I get this is the silliest thing to be concerned about right now with everything going on, but it does feel like the hawks scored a point here in the market place of ideas. Trying to add any context to the shitty situation in Eastern Europe is gonna come off as Putin apologia. I feel like it used to be a bit easier to pill Libs on being anti-war by putting to the USs fuck. But now that a country the hawks hated did a thing they predicted he’d do, well…
this happens every war. Liberals insuffferably claim to be antiwar normally and earnestly believe that to be true despite being in favour of every war the state department tells them to be.
focus on the fact that us militarily intervening in Ukraine would make everything worse for everyone and that they said they had to invade Iraq to secure peace as well
when do we start voice recording all these motherfuckers and playing their horrible-in-hindsight statements on loop every time these fuckers bang the war drum, like, even on a personal level
well they did record themselves saying it on the news and that footage is available
yeah but that was aaaaages ago sweaty. what, you want to look into what people have actually said from like a month ago? fucking tankie shill don't you know that history began yesterday
At this point I’m pretty sure that “Tankie” does just mean “Has a historical perspective longer than a week ago”
2022 is the new 2002, now's when we get to see which lefties are for real and which ones will fold when the US propaganda machine tells them to.
I'm looking forward to yelling at my family members that we shouldn't nuke Moscow this Thanksgiving.
I’m really sorry you are here.
lmao this is really funny in a morbid kind of way
I'm pretty sure I have several cousins in mɒskoʊ, so thanksgiving dinner with my bf's family will certainly be a blast this year.
"CNN hates Russia and Putin is Tucker Carlson approved." is going to be my go-to.
No American will EVER question the word of good 'ol Fox.
The Trump thing has gotten me into multiple arguments with my dad. I’ll say Trump was way less evil than George W, and it’s a tossup with Obama, because “At least Trump didn’t start any wars” and it’ll send him into a confused rage. And I remember him hating GWB at the time too, I think he genuinely just forgot how bad he was.
It never was socially acceptable.
You're a nice person? You are considered a social outcast in the west. The ENTIRE INTERNET is a massive nazi circlejerk, Fox News is the most trusted and almost universally beloved media source, right next to Breitbart, and the only reason the ignorant westerner has a problem with ISIS Is that they are not white Christians and THAT'S IT.
Sorry to go full doomer, but I hate how we're the only sane people (presumably) in the west but we are the most hated.
the only reason the ignorant westerner has a problem with ISIS Is that they are not white Christians and THAT’S IT.
big facts
Already happening.
I saw people in the fucking BRAZILIAN subreddit complaining about "tankies supporting China and Russia". First time I have ever seen a brazilian use the word "tankie"
dude, r/brasil is full of bougie libs. Anyone sane does not spend their time on fucking reddit, especially if you have to first learn english to share racist memes with yanks
Yeah, I knew it was a hopelessly lib sub, I just didn't expect to see someone blaming "tankies" for this conflict. It's much worse than I thought :deeper-sadness:
How did the state department people and suspiciously state department-minded people discover the word tankie?
Yeah, PT (Worker's Party) Senators condemned NATO aswell, then 5 minutes later deleted the note from the website and Twitter :(
But I understand, it's an extremely unpopular view and they're just gonna lose votes with that for no material gain
We don’t want the cycle repeating forever though. It had to eventually fail at SOME point.
Its already been a nightmare trying to give any level of context to the Ukraine situation to my liberal friends, even when they ask what’s going on.
I’ve had this conversation multiple times:Here are the historical reasons and conditions that have led to this and why it isn’t as black and white as “Putin bad”
So you support Putin?
:monke-beepboop: No, literally every side involved in this sucks, I’m just saying it’s more complicated than “Mean man invade country”
So you support Putin?
And this is from people who will vocally acknowledge that the United States is evil
calling it a capitalist war might be a shorthand way to make this point without getting the Putin simp label, not sure how well that works in practice though
Those who are really good at identifying fascism on the other side, while being completely blind to their own. Can't help but think it's projection.
What’s super weird is most of them would and do call the US fascist or fascist adjacent, but then they’ll believe every line out of the US state department. It’s baffling.
It's one thing to buy into the state department, it's another to actively get angry at and attack/ban anyone pointing out that the state department is a fascist institution.
I don't give them any points for literally causing Putin to invade.
The most infuriating thing about this is the fact that this war didn't spring up out of nowhere. Canada and the states have been throwing log after log into the war machine for the better part of a decade -- training troops in Ukraine, providing guns and ammunition to its soldiers, stoking tensions along its Eastern border. This war has been in the works by western powers for years, and Putin's invasion is just another victory for NATO and its allies, who now get to look like the victims of aggression despite being the ones stoking it for years.
The fact that this invasion is happening at all is a victory for western imperialism, as well as Putin, who is all too happy to play his part. And once again, like every other fucking imperialist war in human history, its the innocent civilians currently getting bombed who have to deal with the fallout.
This is an almost perpetually popular sentiment that can be used to get leftist points across even if libs are cheering on Biden. You don't have to take any stance at all beyond "I don't think we should get involved." Any pushback can be met with "getting involved will just turn this into another Afghanistan or Iraq or Vietnam, at best." Make them make the case for why that's a good thing, actually.
If they say we should get involved, bring up the Mogadishu Massacre. US went into Somalia with good intentions and ended up murdering 5,000 civilians in a single day.
Yeah I'm scared of this. I fear you're going to see a lot of Americans (or Westerners more broadly) come down with a case of warmonger brain even among people you don't expect, including plenty of nominal socialists. Shit sucks, people are hard enough to reach about this stuff as is.
It's part of the psychological healing process from Trump. It was very badly damaging for people to be proved wrong. It was tremendously harmful to their mental health. This new war is reassurance that things are back to normal, Trump was wrong about everything including being anti-war, and Putin the bastard that rigged the election that forced Trump on us is going to get what he deserves.
You have to look deeper and find what people are feeling. They'll for sure condemn tens of thousands to death because of it. Especially if the deaders are those deplorable American working class who make up the cannon fodder of the military.
Hard disagree.
Anti-interventionism is ridiculously popular. Supermajorities in the USA and UK oppose getting involved in the war.
There’s also been a split in the conservative camp, with isolationism coming out strong. Both Tucker Carlson and Tulsi Gabbard have been pushing a line very understanding of the Russian perspective.
The conservatives liking Russia doesn't mean it'll become a structured anti-imperialist stance. If anything it will just get wrapped up in culture war stuff where liberals hate Russia and conservatives hate China and neither of them are coherent.
Yeah, I’m not suggesting we become Tuckerites. But if they’re willing to incoherently make isolationist points, we can make anti war points.
The only people I've seen supporting the war are neoliberals including those who think they're leftists.
