I’m pretty sure they didn’t mean be patriotic to the regime they overthrew.
Historical Soviet leaders shamelessly exploited nationalist sentiments while agitating for revolution, consolidating support, repelling invasion, and rebuilding a central government.
Hell, a lot of these guys only succeeded because they got large segments of the standing army to defect to their cause under the pretext of defending and protecting the homeland.
Divorcing the bourgeoisie heads of state from the people, insisting that capitalism is destroying the country, berating business and political leadership for compromising the livelihoods of locals to the benefit of dynastic lords besieged abroad... all this plays into a revolutionary socialist movement.
If you can't do a bit of patriotism at home and assert that your revolution will make the lives of your neighbors better, I just don't know how you sell Leftism as policy.
I think the American idea of patriotism is too steeped in conservative ideals to be patriotic and socialist. All those other countries had hundreds of years of history and culture that you could reasonably divorce from the ruling ideology. America is built on the "freedom to oppress" and capitalist notions of protestant work ethic. Like maybe you could take the stance of equating capitalism to king george? But this country was founded to kill Indians, run slave plantations, and churn money for landlords. For a significant chunk of white America, their idea of patriotism includes flying the stars and bars and saying the CSA was just defending their homeland. How do you divorce that kind of patriotism from the inequality?
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, I just don't know how you turn American patriotism into comradely revolutionary spirit, except on the very surface level.
The founders of colonial governments throughout North America pretty explicitly designed white supremacy into their patriotism. It forms a very necessary insulating wall of bodies around the bourgeoise that they need to protect themselves from the dangers of slave revolts. They also outlawed miscegnation for the same reason: to prevent PoC from gaining real citizenship and fucking up the hierarchal stratification.
The US was pretty central in attempting to dismantle all the movements listed if not being the central antagonist. Patsocs in the west, but in the US in particular, use the language of right wing conspiracy theorists and labor aristocrats (ie: if you listen to Maupin and his buddies and read between the lines, their movement is very selfish/self-serving and puts the growth of Maupin's own middle class social strata above the needs of the rest of the country and international movement). It's been said pretty often that US symbolism is alienating to indigenous people, impoverished people, and other minorities, hence :amerikkka: . We don't need to tack an Abraham Lincoln head onto the wall of a hotel ballroom or appeal to a civic religion that was built explicitly on racism for it's own survival since the 1710s.
What hexbear and a lot of western MLs do is fine, I think. Celebrate 1890s anarchists and labor rioters who effectively changed legislation through sacrifice. Celebrate black nationalists who taught us that community is the important piece early western leftists were missing. Throw eggs at Browder. And celebrate indigenous land defenders who've done more to slow the 400 year march of capital than all western ML movements combined.
We already have our own mythology, we just don't leverage it in the manner of a unified movement, currently.
best example of this in lenin's time was probably the way the communist government used russian patriotism was used to encourage support for the soviet-polish war (which was absolutely a justified conflict on the part of the soviets, but still). listened to the revolutions ep about it today
Historical Soviet leaders shamelessly exploited nationalist sentiments while agitating for revolution, consolidating support, repelling invasion, and rebuilding a central government.
Hell, a lot of these guys only succeeded because they got large segments of the standing army to defect to their cause under the pretext of defending and protecting the homeland.
Divorcing the bourgeoisie heads of state from the people, insisting that capitalism is destroying the country, berating business and political leadership for compromising the livelihoods of locals to the benefit of dynastic lords besieged abroad... all this plays into a revolutionary socialist movement.
If you can't do a bit of patriotism at home and assert that your revolution will make the lives of your neighbors better, I just don't know how you sell Leftism as policy.
I think the American idea of patriotism is too steeped in conservative ideals to be patriotic and socialist. All those other countries had hundreds of years of history and culture that you could reasonably divorce from the ruling ideology. America is built on the "freedom to oppress" and capitalist notions of protestant work ethic. Like maybe you could take the stance of equating capitalism to king george? But this country was founded to kill Indians, run slave plantations, and churn money for landlords. For a significant chunk of white America, their idea of patriotism includes flying the stars and bars and saying the CSA was just defending their homeland. How do you divorce that kind of patriotism from the inequality?
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, I just don't know how you turn American patriotism into comradely revolutionary spirit, except on the very surface level.
The founders of colonial governments throughout North America pretty explicitly designed white supremacy into their patriotism. It forms a very necessary insulating wall of bodies around the bourgeoise that they need to protect themselves from the dangers of slave revolts. They also outlawed miscegnation for the same reason: to prevent PoC from gaining real citizenship and fucking up the hierarchal stratification.
Yes, both bourgeois nationalism and racism were invented in order to build false solidarity with the bourgeoisie
The US was pretty central in attempting to dismantle all the movements listed if not being the central antagonist. Patsocs in the west, but in the US in particular, use the language of right wing conspiracy theorists and labor aristocrats (ie: if you listen to Maupin and his buddies and read between the lines, their movement is very selfish/self-serving and puts the growth of Maupin's own middle class social strata above the needs of the rest of the country and international movement). It's been said pretty often that US symbolism is alienating to indigenous people, impoverished people, and other minorities, hence :amerikkka: . We don't need to tack an Abraham Lincoln head onto the wall of a hotel ballroom or appeal to a civic religion that was built explicitly on racism for it's own survival since the 1710s.
What hexbear and a lot of western MLs do is fine, I think. Celebrate 1890s anarchists and labor rioters who effectively changed legislation through sacrifice. Celebrate black nationalists who taught us that community is the important piece early western leftists were missing. Throw eggs at Browder. And celebrate indigenous land defenders who've done more to slow the 400 year march of capital than all western ML movements combined.
We already have our own mythology, we just don't leverage it in the manner of a unified movement, currently.
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best example of this in lenin's time was probably the way the communist government used russian patriotism was used to encourage support for the soviet-polish war (which was absolutely a justified conflict on the part of the soviets, but still). listened to the revolutions ep about it today
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