Yeah but still, evil empires invading each other cuz their inbreds rulers got too high on lead is less stupid than Malvinas and it had some kind of good outcomes I guess :ussr-cry:
A light cruiser bought by Argentina from the US in the early 50s that served all the way up until 1982. The ship itself took part in the coup against Peron in 1955 and even bombed it's own installations (a bunch of refineries) as part of the plan to overthrow Perón, along with it's sister ship Nueve de Julio. Here I want to note the absolute lack of sympathy I have for the Argentinian Navy, which even attempted to use the guns of battleship Moreno (which was a 1914s ship) to bomb it's own country in the middle of the coup, it's main battery (305 mm guns) were trained and ready to be fired but didn't do so in the end as Perón fled the country.
Belgrano was to be decomissioned and possibly scrapped by 1983 with the arrival of modern units, but the military decided to strike in 1982 and the old ship was pressed into service. Eventually it found itself navigating south of the islands outside of the exclusion zone, in an out, zig-zagging, as part of a southern strike force that would cooperate with the argentinian aircraft carrier Veinticinco de Mayo to converge on the british task force. Bad weather prevented the operation from being carried out and Belgrano was soon caught by HMS Conqueror, a nuclear submarine, which fired a spread of torpedoes that sealed Belgrano's fate, one of it's escorts were also hit by a torpedoe that failed to detonate, these ships were late WW2 US navy designs.
I have nothing to do this friday night so there you go!
Hmmm, not sure if it qualifies as a war crime. The thing with Belgrano is that it was entering and leaving the exclusion zone and making erratic moves, it wasn't there for no reason, it was a threat to the British naval forces as it was the southern group that would strike at the British if the order was given. Even the commanding officers at the ship understood that what they were doing was ridiculously dangerous, even they understood that the British acted in a "understandable way". The captain of the ship itself, who survived the sinking, even admitted that it was "fine", he regrets the loss of the ship but he saw it as a legitimate target and the action to sink it was also legitimate. It is also true that by the time the ship was struck by torpedoes, it was actually moving away from the combat zone.. but it could easily making a U turn and come back.
From what I know, the British govt. sent the Argentinian military junta a message through the Swiss embassy: the exclusion zone was not a limit to British military actions, they would strike at any enemy unit that posed a threat to them. There were cases were the British simply did not fire at Argentinian units that were outside of the exclusion zone, early on when the Royal Navy was making it's way to the islands, the Argentinian Air Force sent repurposed airliners for long-range maritime patrols that ended up spotting and relaying the position of the ships back the Buenos Aires, the British spotted the planes back and could have sent jets or missiles their way but they didn't. Also the Argentines planned an attack on Gibraltar (Operation Algeciras) that used italian-style frogmen to blow up a british warship in port, which wasn't carried out. And to top it all off, the military invasion of South Georgia island by the Argentinian military, that in the end saw the destruction of an old USN WW2-era submarine ARA Santa Fe that was carrying out a supply run. So I don't know, here in Argentina the exclusion zone argument is brought up only when it's convenient...
You really gotta be a massive fucking nerd to know what the fuck was the sinking of the Belgrano
:thonk-cri: I have been owned. To be fair I mostly know about it as it forms part of my Thatcher hate brain library, dunno if that makes it better though...
You really gotta be a massive fucking nerd to know what the fuck was the sinking of the Belgrano. Bet he has 300 hours on those map-games
Hell I probably have 300 hours in those map games and I'd still never heard of it.
Happened in Malvinas/Falklands, the stupidest "war" ever btw
No the stupidest war ever was WW1 which was also the stupidest thing ever
Yeah but that was a proper war, the Malvinas shitshow is just beyond stupid
that just means more people died
Yeah but still, evil empires invading each other cuz their inbreds rulers got too high on lead is less stupid than Malvinas and it had some kind of good outcomes I guess :ussr-cry:
millions of people died in WW1 it was one of the worst things that happened in the 20th century.
I'm not saying it was good
Stupid +2 to Naval Units for Anglos.
One day!
A light cruiser bought by Argentina from the US in the early 50s that served all the way up until 1982. The ship itself took part in the coup against Peron in 1955 and even bombed it's own installations (a bunch of refineries) as part of the plan to overthrow Perón, along with it's sister ship Nueve de Julio. Here I want to note the absolute lack of sympathy I have for the Argentinian Navy, which even attempted to use the guns of battleship Moreno (which was a 1914s ship) to bomb it's own country in the middle of the coup, it's main battery (305 mm guns) were trained and ready to be fired but didn't do so in the end as Perón fled the country.
Belgrano was to be decomissioned and possibly scrapped by 1983 with the arrival of modern units, but the military decided to strike in 1982 and the old ship was pressed into service. Eventually it found itself navigating south of the islands outside of the exclusion zone, in an out, zig-zagging, as part of a southern strike force that would cooperate with the argentinian aircraft carrier Veinticinco de Mayo to converge on the british task force. Bad weather prevented the operation from being carried out and Belgrano was soon caught by HMS Conqueror, a nuclear submarine, which fired a spread of torpedoes that sealed Belgrano's fate, one of it's escorts were also hit by a torpedoe that failed to detonate, these ships were late WW2 US navy designs.
I have nothing to do this friday night so there you go!
fun fact about the Belgrano, it was once called USS phoenix
the same USS Phoenix that survived pearl harbour
that's pretty cool to know actually
So was it a war crime?
deleted by creator
Hmmm, not sure if it qualifies as a war crime. The thing with Belgrano is that it was entering and leaving the exclusion zone and making erratic moves, it wasn't there for no reason, it was a threat to the British naval forces as it was the southern group that would strike at the British if the order was given. Even the commanding officers at the ship understood that what they were doing was ridiculously dangerous, even they understood that the British acted in a "understandable way". The captain of the ship itself, who survived the sinking, even admitted that it was "fine", he regrets the loss of the ship but he saw it as a legitimate target and the action to sink it was also legitimate. It is also true that by the time the ship was struck by torpedoes, it was actually moving away from the combat zone.. but it could easily making a U turn and come back.
From what I know, the British govt. sent the Argentinian military junta a message through the Swiss embassy: the exclusion zone was not a limit to British military actions, they would strike at any enemy unit that posed a threat to them. There were cases were the British simply did not fire at Argentinian units that were outside of the exclusion zone, early on when the Royal Navy was making it's way to the islands, the Argentinian Air Force sent repurposed airliners for long-range maritime patrols that ended up spotting and relaying the position of the ships back the Buenos Aires, the British spotted the planes back and could have sent jets or missiles their way but they didn't. Also the Argentines planned an attack on Gibraltar (Operation Algeciras) that used italian-style frogmen to blow up a british warship in port, which wasn't carried out. And to top it all off, the military invasion of South Georgia island by the Argentinian military, that in the end saw the destruction of an old USN WW2-era submarine ARA Santa Fe that was carrying out a supply run. So I don't know, here in Argentina the exclusion zone argument is brought up only when it's convenient...
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deleted by creator
:thonk-cri: I have been owned. To be fair I mostly know about it as it forms part of my Thatcher hate brain library, dunno if that makes it better though...
Yeah, I'm going to hide behind the fact that if you're a Brit of a certain age you probably know.
Nah they teach it in Brit school
Ugh, even worse then