There’s no doubt a key driver behind opposition to the Gaza massacre, especially among normie types, has been the footage from smartphones showing the mass destruction and casualties.
Hypothetically, if the War in Iraq occurred with 2023 smartphone technology, how would this have impacted public opinion?
Would Bush have been re-elected in 2004?
Also, for historians of the war, is there a particular atrocity during the war that has been documented by activists or watchdogs but has limited photographic evidence, that had it been recorded by smartphone, could have single-handedly turned the tide of public opinion?
I think definitely. I know a few people who in the first days of the genocide were very "well it's complicated and the history and it's just too much for me to understand" that now are 100% pro Palestine, and when I ask them why, every single one of them says "I am tired of seeing dead Palestinian children on TikTok it's such a shame what's happening to them." We never saw dead Iraqi children on TikTok because we didn't have TikTok. The propaganda machine can't really excuse the live footage that folks are taking out of Gaza, there's only so much talking past the conflict that you can do when there is easily available video evidence every single day of the genocide.
Yes, Israel and the US is trying to keep a lid on information, but it is extremely hard. In the Iraq war days, the only information came from US-vetted sources, there were basically no journalists with any kind of media access on the Iraqi side and even if they were, they had no means to get the videos out to the general population. That is also why the US can claim very low direct casualties of the early invasion, there is just no way to tell.
Probably, but it should be noted that the Gaza genocide is way, way more brutal than any of the US's direct wars of the 21st century. More kids have been killed in Gaza in a few months than in the whole of the Iraq War.
More kids have been killed in Gaza in a few months than in the whole of the Iraq War
That is fucking absurd to think about.
Death to amerikkka and its allies
The 3100 figure for Iraqi children only counts from 2008 - 2022, skipping the bloodiest years
Over two-thirds of Americans think the US should actively support Israel. A lot of people just have more "nuanced" aka incoherent opinions, like supporting both ceasefires and Israeli military strikes. To most yanks, this is just a complicated war between foreign countries, where Israel are "the good guys who sometimes go too far" (America, however, can only go too far 10+ years in the past)
And consider the context of 9/11. Pro-Palestinian voices tend to have a stronger presence from being shamed less than anti-war voices in Iraq. If Hamas did October 6th with thousands of deaths in the US, I'd bet half the country would be calling to wipe Palestinian blood off the face of earth. Even now, a solid majority of Americans support Israeli warcrimes. When I see polls like this, I have zero faith in the basic morality of your average American:
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Not sure. They literally showed fucking bombs falling on the middle east on live TV during the War in Iraq and the right wing was still like Hoo-Ra about it and being extremely fucking racist and calling for more. It was even policy to have journalists embedded in combat groups. Obviously they were choosy about what they showed, but it's not like we had a huge lack of footage about what was going on over there at the time. I remember seeing videos of tanks shooting and there were graphic violent videos of execution of Iraqis and shit like that.
On the other hand, they only showed those live bombs like once so, maybe.
IDK, maybe i'm doomerpilled but i think most amerikkkans are too racist to really care. Especially when the Propaganda Machine was turned up to 11 and everyone was happy to kill any brown arab looking person just for the crime of looking middle eastern.
no. iraqis are not white, and therefore would have been hated by americans. it all just boils down to
Death to America
Social media isnt doing anything for Palestinians. All the countries supporting Israel are still supporting them and will keep doing that. The land invasion is failing for the same reason Iraq failed, the heroic violent resistance of the people being invaded.
The invasion of Iraq was literally broadcast on every news channel during prime time slots. It was scheduled specifically for that time, to make it as flashy and cool as possible. Americans reveled in the destruction.
So, no.
It wasn't shown from the victims' perspective though. It was just "look how big America's dick is, ooh rah"
I doubt it. People all over the world have smartphones and Americans are still bloodthirsty.
Americans seem slightly less bloodthirsty than in 2003 though. Back then it was completely unthinkable to advocate against war. The two national opinions were kill all Muslims immediately or kill all Muslims gently. Nowadays there seems much more nuance and a lot more difference in opinion, which is good. But I'd say that's more to do with a fraying country with less of a monoculture. I guess smartphones are part of that but people's conditions post 2008 are probably a bigger aspect.
Probably not immediately. YouTube from its inception until about 2010 or so was nothing but videos taken by US soldiers on shitty cell phones with "let the bodies hit the floor" playing as they committed war crimes. One thing that possibly could have had an effect would be more videos leaking that showed the abu graib style shit soldiers got up to.
Not in the slightest. Having lived through the war on Iraq, the pro-nato war jingoism is just as bad if not worse today. Consent for war and xenophobia is much easier to manufacture today, than it was then, since nowadays US tech companies control the attention of a much larger audience.
Twitter would be full the same color revolution atrocity propaganda like it is now, like
SADDAM HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
SADDAM HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
SADDAM HAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION
People living in Xinjiang and journalist visitors, have posted videos and articles for years now refuting zenz's claims of genocide. Muslim countries, that would be burdened with a refugee crisis, all are saying the same, that there is no genocide. None of it has any effect, evidence from a german white supremacist evangelical who doesn't speak chinese gets pushed via british state media organs and western social media, confirming the orientalist / racist biases of their audience.
The propaganda machine is much more efficient today.
No, Americans don't even care about genocide now
A bunch of boomers, Gen Xers and older millennials definitely wouldn't have cared about Iraq twenty years ago even with Twitter or Tik Tok
The Abu Ghraib photos are just as horrific as anything coming out of Gaza now and it didnt change anything
Probably not. Normies will just send smug groypers to any Iraqis posting about it because "trolololol U MAD BRO!?!?"
If smart phones of today AND social media platforms of today existed, maybe public opinion might have turned a bit sooner than it did.
But once you've got the blood machine going, it really doesn't matter what anybody's opinion is. Momentum will take it pretty far.
Smart phone documentation of the photo op "Special Forces Raid Hospital to Rescue Captured Soldier Jessica Lynch" would have blown that bullshit up way sooner.
Shit, it would have been hilarious if I had been recording the Sergent and Lieutenant fumble around trying to unjam a Mk-19 automatic grenade launcher in the dark after me telling them it was stupid fucking idea to try to "hammer it out from the front of the barrel with a cleaning rod". The video is just me jogging farther and farther away from them towards a firefight with the camera pointed back at them waiting for the flash and bang.
The mercs running rampant might have been something that could have actually got some traction though. Wouldn't have stopped the US occupation but it might have made it harder for the mercs to operate. It took years before there was enough international support/produced evidence of what the private contractors were doing.
Bush would have been re-elected, I'm 99% sure. If somebody else got elected, they would have kept the occupation going one way or another.
Also, for historians of the war, is there a particular atrocity during the war that has been documented by activists or watchdogs but has limited photographic evidence, that had it been recorded by smartphone, could have single-handedly turned the tide of public opinion?
I mean, there was the Abu Ghraib prison that the soldiers doing the war crimes were documenting and sharing among themselves that didn't do much to 1)keep the psychos excited and 2) the anti war folks repulsed. Didn't stop anything though.
