https://twitter.com/CPUSA_LA/status/1455272804220293126
https://www.cpusa.org/article/an-upsurge-worth-fighting-for/
"patriotic socialism"....is this the result of radlibs pushing that the fuck'n US Military is a prime example of "socialism" :amerikkka:
this is what Joe Sims wrote in 2014 lol
https://www.cpusa.org/article/some-thoughts-on-patriotism-the-national-question-and-the-leninist-tradition/
"Isn’t it this majority that has woven the multi-racial multi-ethnic fabric that binds the still emerging U.S. nation? And shouldn’t we take pride in its accomplishments and victories? Is there not a pride of class and people that we can take heart in, helping restore our faith, providing a sense of optimism and strength as we continue the revolutionary and democratic struggle to perfect this still imperfect union? Yes, there is a such a thing as working-class patriotism and it is our duty to uphold and defend it while distinguishing it from the false patriotism of the ruling class and particularly its extreme right. I am discussing here the substance of the matter of patriotism.
Do U.S. communists not love their country? And the answer here (and for the communist and working-class parties in each nation) is unequivocally yes And it is on this basis of this love for family, neighborhood, co-workers, friends, comrades, and class that we fight. In fact, it is the basis for our working-class internationalism.
It was particularly disturbing for this writer to see “No room for patriotism’s” arguments clothed in what is called “Marxism-Leninism.” To me, this is a Marxism-Leninism that is not in our tradition"
Is he trolling? Or is the CPUSA leadership kept?
Eh I mean seven years is a lot of room for ideological development.
is it development or reversion?
how does "Bill of Rights socialism" functionally differ from "socialist patriotism?"
I think using the language of a legitimately progressive document that just about every American can at least relate to and draping yourself in the American flag are at the very least a big difference in degree. The tenth point in the program is reparations, which is very much not a tailist policy.
Who has merely "draped themselves in the American flag"? It is the "Communist Party of the USA" right? And not the Communist Party of some as-of-yet unformed or abstract polity?
Joe Sims repeating the "Trump Derangement Syndrome" line and saying that the Biden administration is what has "facilitated" the recent strike wave are definitely tailist
What name should they be using? The Communist Party of Unceded Native Land?
I don't know what you're talking about with the first part and if you're referencing the article I think you are for the second part, that's uncharitable. I think the stance about the Biden cabinet is definitely unfounded optimism but he clearly outlines that class struggle is what has facilitated the strike wave.
"socialist patriotism" and "Bill of Rights socialism" mean the same thing
Native tribes are each & among them fighting to acquire ancestral lands & rightful territory, and they have been for generations
CPUSA's motto 70 years ago was "Communism is 20th century Americanism"
And no, Joe Sims says explicitly that it's Biden who has provided some "Era of Good Feeling" or something
"One of the reasons the strikes are taking place is that workers feel like they can win. It’s created an atmosphere where labor feels that the administration has their back"
Was Joe Sims wrong in 2014 or is he wrong now?
“socialist patriotism” and “Bill of Rights socialism” mean the same thing
No they don't.
Native tribes are each & among them fighting to acquire ancestral lands & rightful territory, and they have been for generations
Ok that doesn't answer the question.
CPUSA’s motto 70 years ago was “Communism is 20th century Americanism”
70 years ago.
And no, Joe Sims says explicitly that it’s Biden who has provided some “Era of Good Feeling” or something
“One of the reasons the strikes are taking place is that workers feel like they can win. It’s created an atmosphere where labor feels that the administration has their back”
Yeah I think I'd disagree with that, but it's not like it's unambiguously false.
Was Joe Sims wrong in 2014 or is he wrong now?
He was wrong in 2014, that's what the word "development" means.
Yes they do.
I don't remember you asking a non-rhetorical or earnest question.
Yes, and it holds true today. Just as Sims says last year and 7 years ago.
Yes, it's unambiguously false. It is the pandemic & mass backlash against faulty public health & corporate policy since the start of it
But there is nothing about "development" here, you're just throwing that in there
Joe Sims was correct in 2014, and the nonsense about Trump has only muddied the waters
I don’t remember you asking a non-rhetorical or earnest question.
Yes I suspect that you frequently discard anything that contradicts your dumb bullshit.
Yes, it’s unambiguously false. It is the pandemic & mass backlash against faulty public health & corporate policy since the start of it
Lol you watch Jimmy Dore and think that people are striking over vaccine mandates.
But there is nothing about “development” here, you’re just throwing that in there
https://hexbear.net/post/150561/comment/1819716
Joe Sims was correct in 2014, and the nonsense about Trump has only muddied the waters
Lmao so you're a patriotic socialism guy. Have fun with your stupid bullshit.
So you didn't ask a question
You don't watch Jimmy Dore and take it on faith that he's someone evil
Joe Sims is a "patriotic socialism" guy too. That's what "Bill of Rights socialism" is
You think that union guys switching from Democrat to Republican is a sign of class consciousness. You are an examplar of Jimmy Dore's audience.
I didn't say it's the most advanced section of class consciousness among workers, I said that there is a class struggle ongoing whether they're a part of a Communist Party or not
they're not reduced to mindless rabble just because they recognize petty bourgeois Democrats & rad libs as such. I would say it's not a positive tactical or strategic intention of the right, it's thus far more of a failure of progressive & workers' movements to seize on those shifts, which are objective & tied to material deterioration in those areas, not to idealist partisan disputes
Ok let me know how your unite with conservatives because liberals are stinky project goes.
it's just what Marx advocated... you know, workers' struggle?
allying with liberals stopped being the strategy in like 1849 lol
Different people growing up in different environments are going to try different things to attract and mobilize their neighbors into their nascent movements. And it does help if you see them as experimenting unsuccessfully, rather than Fed-pilling yourself into believing every :LIB:-raised leftist convert trying to play a particular rhetorical angle to galvanize support is a special agent run out of Langley.
Worth taking an autopsy on why this particular effort turned sour. But it just gets obnoxious when everyone and everything is declared an OP.
I literally don't think this is an op, the social patriotism thing has the ambition of summarizing what the post-left is all about vis a vis what they (and when I say they I mean the same three people on twitter) deem is the "mainstream left" which is already subscribed to a skewed vision of who controls the conversation regarding left-wing politics in the US (it's not breadtube). If you're really interested in some sort of post-mortem of the social patriotism thing even though it never gained a single bit of traction anywhere except a handful of twitter spheres, Sean has a good succint thread on it
I mean... I absolutely have done blockwalking and I don't know how true this statement is.
The old "Converts make the best zealots" line is as true for migrants as sectarians. First and second generation hispanic and asian families can be some of the most nakedly patriotic. Migrants routinely drape themselves in the flag to pass as locals. Anyone working independent contracting or operating small businesses will try to stand out as exceptionally patriotic to avoid harassment and cultivate a local clientele. Lots of these communities are filled with refugees from America's last war - Cubans down in Miami, Vietnamese folks in Texas and California, Iraqis and Somalis and Afghanistani ex-pats showing up in the Midwest - and either explicitly or implicitly had to show loyalty to get on the last plane out. They've already been filtered.
Similarly, I know a few black families that take particular pride in their military memberships. I also see echoes of nationalist sentiment in college fandom, local sports fandom, and other regional identity politics. Houstonians of all stripes love their rodeo, New Orleans folks love their Creole culture, everyone in New Mexico tries to claim their part Native, etc.
I think the dissonance is in trying to bind Socialism (an implicitly anti-American philosophy) with Nationalism. In my experience, disillusion with the existing government presages exploration of leftist political philosophy. Trying to get nationalists on board with an anti-capitalist philosophy is difficult in a capitalist nation. Similarly, trying to get socialists on board with a pro-nationalist message when disgust with Bush-Era nationalism paved the road they traveled to get here is going to cause your base to balk.
The folksy appeal of star-spangled imagery isn't the problem for minorities and migrants. Its pairing a soft-conservative image with a plea for revolutionary change that causes problems.
Joe Sims (the current CPUSA National Committee co-chair who posted this Blog) seemed to agree with "socialist patriotism" in America in 2014
CPUSA is obviously an OP, but even Joe Sims recognizes that effusive jingoism is a concept too alienating for half the working class in a post-trump era. I don't think I'm erring here when I say that what changed is literally just Trump being president.
"But let’s remember what we’re up against: January 6th and Trump’s attempt to overthrow the government. And let’s also recall that they’re organizing: 10,000 Trump supporters rallied in Wellington, Ohio, in June; 15,000 in Perry, Georgia, in September; and several thousands more last weekend at the Des Moines County Fairgrounds."
that's what peter coffin claims, for CPUSA I think it was at least an opportunity to sober up and distance themselves from exhalted patriotism
it's just "socialist patriotism" which is essentially the same thing as "Bill of Rights socialism" as Joe Sims invoked the term just last year
https://cpusa.org/article/marxism-and-the-problem-of-keeping-pace-with-whats-new/
i like watching him talk about history but the more I see how he handles himself he seems really petty/weird
he used to talk about how he hated every communist party he's been in the USA because they all turn into cults but he seems to be falling into the same patterns of behavior as the people he criticized
Is he a youtuber or something? I followed him on twitter no idea he was a guy
Yeah, he's a Youtuber. I liked watching him a few months ago because I've learned A LOT about USA labor history and communism from him but he keeps getting into petty spats with other internet people.
A lot of people don't like him because he's a "NAAAAAZBOL" which I don't really agree with but I can see why people wouldn't like him. He's kind of a revisionist too.....
How is he not a nazbol lol? He wants red brown alliance. Have you seen the state of rural America? I have. It's not so pretty. Maupin's the sort to say "No war but class war" which from looking at rural America isn't the only issue at hand. Anyone who peddles "patriotic socialism" in the US is a nazbol.
He's got a small presence. I remember he caught a lot of flak for appearing at a discussion panel which had some NazBols, and later for platforming a TERF from the Communist Party of Britain Marxist-Leninist (not to be confused with the Communist Party of Britain or the Communist Party of Great Britain) and not pushing back on the shitty things she was saying about "transgender ideology."
the Communist Party of Britain Marxist-Leninist (not to be confused with the Communist Party of Britain or the Communist Party of Great Britain)
This is the most leftist shit I've seen today.
