front plus is the party that wants apartheid back so no surprise there. They have been emboldened by the US op around white farm murders, which got them 5% of the vote last time. The EFF says a lot of good things, but their actions reveal their true intentions, I mean this is a massive fuck up: https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-04-15-eff-councillors-against-33-solidarity-fund-contribution/
people wonder why leftists cant get traction. we make everything an extreme politcal opinion. how tf can we radicalize people when we are so far removed from them. calling cringe a psuedo fascist word is not good in building rapport and only alienates
Ima be honest i came across as kind of a dick. I think im just annoyed about an overall trend of the left being super exclusive and making innocuous things “cancellable” or problematic in a way that can alienate libs/apolitical who are potential radicals.
I get that. I do think it's valuable on the left to think about our language, because it is often indicative of toxic mindsets we've inherited. That's not a conversation I'd have with someone as they're becoming more comfortable with leftism overall.
I always assume good faith first. It's only when someone doubles down or gets defensive that I abandon any pretext. If I see someone use a slur, I'll let them know that it is one. If they get annoyed, then they're probably a dick.
I feel like we should stop using the language of the right, personally, but that seems to be a controversial topic around these here parts.
Depends on the language to be honest. I believe there's a strategic purpose to keeping chapo from becoming a socialist-only space in that heavy policing of the community will eliminate the ability to reopen the lib to left pipeline. However, I do think that we should be making a conscious effort with certain things, generally, like this particular word. It is leveled at a lot of trans and furry people for no reason other than an in-group deciding they want to marginalise the interests or exposure of these people because it would be bad for their "image". I absolutely can't stand that attitude to people and oppose it. It's a quick, sharp and nasty means of dominant groups in a social crowd enforcing their will on the out-group for nothing other than deeming their behaviour to be embarrassing.
Which language in particular are you talking about? I'm up for a conversation about it, but I do think I'd oppose certain things.
Oh I just mean conscientiously I avoid using language as an insult like cuck or simp or soy boy, even ironically, because the right's trying to make that shit bad. There ain't nothing wrong with being a cuck. I know there are some spaces that ban the word stupid, which is ill-considered in my opinion, but I definitely think it's bad to use their insults as our insults.
I don't like these words either much. It's definitely something socialists should be conscious of, but also, the people in this space should be taught how strategically playing into certain things is beneficial for our ability to be a space that appeals to those groups and then radicalises them leftwards.
I completely agree on not banning ableism too, even though I strongly dislike ableism. I don't think it's a battle that can be fought or won in society for a decade, in much the same way trans people had to wait for their time to come in order for their battle to really start raging, and over-policing is a method socialist communities are simply alienating the workers from their spaces.
We need to not alienate the workers. We need to attract them and then radicalise them.
I mean, I do think there are certain terms that are ableist that we should not use that are not just impolite. I refuse to say the r-word, for example, and the term cripple isn't great when used as a noun. In general I'm bothered by a focus on intelligence as being a driver for validity, and I think we would be good to shy away from that.
I prefer education over banning it. But honestly I don't think workers are as bad about this as so-called educated leftists tend to be. My brother was more successful convincing his steel mill coworkers to not call gay guys the f-word than I have been telling straight cis leftists to stop saying the r-word, honestly.
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In real life maybe but there were so many struggle sessions on the subreddit where telling people not to use it was the entire reason the left is losing
There's been an edgy resurgence of it, and I don't know why. It did fade for a time, but it's come back. It feels to me like sort of a culture war thing.
Yeah I call people out on r-word too, but while I actively try to police myself on things like "dumb" and "stupid" (badly, I'm not perfect) I see it as a battle that will alienate when we need to be throwing our doors open.
It's definitely a battle that needs to be fought, but certain spaces like this one should be intentionally aiming for a zone that still attracts the imperfect. The spaces that are socialist-only that do police these words will bring people towards being anti-ableist as they move through the pipeline.
I think this is a case of having the right kind of person speaking in the right kind of ways to reach this kind of group of people. You need people that walk the walk in those crowds in order to reach them, when you have that it's incredibly easy to get the message through.
We really do need a word for someone who seems to be a congenital awful idea generator (Regardless of intelligence or learning disability), and Stupid despite its unfortunate past seems to work for that until a better one comes up that doesn't sound like a Shakspearean insult.
I agree, but my goal is to find a word or phrase to identify why their ideas suck without it being based on their intelligence or cognitive abilities. Often selfish or shitty is what I go to, but it doesn't encapsulate things well.
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shit head
why not use the more verbose version? it's kinda funny and more descriptive than stupid.
Cause the point is to hurt the Chud, and the Chud's not read The Illiad. I need something that's sharp and immediate. Shithead is ok, but not quite insulting enough.
does, "congenital awful idea generator" come from the illiad?
Basically King Agamemnon.
Oh my god he so is! Let's go take back my brother's wife, who may have left of her own accord, even if it means a generation of war. Then let's go ahead and kill my daughter so that we can have good winds for our voyage to the aforementioned protracted war. And now let's kidnap this girl who is the daughter of a priest of Apollo and I'll rape her all the time, because there's no way that could go poorly. Oh, I had to give her back to her father to stop Apollo from killing everyone with a plague? Better take Achilles' rape slave then, there's no way he'll get pissed off about that. Oh wait, he stopped fighting in this useless fucking war and now the Trojans are winning all of a sudden? Whoops, better convince Patroclus to don Achilles' armor to make the Trojans afraid (that might actually have been Odysseus' idea, it's been a while since I read the Iliad). Oh, Patroclus is dead and Achilles has gone mad with grief and is dragging Hektor's body around behind his chariot? Fucking oops.
And then at the end Agamemnon goes home and gets wrapped in a curtain and stabbed to death by his pissed-off wife who I think was also cheating on him, because who the fuck wouldn't when your dumbass husband goes to war for ten years for basically no reason?
ok, so you called them stupid, now what.
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Do real life people actually use the Chad/simp/soyboy lingo outside of reddit or 4chan? Because if so I think I might have just lost even more faith in humanity. As an atheist, Jesus please take the wheel!
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I mean I got out of highschool 2 years ago now and the big ones were "triggered", "cringe" and shit like that back then
I feel like I don't need to tell you this, but don't watch Paul Joseph Watson.
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Scotty from marketing being called a simp? Seriously? :che-smile: :che-smile: :che-smile:
Wtf has the world come to, the only thing Elon is right about is that we do live in a simulation
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In South Africa parties try use local internet lingo to try appeal to the youth. The worst example has to be when the so called "left wing" party (they're really not, that's another story) tried to explain Marxist theory though WhatsApp lingo like "blue ticks" (WhatsApp puts 2 blue ticks next to a message that has been read) and shit. Real condescending hours there
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Read this if you want to know about the shitshow that is South African politics: https://ewn.co.za/2020/08/19/it-s-anti-white-blm-campaign-shows-sharp-differences-in-parly
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Freedom front plus is the party that wants apartheid back so no surprise there. They have been emboldened by the US op around white farm murders, which got them 5% of the vote last time. The EFF says a lot of good things, but their actions reveal their true intentions, I mean this is a massive fuck up: https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-04-15-eff-councillors-against-33-solidarity-fund-contribution/
Alright, now I wanna know what exactly they said
I can't find the exact thing, but here's some similar moments: https://youtu.be/3aBXTDvC5C8
cringe is not right wing it’s totally neutral. everyone online uses cringe
Nothing is totally neutral. Everything originated somewhere, and cringe is based on shame and bullying.
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Shame certainly is, because they're all weird about tradition and honor and bullshit like that.
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That sounds like conservatives still
so r/cringe was just about helping people?
people wonder why leftists cant get traction. we make everything an extreme politcal opinion. how tf can we radicalize people when we are so far removed from them. calling cringe a psuedo fascist word is not good in building rapport and only alienates
Am I talking to a bunch of mill workers here? I thought we were having a discussion, bro.
Ima be honest i came across as kind of a dick. I think im just annoyed about an overall trend of the left being super exclusive and making innocuous things “cancellable” or problematic in a way that can alienate libs/apolitical who are potential radicals.
I get that. I do think it's valuable on the left to think about our language, because it is often indicative of toxic mindsets we've inherited. That's not a conversation I'd have with someone as they're becoming more comfortable with leftism overall.
I can totally get behind that actually. as long as we allow for misteps for those who are learning in good faith i think thats totally reasonable
I always assume good faith first. It's only when someone doubles down or gets defensive that I abandon any pretext. If I see someone use a slur, I'll let them know that it is one. If they get annoyed, then they're probably a dick.
Are you trying to censor me
I'm not trying.
why must the gays keep oppressing us, the straights
Because it's blazing hot
ok fair, can't deny that even as a straight man I have a thing for being dominated by gay men
Aw c'mon man don't play with my heart like that
Revenge time motherfucker
/s
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wha- bwuh- but you can't that's not fair
:angery: