• Straight_Depth [they/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    Lotta people blue checkmarks repeating "flagrant violation of international law" as if there's any set precedent or hard rule for how a nation-state is made. It's not always signatures and polite handshakes fellas, it's all about authority and the ability to wield that authority in defense of any claims you've staked.

    I'm not wholly in agreement with Putin on this, as it's basically a carte blanche for invasion in all but name on the basis of defending the LPR and DPR from Ukraine, but someone's gonna have to back down and it ain't gonna be Putin.

    • Alaskaball [comrade/them]
      hexagon
      MA
      ·
      3 years ago

      I mean not mentioning that the Ukraine was always in violation of international law by declaring it will never follow the Minsk agreements, and have been launching attacks and skirmishes against the breakaway oblasts for like the past 8 years, it's obviously Russia's fault

      God Clinton must be thinking blowback fuckin sucks after refusing to let Russia into nato

      • Straight_Depth [they/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Ukraine was always in violation of international law

        Yep, and the whole time they were crowing about how they didn't have to follow Minsk because the breakaway regions were themselves violating "international law". Ukraine, buddy, if you can't retake your lost territory by force or treaty it's no longer yours, no matter how much you whine about it.

        • Quimby [any, any]
          ·
          3 years ago

          idk about that last part. wouldn't that be true of, say, Israel and Palestine?

    • HamManBad [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      I was honestly shocked to find out Russia hadn't recognized LPR and DPR before now. The timing of this is really awkward and makes it look like he's doing exactly what he's doing, just begging to be called out on it. But this is probably the best case scenario-- Ukraine hasn't controlled those regions in nearly a decade, and if Russia stops right at the border of the separatist regions major war should be completely avoided, as long as the Ukrainian Nazi brigades don't try to Rambo the land back

      • space_comrade [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        You have to keep in mind that Putin isn't in charge of a Borg-like hivemind with him on top, he has to appease some internal Russian actors too. A lot of important actors in Russia probably felt like they should be getting something out of this whole mess.

      • cawsby [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Why do you think war would be avoided?

        NATO will now pump Ukraine full of everything under the sun when it comes to weapons.

        They were holding back before. This is not going to end except in an even hotter civil war.

        • HamManBad [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          What makes you think they were holding back? I assumed NATO was going to continue to pump Ukraine up regardless of what Russia did.

          • cawsby [he/him]
            ·
            edit-2
            3 years ago

            NATO is holding back because the US aren't the only ones in charge, and after the shit show in Afghanistan most NATO partners don't trust the US.

            If Putin continues down this path he will lose any sort of semblance of sanity from Germany and France when it comes to European NATO expansion.

            NATO is shit and all, but Putin is not a master genius or a hero here. Putin will likely force NATO's European leadership into full-tilt brinkmanship along the entire Russian border.

        • CheGueBeara [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          NATO was already aggressing lol. They're very clearly attempting to place Russia in a position of either pulling back entirely or stepping in as the Minsk II agreement is ignored and Ukraine continues shelling.

          "Holding back" only applies in the sense that they wanted to have propaganda efforts in place for how they weren't doing any of those things, walking a thin line bordering on the absurd. They will continue to do the exact same things.

      • ElGosso [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Putin is doing this now to show that the diplomatic framework of the Minsk agreements isn't worth keeping after attempts at diplomacy using that framework have failed.

    • cawsby [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      This is going to end in a hot civil war if Putin doesn't back down.

        • cawsby [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          There are alternatives than stanning for Biden or Putin on the Ukraine crisis.

          Neither leader has the Ukrainian people's interests at heart.

          • throw42069at [he/him]
            ·
            3 years ago

            Consider the overwhelming cultural similarity between Russians and Ukrainians and the complete lack of similarities between Americans and Ukrainians

            Also consider the power balance in the world: America is like 3x more powerful than Russia geopolitically. To say literally "neither Washington nor Moscow" is to support Washington implicitly: neutrality is nothing more than supporting the winning side

            • cawsby [he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              I'm sorry, but not supporting Russia in escalating a civil war is not supporting the United States implicitly.

              Cultural similarity isn't a reason to invade a country.

                  • geikei [none/use name]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    Well there is the Minsk deal as an alternative diplomatic solution and route thats already signed by Ukraine. Oh wait they shitted every day for the last 7 years ? Nevertheless

                    • DengXixian [he/him]
                      ·
                      3 years ago

                      Yeah. This is literally an escalation by fascists. Hilarious to see libs bending over backwards to justify more blood for the military.

                  • CheGueBeara [he/him]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    A reading of the timeline would make this better described as a response to escalation.

              • throw42069at [he/him]
                ·
                3 years ago

                If you watch a bully beat up a kid and pledge neutrality, who are you really supporting? If you watch the kid fight back and condemn the kid's actions, who are you really supporting?

                • cawsby [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  You can't break down the Ukraine crisis into a simple analogy.

                  • CheGueBeara [he/him]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    You also can't describe this conflict as if it's just Great Man Theory lol.

                  • throw42069at [he/him]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    Remember the fucking fall of the USSR and the crimes, atrocities that followed. Russia is the little kid fighting back against the bully in every shape and form. You condemn Russia because they are giving America a bloody nose, after Russia was raped (both figuratively and literally), torn apart, and dismantled. America deserves no influence, no influence at all in Eastern Europe.

                    • cawsby [he/him]
                      ·
                      3 years ago

                      Again, analogies don't work for this.

                      What exactly are you talking about?

                      • throw42069at [he/him]
                        ·
                        edit-2
                        3 years ago

                        "Analogies don't work for this"

                        Give me a fucking reason why the analogy of bully vs victim doesn't work here. Give me an actual argument rather than plain assertions.

                        Explain to me why Russia isn't the bullied here. America literally tried to dismantle Russia in its entirety. Russia is simply taking back what was once theirs.

                        Do you not know anything about the fall of the USSR? Do you not know about the Russian cross? Do you not know about anything related to Eastern Europe? I suggest you look at a map of the world before declaring that Russia is no more fit to influence Ukraine than America, halfway across the world.

                        There is no reason for America to be in Eastern Europe at all. Period. Asserting otherwise means you are supporting American imperialism. And if you do, you are no comrade of mine.

          • Staines [they/them]
            ·
            3 years ago

            Honestly, Russia officially allying/occupying DNR/LNR would at least mean people there can live their lives without daily ceasefire violations.

            In terms of regular life, I think this is the most peaceful outcome.

            • cawsby [he/him]
              ·
              3 years ago

              The Ukrainian civil war isn't going to end with Russian occupation.

              • DengXixian [he/him]
                ·
                3 years ago

                Who gets to decide if this is Russian occupation vs actual peacekeeping? DNR/LNR are both Russian speaking countries that have under attack by Ukrainian neo-nazis for almost a decade.

                • cawsby [he/him]
                  ·
                  3 years ago

                  Same kind of peacekeeping the US engages in without any international support?

                  • DengXixian [he/him]
                    ·
                    3 years ago

                    I don't think I understand what you meant, could you explain? Are you saying the US should decide?

      • Alaskaball [comrade/them]
        hexagon
        MA
        ·
        3 years ago

        Earlier the Ukrainians sent mercenary forces on recon onto Russian soil, they're literally asking to get denazified.

      • anoncpc [comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        3 years ago

        Ukraine could try, but they already got slapped in 2014, don't think the comedian is that suicidal, especially his citizens and the Ukraine economy is in shamble. Likely going down proxy war with Ukraine Nazi back by the west against the two republic back by Russia