Tunnel system in south Lebanon runs hundreds of kms, up to the border and even into Israel; launchers can fire precision-guided missiles from there, then disappear, says Tal Beeri
have to justify the attack on Lebanon somehow
also why don't we have a burning Israeli flag emoji?
You are just accepting the Zionist premise that Israel = Jews, it’s pretty pathetic. Is it “anti-Semitic” when Hezbollah burns the flag of the Zionist entity? No.
Resistance fighters burn the Israeli flag all the time and that’a good and based. Cowardice from the mods and giving into Zionist narratives
Oh so if some Jewish protesters say “from the river to the sea” makes them uncomfortable we should fold to their concern trolling? That's just the end of that discussion huh? And when jews say Harvard is anti-semitic and pro-palestine protests make them uncomfortable, that's just the end of that discussion too?
You know it's bullshit, you don't buy this argument anywhere else
I’m an Arab poster and mods giving in to Zionist concern trolling makes me feel uncomfortable and like they believe israel = Jews and they think Hezbollah and Ansarallah are “anti-semites”. There's not one place on the western internet that's free of this cowardly hedging. Nowhere that will just outright support the axis of resistance and not wring their hands in worry the whole time. Every single place caves to zionist rhetoric eventually.
“It’s just an internet emoji it doesn’t matter”
If it doesn’t matter so much then add it and stop backing up Zionist arguments
I have this and will post it over and over. Let go of accepting Zionist concern trolling and embrace Hezbollah thought. You are just accepting the Zionist conflation and giving into it. It’s false and you know it
Your argument is basically “Zionists are right that Judaism is Zionism and Hezbollah and Ansarallah are anti-Semitic for burning flags with the Star of David”
You know this argument sucks but some mod made some bad decision about it and now you are backed into a corner defending an undefendable argument we all know is false
My first instinct is to agree with you, the scoldposts that don't say/add anything are very annoying but does it really matter if its the Israel flag or not?
We all know what the substitute is for and no one can accuse this place of anti-semitism. No one here disagrees that Israel is a bad fucked up place.
I think you should be free to keep posting burning flags and anyone who has an issue should talk to you about it, not hide behind mods.
No, nobody even knows what the other 2 flags are and always have to ask. New users certainly don't know what those flags mean. Generation after generation of new user will have to go through this discourse about why Israel flag gets a special status and why isn't there a burning Israel flag, over and over, repeating the Zionist mythos to all who dare enter hexbear.
It's stupid. Everyone here deep down knows I'm right and if I get banned for being hostile or whatever you all will know because I struck too close to the bone. I'm frustrated because people are acting dense as hell when it's obvious how this is just like the "anti-semitism scares" at Harvard and about "from the river to the sea", it's optics cuckholdry but people try to dress it up and defend it and it's bad faith
While I agree with the sentiment that the special status of Israel in anti imperialist and anti racist discourse is absurd and was always absurd, there is a key contextual difference between edgy internet nerds defacing a symbol and the people the symbol is claimed to represent rejecting it.
Ansar Allah is from Yemen, Israel doesn't claim to represent them. They rightfully destroy every zionist rag they see.
Funny how the only one of these that worked even a little on you is the one of jews burning it when it shouldn't matter. Every human on Earth should have the honor of destroying a Zionist rag
Im a different person and I'm responding solely to that image. Because I agree that Middle Eastern anti imperialists burning the Israeli flag is not antisemitic.
If you were protesting for Palestinian rights or against imperialism and burned an Israeli flag, that would not be an act of antisemitism, no.
The issue faced here is that a lot of antisemites use imagery like a burning star of David, and as a result jewish members of this community have said they're uncomfortable with making a burning Israeli flag emote, and I think forcing the emote maker to do so would not only be difficult but also just a weird act.
you keep saying the same stupid zionist concern troll arguments over and over. i dont accept them as valid. I think your argument is spurious lib nonsense completely and wholly without merit, equally as useless and meaningless as "from the river to the sea makes me uncomfortable". If a user is being anti-semitic, they can be banned. Being anti-Israel is not anti-semitism, and even accepting that argument part way and hedging with it is the problem and shows the mods (and their defenders) disconnect from the arab world and the wretched of the earth. Any arab user on this site is going to be perplexed by this weird hangup you have and your weird caving to the zionist argument on this one topic. Why? Why cave? Why imply Hezbollah and Houthis are anti-semites?
well i'm also an arab and if I saw anyone whinging about an israeli flag burning i would punch them in the face (I mean IRL, at a protest, if we are burning a zionist flag and someone came up and tried to get us to stop, that would not be tolerated)
If I was at a protest and me and the boys and burning American and Israeli flags, and somebody comes on and tries to stop us talking about how it "looks" yes they would violently be pushed away from it. In fact, something very similar happened last month at a local protest when the libs tried to put out the fires at such a thing. It's weird that the "official hexbear line" matches that of Egyptian comprador libs and not the enraged anti-imperialists. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with how much of a lickspittle people in here are being and how white and opticsbrained they are
I think you have wholly failed to read an argument in my post and have just projected what you would like to respond to unto it.
I have already said that I think the special status of Israel in anti imperialist discourse is absurd. What I told you now is that the person who makes the emotes doesn't want to, because of the history of the use of burning stars of David as antisemitic imagery, and forcing them would both be difficult and weird, to which you respond by saying that's the standard lib line.
Most lib arguments aren't about the feelings of emote makers, that's not a normal conversation.
I suppose that accepting that the emote maker has no desire to do so is a special type of argument, but it's not the type of special you want it to be.
If you wanted to be part of the struggle session maybe you should have been here when it was done back in October, but as it is you're not saying anything that wasn't said then.
i don't give a fuck about hexbear internal clique politics or 'struggle sessions'. Accepting zionist arguments and folding to their concern trolling in such a way that would throw ansarallah under the bus is pathetic. Slimy. It stinks like all zionist concern trolling.
No, we've already done the whole argument, you can find it by searching :israel cool:. Your points were made and responded to there, but the discussion revolved around stopping actual antisemites using it for coded antisemitism, not zionists equating them.
There's and to convey the exact same sentiment, but we don't have and aren't adding any burning religious symbols.
You might think you're above them, but our "internal clique politics" are how the site is shaped into a safe space for all comrades. If you don't like it there are plenty of other instances available for you to join.
none of the points were responded to. you trotted out the old "anti-Israel is anti-semitism" canard with a slight twist, it's not actual anti-semitism but could be perceived as such! So an even weaker argument than the usual Zionist concern troll bullshit. It's a pathetic non-argument and millions around the globe dance on top of burning Israeli flags, and that's good. The more you try to act like a flag is sacred and can't be burned, the more we are going to want to desecrate it in front of you. That's how flag burning works. It's weird that burning a zionist rag is shocking to you and shows how white and westernized you are, that you have that worry of anti-semitism override your normal logic here
it's not actual anti-semitism but could be perceived as such!
JUST FUCKING READ THE THREAD YOU LAZY, STUPID PEICE OF SHIT. As I believe what I said should have made clear, I am not trying to respond to your points. Your points aren't anything that haven't been said and fully discussed before - both the strawman you're creating of our stance and your reponses to it - and were considered completely unimportant. Nobody gave a fuck about the idea that "anti-israel is antisemitism".
It's weird that burning a zionist rag is shocking to you
You are making up the entire argument on your own and refusing to look at what has already been said on the issue, because you don't just think you know better than everyone else, you think you know what everyone else thinks better than they do. Personally I am very happy burning flags regardless of thier symbology, but as I said before, it's a discussion we had an a decision we came to in order to maintain this as a safe place for all comrades, not just the ones that have weird posting meltdowns when they're not allowed their emoji treats.
No they're correctly pointing out that Israel's flag has a star of David on it and that could be turned against us, just as it is in real life. They're not conflating Zionists and Jews
Turkeys flag has Islamic imagery on it too, here is Hezbollah chads burning it and burning the Zionist rag
Are you saying they are anti-Semitic and Islamophobic? That hezbollah has bad optics? I disagree, I think caving to Zionists is bad optics. I think you sound like the libs pearl clutching over the optics of Indian protesters using a "stalinist" flag. it's horseshit and even entertaining their stupid arguments means you lost and are under their civility/tone-policing thumb
ok yeah I actually responded with that above but it seems that that's not the reason.
I'm wondering then how it would be misused as you said below? The only thing I can think of is it would be misused by antisemites, but that sort of feels like we're equating Judaism and Israel, which is something we are explicitly trying not to do. What is burning is pretty clearly the flag itself which represents Israel and not Judaism.
It just feels like it makes more sense to have a burning Israeli flag than a burning Philippines flag. Would rather a settler colony burn than a neocolonial victim of US imperialism with an ongoing communist insurgency (although I don't actually know their relation to the flag).
ok, well I'm not sure I totally agree, I've already been called an antisemite and a Jew-hater for merely opposing Palestinian genocide, even when presenting my position in terms a liberal can understand. I'm not sure how much more damage a burning Israeli flag can do to our image, and at least it would be in line with our values. However, I will accept the Hexbear party line and lay off it.
we didn't have a vote if that's what you're asking. but if users really really want a burning star of david which the woman who does 90% of our emojis has very justifiably voiced hesitance about, they can. if they do it themselves and overcome the rest of us who support whyesseff's decision about it.
Ah, when GinAndJuche said it was the party line, I thought the mods might have officially released something on the topic. We're not really talking about demcent in this context, then.
The whole burning flag thing has become a really weird fixation, and I've seen it on a lot of posts.
It might be best to actually put it to a user vote. Or, if the mods aren't willing to budge, just let people know it's not happening and use it as an opportunity to educate as to why.
we're not a party and don't have an actual party line. no demcent, except as a bit.
The whole burning flag thing has become a really weird fixation
i don't think it's weird to have reservations about a symbol that has been associated with all jewish people being used against zionists. zionists do not represent all jewish people
If there’s a burning Russia flag there should be a burning Israeli flag. One is an actual ally to anti-imperialists and socialists, the other is a genocidal monstrosity.
The blatant hypocrisy, double standards and folding to Zionist logic is the problem. Either remove all the flags (especially Russia burning) or add the Israeli one. Otherwise it looks pathetic
It’s the fucking Israeli flag. It is not sacred, they brought it down to earth and opened it to desecration, mockery and critique when they emblazoned it on the flag of a colonial nation state. You don’t get to have it both ways, a symbol cannot be sacred and also the banner of a state, it's battle standard as it takes real material actions. Israel is the one who committed the blasphemy of trying to tie the religion of Judaism to genocidal barbarism, not us. This shows you still have internalized Zionist narratives, accepted their premises, and ultimately fold to their tone policing.
Better ban "From The River to the Sea, Palestine Will Be Free" then too while we're just caving to all bad faith Liberal tone policing and bourgeois optics. Actually, if you think about it, talking about Palestine at all makes many Jewish people uncomfortable so we should remove it from this site.
We have multiple burning religious symbols.
Burning jewish symbols is evocative of things that would be easily used against us. Too easy for right wingers to co-opt a burning star of david.
You are just accepting the Zionist premise that Israel = Jews, it’s pretty pathetic. Is it “anti-Semitic” when Hezbollah burns the flag of the Zionist entity? No.
Resistance fighters burn the Israeli flag all the time and that’a good and based. Cowardice from the mods and giving into Zionist narratives
Several Jewish hexbears have said that a burning star of David would make them uncomfortable, that's the end of that discussion.
It's an emoji on an internet forum. You'll be fine without it.
Oh so if some Jewish protesters say “from the river to the sea” makes them uncomfortable we should fold to their concern trolling? That's just the end of that discussion huh? And when jews say Harvard is anti-semitic and pro-palestine protests make them uncomfortable, that's just the end of that discussion too?
You know it's bullshit, you don't buy this argument anywhere else
I’m an Arab poster and mods giving in to Zionist concern trolling makes me feel uncomfortable and like they believe israel = Jews and they think Hezbollah and Ansarallah are “anti-semites”. There's not one place on the western internet that's free of this cowardly hedging. Nowhere that will just outright support the axis of resistance and not wring their hands in worry the whole time. Every single place caves to zionist rhetoric eventually.
“It’s just an internet emoji it doesn’t matter”
If it doesn’t matter so much then add it and stop backing up Zionist arguments
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I have this and will post it over and over. Let go of accepting Zionist concern trolling and embrace Hezbollah thought. You are just accepting the Zionist conflation and giving into it. It’s false and you know it
Your argument is basically “Zionists are right that Judaism is Zionism and Hezbollah and Ansarallah are anti-Semitic for burning flags with the Star of David”
You know this argument sucks but some mod made some bad decision about it and now you are backed into a corner defending an undefendable argument we all know is false
My first instinct is to agree with you, the scoldposts that don't say/add anything are very annoying but does it really matter if its the Israel flag or not?
We all know what the substitute is for and no one can accuse this place of anti-semitism. No one here disagrees that Israel is a bad fucked up place.
I think you should be free to keep posting burning flags and anyone who has an issue should talk to you about it, not hide behind mods.
No, nobody even knows what the other 2 flags are and always have to ask. New users certainly don't know what those flags mean. Generation after generation of new user will have to go through this discourse about why Israel flag gets a special status and why isn't there a burning Israel flag, over and over, repeating the Zionist mythos to all who dare enter hexbear.
It's stupid. Everyone here deep down knows I'm right and if I get banned for being hostile or whatever you all will know because I struck too close to the bone. I'm frustrated because people are acting dense as hell when it's obvious how this is just like the "anti-semitism scares" at Harvard and about "from the river to the sea", it's optics cuckholdry but people try to dress it up and defend it and it's bad faith
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get a load of these anti-semites!
While I agree with the sentiment that the special status of Israel in anti imperialist and anti racist discourse is absurd and was always absurd, there is a key contextual difference between edgy internet nerds defacing a symbol and the people the symbol is claimed to represent rejecting it.
Ansar Allah is from Yemen, Israel doesn't claim to represent them. They rightfully destroy every zionist rag they see.
Funny how the only one of these that worked even a little on you is the one of jews burning it when it shouldn't matter. Every human on Earth should have the honor of destroying a Zionist rag
Im a different person and I'm responding solely to that image. Because I agree that Middle Eastern anti imperialists burning the Israeli flag is not antisemitic.
Any anti-imperialist anywhere burning the flag isn't anti-semitic.
It's not anti-semitic in Japan
It's not anti-semitic in Venezuela
It's not anti-semitic in Iran
It's not anti-semitic in Africa
It's not anti-semitic on Hexbear
It's. Not. Anti-semitic. Period.
Are these gentlemen in Caracas anti-semitic because they aren't jews or middle-easterners?
If you were protesting for Palestinian rights or against imperialism and burned an Israeli flag, that would not be an act of antisemitism, no. The issue faced here is that a lot of antisemites use imagery like a burning star of David, and as a result jewish members of this community have said they're uncomfortable with making a burning Israeli flag emote, and I think forcing the emote maker to do so would not only be difficult but also just a weird act.
you keep saying the same stupid zionist concern troll arguments over and over. i dont accept them as valid. I think your argument is spurious lib nonsense completely and wholly without merit, equally as useless and meaningless as "from the river to the sea makes me uncomfortable". If a user is being anti-semitic, they can be banned. Being anti-Israel is not anti-semitism, and even accepting that argument part way and hedging with it is the problem and shows the mods (and their defenders) disconnect from the arab world and the wretched of the earth. Any arab user on this site is going to be perplexed by this weird hangup you have and your weird caving to the zionist argument on this one topic. Why? Why cave? Why imply Hezbollah and Houthis are anti-semites?
Also, as an Arab user of this site. Please don't speak for me.
well i'm also an arab and if I saw anyone whinging about an israeli flag burning i would punch them in the face (I mean IRL, at a protest, if we are burning a zionist flag and someone came up and tried to get us to stop, that would not be tolerated)
No you wouldn't. I don't believe you are violently unhinged. I think we should let this matter drop.
If I was at a protest and me and the boys and burning American and Israeli flags, and somebody comes on and tries to stop us talking about how it "looks" yes they would violently be pushed away from it. In fact, something very similar happened last month at a local protest when the libs tried to put out the fires at such a thing. It's weird that the "official hexbear line" matches that of Egyptian comprador libs and not the enraged anti-imperialists. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with how much of a lickspittle people in here are being and how white and opticsbrained they are
I think you have wholly failed to read an argument in my post and have just projected what you would like to respond to unto it.
I have already said that I think the special status of Israel in anti imperialist discourse is absurd. What I told you now is that the person who makes the emotes doesn't want to, because of the history of the use of burning stars of David as antisemitic imagery, and forcing them would both be difficult and weird, to which you respond by saying that's the standard lib line. Most lib arguments aren't about the feelings of emote makers, that's not a normal conversation.
You say this, then in the very next post defend the decision to not have the emoji for some "special" reason, giving it a special status
I suppose that accepting that the emote maker has no desire to do so is a special type of argument, but it's not the type of special you want it to be.
Ultimately it's the same argument with an added layer to obfuscate it. Why does the emote maker have no desire to?
Were talking in circles here. I've laid out all I care to and you can agree or disagree.
Why don't you just admit I'm right?
Will you denounce the Khouthis for their anti-semitism????
If you wanted to be part of the struggle session maybe you should have been here when it was done back in October, but as it is you're not saying anything that wasn't said then.
i don't give a fuck about hexbear internal clique politics or 'struggle sessions'. Accepting zionist arguments and folding to their concern trolling in such a way that would throw ansarallah under the bus is pathetic. Slimy. It stinks like all zionist concern trolling.
No, we've already done the whole argument, you can find it by searching :israel cool:. Your points were made and responded to there, but the discussion revolved around stopping actual antisemites using it for coded antisemitism, not zionists equating them.
and 
to convey the exact same sentiment, but we don't have and aren't adding any burning religious symbols.
There's
You might think you're above them, but our "internal clique politics" are how the site is shaped into a safe space for all comrades. If you don't like it there are plenty of other instances available for you to join.
none of the points were responded to. you trotted out the old "anti-Israel is anti-semitism" canard with a slight twist, it's not actual anti-semitism but could be perceived as such! So an even weaker argument than the usual Zionist concern troll bullshit. It's a pathetic non-argument and millions around the globe dance on top of burning Israeli flags, and that's good. The more you try to act like a flag is sacred and can't be burned, the more we are going to want to desecrate it in front of you. That's how flag burning works. It's weird that burning a zionist rag is shocking to you and shows how white and westernized you are, that you have that worry of anti-semitism override your normal logic here
JUST FUCKING READ THE THREAD YOU LAZY, STUPID PEICE OF SHIT. As I believe what I said should have made clear, I am not trying to respond to your points. Your points aren't anything that haven't been said and fully discussed before - both the strawman you're creating of our stance and your reponses to it - and were considered completely unimportant. Nobody gave a fuck about the idea that "anti-israel is antisemitism".
You are making up the entire argument on your own and refusing to look at what has already been said on the issue, because you don't just think you know better than everyone else, you think you know what everyone else thinks better than they do. Personally I am very happy burning flags regardless of thier symbology, but as I said before, it's a discussion we had an a decision we came to in order to maintain this as a safe place for all comrades, not just the ones that have weird posting meltdowns when they're not allowed their emoji treats.
This site is very white and it shows
Just another day of crackers tone policing how the dirty browns are allowed to oppose genocide framed around their comfort level.
Next up, all discussion about Indigenous American genocide must ensure the comfort of whites.
Has there been even a single instance of someone using the emote in that fashion?
We've never had the emoji, so they've never been able to try, but we have had plenty of antisemites try to get a foot in over the years.
This is actually a way crazier argument than the people saying we have to listen to Jewish students at Harvard - I mean Hexbear, typo my bad
No they're correctly pointing out that Israel's flag has a star of David on it and that could be turned against us, just as it is in real life. They're not conflating Zionists and Jews
Turkeys flag has Islamic imagery on it too, here is Hezbollah chads burning it and burning the Zionist rag
Are you saying they are anti-Semitic and Islamophobic? That hezbollah has bad optics? I disagree, I think caving to Zionists is bad optics. I think you sound like the libs pearl clutching over the optics of Indian protesters using a "stalinist" flag. it's horseshit and even entertaining their stupid arguments means you lost and are under their civility/tone-policing thumb
ok yeah I actually responded with that above but it seems that that's not the reason.
I'm wondering then how it would be misused as you said below? The only thing I can think of is it would be misused by antisemites, but that sort of feels like we're equating Judaism and Israel, which is something we are explicitly trying not to do. What is burning is pretty clearly the flag itself which represents Israel and not Judaism.
It just feels like it makes more sense to have a burning Israeli flag than a burning Philippines flag. Would rather a settler colony burn than a neocolonial victim of US imperialism with an ongoing communist insurgency (although I don't actually know their relation to the flag).
that is precisely the reason. As leftists we have to tread on eggshells because every excuse to accuse us IS going to be used against us.
ok, well I'm not sure I totally agree, I've already been called an antisemite and a Jew-hater for merely opposing Palestinian genocide, even when presenting my position in terms a liberal can understand. I'm not sure how much more damage a burning Israeli flag can do to our image, and at least it would be in line with our values. However, I will accept the Hexbear party line and lay off it.
Democratic centralism. we don't have to agree. I don't, but its the party position.
Honest question: was this decided democratically? How was it facilitated?
we didn't have a vote if that's what you're asking. but if users really really want a burning star of david which the woman who does 90% of our emojis has very justifiably voiced hesitance about, they can. if they do it themselves and overcome the rest of us who support whyesseff's decision about it.
Ah, when GinAndJuche said it was the party line, I thought the mods might have officially released something on the topic. We're not really talking about demcent in this context, then.
The whole burning flag thing has become a really weird fixation, and I've seen it on a lot of posts.
It might be best to actually put it to a user vote. Or, if the mods aren't willing to budge, just let people know it's not happening and use it as an opportunity to educate as to why.
we're not a party and don't have an actual party line. no demcent, except as a bit.
i don't think it's weird to have reservations about a symbol that has been associated with all jewish people being used against zionists. zionists do not represent all jewish people
No, I think the weird part is that some people think it's super important to have an Israel flag burning emoji
oh hell yeah lmao. friendly fire.
If there’s a burning Russia flag there should be a burning Israeli flag. One is an actual ally to anti-imperialists and socialists, the other is a genocidal monstrosity.
The blatant hypocrisy, double standards and folding to Zionist logic is the problem. Either remove all the flags (especially Russia burning) or add the Israeli one. Otherwise it looks pathetic
It’s the fucking Israeli flag. It is not sacred, they brought it down to earth and opened it to desecration, mockery and critique when they emblazoned it on the flag of a colonial nation state. You don’t get to have it both ways, a symbol cannot be sacred and also the banner of a state, it's battle standard as it takes real material actions. Israel is the one who committed the blasphemy of trying to tie the religion of Judaism to genocidal barbarism, not us. This shows you still have internalized Zionist narratives, accepted their premises, and ultimately fold to their tone policing.
Some mod and not any democratic means lmao
Democratic centralism requires democracy. This place ain’t a democracy so I hold no obligation to follow mod edicts
Better ban "From The River to the Sea, Palestine Will Be Free" then too while we're just caving to all bad faith Liberal tone policing and bourgeois optics. Actually, if you think about it, talking about Palestine at all makes many Jewish people uncomfortable so we should remove it from this site.