Lenin: :amerikkka:
Stalin: :amerikkka:
Mao: :amerikkka:
Kim Il Sung: :amerikkka:
Fidel: :amerikkka:
Honecker: :amerikkka:
Xi: :amerikkka:
Sankara: :france-cool: , but also :amerikkka:
Ho Chi Minh: :japan-cool: , then :france-cool:, then :amerikkka:
Maupinists: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of AmeriKKKa, and to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie for which it stands, one Reich under a DEVS who vults, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all except LGBT people, uppity women, immigrants, and every actual leftist who makes fun of me for being a bootlicking dork on Peter Thiel's payroll
"You need to be patriotic and proud of your genocidal empire otherwise you're not a real communist"
"Nationalism" and "patriotism" takes on a completely different meaning when discussing former colonies too. It's wild to be a Marxist and completely ignore imperialism, and why there might be differing notions of "patriotism" in the imperial core vs the periphery.
The Defeat of One’s Own Government in the Imperialist War V. I. Lenin
They must be talking about a different Lenin.
Can't but help noticing that Lenin is dunking Trotsky hard in that piece.
The same Lenin, Mao, Castro, Kim Il Sung, and Ho Chi Minh who had a part in overthrowing their governments?
Overthrowing the outsider colonial governors who rule through corruption and violence.
Communism and anti-colonialism went hand-in-hand for over a century. You absolutely could be a Patriot while championing a Leftist cause.
Americans would do well to tie Socialism to Home Rule and denounce de-industrialization, rent extraction, and resource exploitation as antithetical to Patriotism.
I guess they can stick with doing Land Acknowledgements before DSA meetings and paying reparations to Black Hammer until they feel better about themselves.
But good luck doing a Maoism when you've got half an apartment block full of liberals telling the other half that seizing the means of production is disrespectful to First Nations People.
recognizing the illegitimacy of the american state is the same as giving reparations to grifters
shrug
A sense of community and comradery doesn't need to preclude an understanding of history or a pursuit of justice.
I agree, but a sense of community doesn't need to entail nationalism. The majority of humans before the 15th century can tell you that.
I'd argue Christianity, Islam, and Confusionism were all setting the groundwork well before the 15th century.
The primary obstacles to nation building were technological, not ideological.
A consequence of it.
More people being able to organize around a larger shared space under a common language and culture is hardly a bad thing.
if you cant even get as far as hating the great satan what fucking business do you have even beginning to call yourself a leftist jfc
These Patsoc people literally only exist online. No remotely serious leftist organization in the US has taken up a vigorous "anti-patriotism" stance in their platforms or their agitation. So who is the so called "left" this person refers to? People on Twitter, or perhaps Reddit. Niche communities that serve merely as a mental escape from the capitalist hellscape we live in. Communities which anyone with two brain cells should be able to see are not where the revolution will be born, are not where actual discussions of tactics take place, and do not constitute the "left" or any left wing organization.
I encourage the PatSocs to go outside and test their theories.
they've got the Center for Political Innovation, less an org and more a think tank with a blog and considerable outside funding
Lol wtf, like yes be patriotic to the Soviet Union or the Peoples Republic and work towards building socialism. I'm pretty sure they didn't mean be patriotic to the regime they overthrew.
In fact I think there were some very serious consequences if you were too patriotic to the Tsarist regime or Imperial China. :stalin-gun-1::stalin-gun-2:
I’m pretty sure they didn’t mean be patriotic to the regime they overthrew.
Historical Soviet leaders shamelessly exploited nationalist sentiments while agitating for revolution, consolidating support, repelling invasion, and rebuilding a central government.
Hell, a lot of these guys only succeeded because they got large segments of the standing army to defect to their cause under the pretext of defending and protecting the homeland.
Divorcing the bourgeoisie heads of state from the people, insisting that capitalism is destroying the country, berating business and political leadership for compromising the livelihoods of locals to the benefit of dynastic lords besieged abroad... all this plays into a revolutionary socialist movement.
If you can't do a bit of patriotism at home and assert that your revolution will make the lives of your neighbors better, I just don't know how you sell Leftism as policy.
I think the American idea of patriotism is too steeped in conservative ideals to be patriotic and socialist. All those other countries had hundreds of years of history and culture that you could reasonably divorce from the ruling ideology. America is built on the "freedom to oppress" and capitalist notions of protestant work ethic. Like maybe you could take the stance of equating capitalism to king george? But this country was founded to kill Indians, run slave plantations, and churn money for landlords. For a significant chunk of white America, their idea of patriotism includes flying the stars and bars and saying the CSA was just defending their homeland. How do you divorce that kind of patriotism from the inequality?
I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, I just don't know how you turn American patriotism into comradely revolutionary spirit, except on the very surface level.
The founders of colonial governments throughout North America pretty explicitly designed white supremacy into their patriotism. It forms a very necessary insulating wall of bodies around the bourgeoise that they need to protect themselves from the dangers of slave revolts. They also outlawed miscegnation for the same reason: to prevent PoC from gaining real citizenship and fucking up the hierarchal stratification.
Yes, both bourgeois nationalism and racism were invented in order to build false solidarity with the bourgeoisie
The US was pretty central in attempting to dismantle all the movements listed if not being the central antagonist. Patsocs in the west, but in the US in particular, use the language of right wing conspiracy theorists and labor aristocrats (ie: if you listen to Maupin and his buddies and read between the lines, their movement is very selfish/self-serving and puts the growth of Maupin's own middle class social strata above the needs of the rest of the country and international movement). It's been said pretty often that US symbolism is alienating to indigenous people, impoverished people, and other minorities, hence :amerikkka: . We don't need to tack an Abraham Lincoln head onto the wall of a hotel ballroom or appeal to a civic religion that was built explicitly on racism for it's own survival since the 1710s.
What hexbear and a lot of western MLs do is fine, I think. Celebrate 1890s anarchists and labor rioters who effectively changed legislation through sacrifice. Celebrate black nationalists who taught us that community is the important piece early western leftists were missing. Throw eggs at Browder. And celebrate indigenous land defenders who've done more to slow the 400 year march of capital than all western ML movements combined.
We already have our own mythology, we just don't leverage it in the manner of a unified movement, currently.
best example of this in lenin's time was probably the way the communist government used russian patriotism was used to encourage support for the soviet-polish war (which was absolutely a justified conflict on the part of the soviets, but still). listened to the revolutions ep about it today
It's pretty bad faith when Maupinoids say stuff like this because it's clearly built on a half-truth, Fidel did what he did because he wanted what is best for the Cuban people, not because he liked Batista's regime.
I'm pretty sure they didn't mean to be patriotic for a capitalist shithole
For the average citizen of the USA, that is exactly what patriotism means
No thoughts, head empty, only flag
The parody song "Build the Flag" is an amazingly accurate representation of American patriotism. It's barely even a slight exaggeration.
The difference between living for your friends and neighbors or dying for some faceless shareholder.
It isn't hard to wrap socialism in a flag and tie it to a cross, if that's what gets people excited. Republicans do this shit all the time to good effect, then simply reneg on their promises time and time again.
I love my neighbors and I love my communities. I want to all the best for my “countrymen” (sadly even the dumbasses) as well people from other nations. I don’t give a damn about “American Empire®©”. There is nothing to be patriotic about making the world worse for other people in the name of a flag.
The idea of national pride isn’t a bad by itself to me in the sense you’re proud to be associated with the people/culture/ideas/whatever of a region. However in this weird global future their isn’t much that makes one person nation uniquely a person of that nation. It’s this weird neoliberal slurpee where it’s all leveled out and the same wherever you go. A patriot to me is someone who understands the promise and ideals of a “nation” and demands it lives up to those things. If that “nation” has shitty ideals, a patriot challenges and tries to change them.
Exactly. Trying to flatten the patriotism of colonized people working for self-determination and the unquestioning acceptance of imperialism understood as “patriotism,” in the US is absurd.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here in the Maupin discourse is how deeply, deeply antisemetic he is.
I'm not saying he hates Jewish people, but every time he points his finger it ends up being pointed at a Jewish person.
It's particular to his writing too, so he can lure people in with his talks and videos and shit.
I didn't know about it because it takes a bit of directly interacting to notice it. I see some of his stuff floating around and know he's transphobic and a moron, but until I heard his ideas about civilization being infiltrated I didn't know he was antisemitic
Yep, as I said to someone else, I only see it in his writing (not that I seek it out, but I've seen YoutTubers read parts of 2 different books now, both horribly antisemetic). He keeps his more public image clean.
