(yeah i know leftbook is generally bad and no i didn't expect anything better but still)
Yes, employers should be paying delivery drivers way more instead of other working-class people making up the difference. Yes, the US system of tipping and the fact that service workers rely so heavily on tips is fucked up. No, that doesn't give you an excuse to not tip the person who's bringing you your treats.
Multiple people called this meme "ableist" and "classist" :agony-shivering: and even more are saying "delivery driving's way easier than making the food and sometimes they deliver it to the wrong place!!! so they don't deserve to be paid more!"!!
If your arguments sound exactly the same as a chud's, you are not a leftist, you are a propaganda mouthpiece for billionaires that would love to see you drop dead. Shut the actual fuck up you PMC radlib swine. /rant
Correctomundo. This is a problem that can't be solved or even mitigated through individual action re: tipping amount, it has to be addressed systematically (ban on tipping, create a living wage, control the cost of living etc etc).
Saying you're for a living wage and refusing to tip is a bit like being against homelessness while endorsing criminalization of panhandlers.
As a former pizza driver I preferred cash tips. Avoided taxes.
this probably helps the worker more honestly, also if you ever use groupon you can also call the company and see if they'll honor it directly. As a * 🤢 * small business owner myself, groupon takes a pretty big cut to where it's almost not even worth it. I usually do this if i need to use groupon for whatever reason.
As a * 🤢 * small business owner myself,
Say psyche right now.
Is it atleast a worker co-op?
You're getting screwed over by your boss, the small business tyrant. Remember: stealing on the job is always based. And don't forget to call out sick liberally.
my boss is a real pos. i should call in tomorrow. thanks comrade :07:
There's nothing wrong with that, I'd just let them know in a note (which I think you're able to do?) that you'll be tipping at the door.
Sounds good to me but I'd be worried that they'd drop it off before I could give them the tip.
Edit: maybe apps let you change the tip later? Then there's a backup plan...
I don’t think these delivery apps steal tips but I can’t see any downside to what you’re doing. I’d just ask the driver what they prefer tbh.
One of them got in trouble for it though? Door dash IIRC, was paying X dollars for a delivery based on whatever criteria, and then if the tip was more than that they would just give the driver the tip and if it was less they basically would keep the tip to subsidize the regular payment that DD owed their driver, was my understanding.
A lot of restaurants do that. You can get away with paying your worker $2/hr if they make up the rest through tips. If they don’t, then you pay the difference.
As disgusting as the tipped minimum wage is, to me its different than what Door Dash did.
I mean, they were successfully sued for tip theft.
I mean I mostly just avoid these apps due to how expensive they make cheap food.
But honestly when I use them I still tip in app because the idea that someone might briefly think that I would stiff them is emotionally unbearable. Also never have cash.
if your political desires are entirely treat-oriented, you will eventually be herded back into neoliberal ideology.
neoliberals try to bait me with anime treats, unaware I can have posters in my head.
this is 100% correct on anything that requires tips. It's majorly fucked up to make some worker put wear and tear on their vehicle and burn up their gas that their "employer" (if we're gonna fucking call gig companies that) isn't doing shit to help with for nothing or whatever bs the gig company might be paying them which again is essentially nothing.
I find tipping as much as an annoyance as any other poor person, obv ideally the companies would pay their employers but thats not the world we live in. Go get your own food or make your own food like the rest of us.
calling it classicist is rich lmao, it's way more expensive ordering food than it is to just go get.
it’s way more expensive ordering food than it is to just go get.
Exactly. Ordering and getting it is waayyyy cheaper so if you can’t cook and are worried about money, just do that.
Here's a fun idea: Just don't use delivery apps. If you're a leftist you have no right participating in one of the biggest unconsentuals against worker rights seen in human history.
Here's a fun idea, and restaurants support this too: Use their delivery service. Seriously, you'll pay less, people keep their rights, and you're not feeding into the fucking gig economy.
Every grocery store and restaurant in my region just contracts with a delivery app now. They don't have their own drivers. You call the store, and they just send a doordash or skipthedishes driver with the stuff.
I'm sure that's not the case everywhere, but yeah. It's bad in a lot of places. It's even replacing accessibility services for the disabled and elderly. If you need groceries delivered, your only option is doordash. If you're too old to drive, you either have to keep driving or just use Uber. There already is no public transit, and now private accessibility and even volunteer transit are being replaced with Uber.
This also happens when you try to order stuff directly from a company. They end up just shipping it through Amazon anyways, ugh.
Mitigation strategies are limited to just not buying the thing, retrieving it yourself, or ordering directly from China via super slow snail mail.
hello china:
I would like a pizza here is 30$, keep the change. please have it in by next month.
"Ableism" is a real social phenomena, but for a large swath of people it just means that if a hypothetical disabled person can't do something than I shouldn't be expected to do it. Largely it's a result of politics being a form of cultural consumption as opposed to a collective project and a set of moral assumptions.
It reminds me of the people who refused to read theory or anything at all supposedly because of "ableism" but largely because of laziness and a lack of commitment
None of these people are fit for socialism since I am sure they would all be revolted to do any sort of productive labor outside of the paper pushing that their jobs require to sustain them
As a delivery driver, I'll just say I don't make hourly. Just a delivery fee, usually about $4, which depending on the restaurant is split with them, and tip. I average 1 or so stiffs a shift.
Going tip rate in delivery seems to be 10%.
Rich people, ie big houses in nice neighborhoods, tend to be to worst tippers, so feel free to have your biases confirmed yet again because it's true.
I get to listen to podcasts and music all the time though, so that ain't bad.
Thanks for the post though, I'm sure there are some extenuating circumstances where some poor person needs to get their food delivered and can't tip, but the vast majority of times it's just gotta be easier to pick up or make your own, and cheaper too. Motherfuckers getting a big mac delivered is wild tho
Going tip rate in delivery seems to be 10%.
This country is demonic, I hate every single one of these motherfuckers
Plus some services have tried to take tips. I hope you don't have to deal with that, though I wouldn't be surprised.
10%? What the fuck. I literally worry I'm being cheap when I do a 20 or 25% tip, how do these people exist
Order McDonald's via Door dash so you still have to tip.
Why is America like this? Here in South Africa minimum/standard tip for waiters is 10%, apparently in the USA it's 20% because they pay the workers that little base pay?
Actually extremely sickening.
It used to be 15% in the US, 20% became the norm thanks to gullible/weak Millennials feeling guilty and restaurants taking it as an opportunity to not raise wages. Now even counter-service fast food places ask for a tip!
It's a very expensive and a long journey if you ever want to go somewhere that's not Australia like visiting family. The rents you found were not normal and I'd be highly skeptical/check the website again to see if it was spam (you can find Craiglist ads for $800 apartments in NYC too...). The ecological/climate change situation in AUS also makes California look like a picnic, and the racism will shock you even coming from the South.
- Your tip should take into account the distance from the restaurant/store to your house and back. If my tip is less than $0.60/mile because I didn’t order much, I bump it up to match
- Tip in cash and, if you can, talk to your drivers to ask to see how to best get the money into their hands. They’ll tell you if people think the “delivery fee” online goes to them when it doesn’t.
- If you know anyone who works at a particular restaurant, ask what their delivery setup is like. I love ordering from this one pizza place because the owner pays dedicated drivers a decent hourly as employees and also lets them keep cash tips and overtime under the table.
20% plus $5 is a good baseline for delivery. On a busy shift I'd usually take about 18 to 25 deliveries. Driving about 100 miles.
The $5 covers gas and maintenance and the 20% is the standard tip that makes the minimum wage salary bearable.
That’s awesome. I keep forgetting other English speaking countries do that.
do people on leftbook read
like a lot of "leftists" i run into on leftbook seem like radlibs or people who blast the USSR anthem but have never read theory
They're almost all radlibs. I have no idea how it's possible to be worse than reddit "leftists" but somehow they've managed it.
I've actually been called a fascist/right winger by people on a leftbook. Maybe it's just that I'm a bit too brosocialist or they just don't read but I've made like sarcastic comments lampooning fascists and they don't get it and I have to explain it to them and then they start dogpiling me. I usually just start quoting random shit out Capital Vol 1 at them but they just get madder lmao
some of the shit I've seen there is pure cringe too, people calling arguing about how anyone not making rock bottom min wage isn't working class and just really infantile understandings of how even more well paid work can be as alienating as flipping burgers
the facebook population doesn't have the worst politics of any major site (i'll still give that to reddit), but if you're a leftist the sheer inanity of it is unbearable
Poor people don't even deserve a cheaply made fast food meal?
I have to agree with the sentiment that the boss stealing their labour should be paying them more.
its not cheaper. as soon as you involve doordash or whatever its way more expensive than just going to get the food, which is principally why I hardly if ever use those apps
their bosses should be paying them more but that doesn't change the reality that american service workers get fucked and part of their payment is foisted upon the customer. It's not uncommon for restaurant workers to get half minimum wage for example and make most of their money on tips.
You're basically coercing those workers to forgo part of their payment to deliver food to you if you dont pay a decent tip bc the employer isn't giving them shit usually. None of the people whining about this on leftbook are about to do anything to change it tho.
I do work for Uber Eats on the side and yes, and I don't expect the dude living off disability that just wants to stay in tonight and have some cornslop for once to tip as much as some executive that wants to shout their staff some shitty treats. Tip according to your ability, I'm not going to judge poor people for that.
I dont know what the disparity is between what people in australia and people in america get just hourly from uber eats but I bet its much worse for americans than australia as the tip thing is actually more of a "tip" for you guys and in the uk and europe. In the US its usually a major part of service workers income and necessary.
obviously there can be some difference in the disability guy and an executive thats obvious, what this meme is talking about is if you can't afford the bare minimum tip which in the us is usually 20% than you shouldn't be using the sservice bc you're actually costing the worker money.
Yeah, you're right there is a big difference in the function of tips in Aus compared to the US, I didn't think about that. Sorry.
it's fine, most people from countries more civilized than us don't know just how trash we treat our service workers.
They're trying to bring American tipping culture here which kind of scares me.
I'm sure the capitalists are salivating at the idea of lessening their responsibility to their workers.
Hope yall can resist it o7
I thought Aus would be more like US/Can in that regard. But if y’all are better off then kudos.
i would imagine aus would be more like the uk and the eu. Tipping isn't as much of a necessity there bc they never took advantage of the great depression to pay their workers fuck all. It's one of those things that it's just completely wild the us gets away with honestly
Didn’t know tipping was related to the Great Depression goddamn. Would love to learn more if you have any resources.
Ok so I found this . (at work so i dont have a lot of time to vet it)
Apparently like most things wrong with america, it traces back to slavery:
Well that movement, which came right around the time of the emancipation of the slaves, was squashed by the restaurant industry, which argued that they should have the right to hire newly freed slaves and not pay them anything as valueless people and essentially let them live on customer tips. And so many of the first tipped workers in the United States were former slaves…. And this idea was codified into the first minimum wage law that passed in 1938 as part of the New Deal…. We went from a zero-dollar minimum wage in 1938 to a whopping $2.13 an hour, which is the current federal minimum wage for tipped workers in the U.S.
:john-brown:
$2.13 an hour, which is the current federal minimum wage for tipped workers in the U.S.
Jesus fuck :what-the-hell:
that's the story of it anyway, i don't have any resources at hand, it definitely could be urban legend.
But as i've heard it told, restaurants couldn't afford wages for workers so they started letting them keep tips as a means of income and that's where the sentiment that tips were necessary and not just for "extra good service" grew and then they just held on to it and never wanted to bring wages back up, so they've always paid like half the minimum wage.looks like it was slavery
Everyone my age made like 2 bucks an hour at some point working for applebees lol
Yeah in Aus tipping just isn't a thing. Driving for Uber is the first time I've ever been tipped (and I've worked in service before) and even then it's like... $2 maybe twice a week.
here you get a base pay per trip that amounts to like a 1.50-2 or something, i think depending on region, and the rest of you income is based on tips.
Holy shit that's so little... I get like paid $6 per delivery by Uber and that's increased depending on how far I have to drive.
This makes total sense now, holy shit. I hope we don't end up like America, those poor fucking drivers, I wonder how many of them know how hard Uber is stiffing them compared to here.
how far I have to drive.
apparently americans can get a mileage rate as well but it isn't based on actually mileage lol. I'm having trouble seeing if this is a given tho. seems it may be folded into a "trip supplement" payment that can include a lot of things outside the base pay. Idk seems like they purposefully keep this shit vague so they can pay whatever they feel lol
Mileage Rate
This portion of your payout considers the mileage between pickup and dropoff points.
The Uber app, however, uses the most efficient rate.
It does not track the distance that you actually travel.
It also does not consider the mileage that you travel while getting to your next pickup point.
You should also note that this rate is only applicable in certain cities, such as New York and Los Angeles.
You may want to look into whether Uber offers mileage pay in your respective city.
When you sign up to drive, you’ll receive more information about your delivery location and respective pay rates.
This was what it was like delivering pizzas in aus in 00s. It was that or piece rate per delivery. I think it's changed since, but it's a rough gig
yeah my roommate in and after college worked at a pizza place for too long and thats how it was for him. i think they made like a couple bucks or so plus tips. He eventually graduated to making like 9 bucks working inside as a manager
I think it's "15 percent, to be quite honest" - at least that's my best guess.
that's what i assumed too but I meant more the base pay, me and dirt_owl sorted that tho.
It maybe be more expensive money wise, but it takes time (and transportation) to go out. I'm work from home, so I can genuinely see the benefit of me ordering food on company time, getting off work (or not), eating, and being free to do something I enjoy, rather than waiting to get off work just so I can drive somewhere and back. Cooking can also eat up time.
the key is whether or not you're paying the tip to make it worth the workers time
if you make enough money that you can say shit like "well my time is more valuable" than you can afford to tip properly (impersonal you here)
I wasn't justifying not tipping, but ordering food. Ordering already (nominally) pays for the cost of delivery. Judging poor people for using a system that benefits them, just because they "can't afford it" is the same justification libs use about iphones.
And just to say, I'll be the first lib here to go to the :gui-better: for being "rich", so I tip and tip well/cash whenever I can. But I hate it and feel bad for anyone who can barely afford "nice" things in the first place, only to be expected to pay even more because of a fucked up system.
Ordering already (nominally) pays for the cost of delivery.
are you american? It doesn't in america. In america you get a base pay of less than or up to 2 dollars to make the delivery the rest is your tips.
tipping sucks its a bad system. But what the meme is railing against is some people order food and NOT pay any tip which actually ends up costing the worker money. So my original thing about the amount of money is, if you can't afford the tip at all, just go get your own food. If you can, then that's cool.
It doesn’t in america. In america you get a base pay of less than or up to 2 dollars to make the delivery the rest is your tips. What I meant is Doordash or w/e already charges you for delivery. They don't for pickup. Also, in America, the minimum wage is (legally, yes in practice it doesn't always apply) $2 if your tips don't cover the pay. Otherwise your boss owes you minimum wage. Looked it up and its higher in some states (some as low as $3, others on parity with non-tipped). So it makes even less sense for someone to tip in California (tip=no tip minimum), then in my home state Florida ($6.98$/hr).
just bc it charges for delivery doesn't mean more than 2 bucks is going to the employee. You got a lot of faith in tech bro companies
Gig economy dont treat their workers as full employees in america, they've spent a LOT of money and energy lobbying to keep from being beholden to this. THE ENTIRE gig economy movement is first and foremost about undoing the weakest bit of pro-labor laws we have left from FDR's admin.
There is ZERO justification for this. Tip or you dont get the treats, any mental gymnastics to justify this shit is justifying taking advantage of some of the most underpaid and marginalized workers in our system
Oh I don't for a second believe any of the money I give to gig companies go to workers. But it should. But tipping is just subsidizing them not paying.
And really? "Tip or you dont get the treats"? Guess poor people shouldn't interact with anything from Amazon to Debbie's Bookbarn since they all exploit workers and all contribute to jackboot politicians. Real :improve-society: vibes.
Except by not paying workers to personally deliver your treats you are directly taking part in exploiting them where in those examples its just their employers. With service workers your patronizing of them is the majority of their income and withholding that and going "ummmm well its not my fault they're actually coming out of pocket to deliver this burger to me" is not justification for it
In america we're subject to the tip system thats the bottom line. one should have solidarity with their fellow worker and help them at their job not take advantage of the system to get shit out of their fellow worker at their expense and bending over backwards looking for laws where employers should do one thing or another to justify not tipping, especially when you can go get it yourself as an alternative.
You got real "never worked for tips" vibes
You got real “never worked for tips” vibes You got real "Poor people shouldn't have luxuries " vibes. Tipping should be abolished, and pretty easily can if people stop supporting it. But hey, clearly neither of us are going to change our minds at this point. I'll keep tipping, you keep tipping.
been poor my whole life have you? the point is if I am poor, and i'm getting paid to deliver shit, and some dumbass doesn't pay me to deliver it i'm gonna be pissed. And it's a shitty thing to do.
tipping should be abolished, but not paying them isn't some "vote with your dollar" shit whereby not "supporting it" is gonna fix it. What kind of smooth brained libshit is that? lmfao
I’ll keep tipping,
see that you do
