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this may induce :some-controversy: but we can all agree his accent is :chefs-kiss:
the only pro-russian people are fake lefties like haz and right wingers, this video is about people who don't exist, attacking positions nobody actually takes
Well, we have this moron on our very own hexbear and every useful idiot who upvoted their comments, but it is true they are utterly insignificant in the grander scheme
It's good that Russia is creating a bipolar world actually.
If you had any understanding of imperialism you'd know that this kind of action might genuinely be a breakout moment for those who wish to escape Western influence.
I'm not going to suggest that Russia is doing this out of the kindness of their hearts for our Communist cause, but if you don't support what they're doing then what do you support? What would you rather they'd have done? Sat back and let Western hegemony grow larger and larger while you sit back and think "I'm a good person for thinking war is bad"?
Russia is already making waves within the Global South. There's a reason why Mali invited the Russian military in after telling the French to get the fuck out.
Here's a good overview of what's happening in the Sahel as well as France's attempts at maintaining their neocolonies: https://thetricontinental.org/newsletterissue/sahel-conflict/
For Mali in particular, Mali pre-military coup was run by a government that was obedient to its neocolonial master, agreeing to be a member of G5 Sahel, which was just a way for France to maintain colonial control over its former colonies. Among the agreement was the stipulation that France could deploy troops in those West African countries.
In 2020, there was a military coup that ousted the Ibrahim-led government amidst popular support, partly due to Covid and partly due to him being a neocolonial stooge. Within days of the coup, there was already talk between the new government and Russia over military cooperation. The ramifications of the coup included being suspended from the African Union and the US withdrawing military aid.
In less than a year, there was another military coup, and the new new government since then has attempted to pursued a more independent foreign policy. Russian "military advisors" were invited in at least sometime before January 7, 2022 to answer your question.
In less than a month, Mali would tell Denmark to get the fuck out and the French ambassador to get the fuck out. Reading about the situation with Denmark is most illustrative. Back when Mali was ruled by neocolonial stooges, the red carpet was rolled out for the Danish. But now that the current Malian government is no longer run by Western worshiping sellouts and attempting to pursue an independent foreign policy, the Danish were told that they can fuck off back to Scandinavia. They don't need to be in Western Africa or Africa period.
In the present, Mali is no longer part of G5 Sahel and the French had been forced to withdraw their entire military. In just two years, Mali went from being just another country ruled by neocolonial puppets to a country that's attempting to break free from neocolonial control. I say attempt because they still are using the CFA franc and are currently facing sanctions from the ECOWAS.
May this be the beginning of the end for Francafrique.
I've commented elsewhere in this thread and am not looking to get dragged down into the quagmire of this, but also feel like it needs to be said that this idea that expressing opinion others deem not to be a harsh enough denouncement of something they don't like is by no sensible metric "support".
And certainly not any kind of material support, which seems to be the type that matters.
The idea that every comment on a niche leftist forum needs to be appropriately dismissive of and list every caveat to an international state's actions seems performative at best and wrecker shit at worst. This isn't about actions that actively hurt or impact real people in this community, it's about a very small number of account clutching their pearls that people don't adequately agree with them.
I disagree with loads of takes here, but appreciate that generally people take the time to explain their positions and consider the responses. Not to get all armchair psychology but I wonder if it stems from people feeling like they've found a refuge from being the extreme minority only to be confronted with something other than the perfectly comfortable agreement they hoped for. Maybe I'm just old and cynical, but plenty of real world organising and leftist orgs have assured me no such thing exists. You gather comrades, argue the details, and work together to get along and get shit done or else we might as well all be yelling to ourselves on Twitter.
Anyway, it's late and sorry if that was more of a ramble than it should have been, but this idea of 'support' being anything that digresses from an individual's personal opinion really fucking bugs me.
Russia is not reactionary in the Marxist sense. If you mean it is "conservative" then, yes, it is.
It is an illiberal country with a strong following of the Orthodox Church. You want me to get mad that their historical and cultural values don't align with Western liberalism?
Is not supporting Russia going to change their entire cultural outlook and identity? Will they see the error of their ways when Western leftists call them "sexist" and "homophobic"?
I think you maybe forget that even the US didn't have a majority support of same-sex marriage until 2008. I'm not sure what functional difference "support" is going to make in that regard.
Waving a Russian flag and calling them "based" is kinda cringe and basically LARP, but I just don't see where you're coming from in this angle.
Please tell tell that to the woman cradling her dead husband that actually it's good he had to die because wouldn't she rather live in a multipolar world? And that if she doesn't like it, all she has to do is simply overthrow her own government
Please tell that to the woman cradling her dead husband that actually it's good he had to die because wouldn't she rather live in a socialist nation? And that if she doesn't like it, all she has to do is simply not marry a policeman.
World historical progress is violent and turbulent and your anecdotal moralism is arbitrary.
Not one of the "reactionary putinists" on this site that are supposedly pro-Putin are in favor of civilian casualties. We want the war to end as soon as possible, and the way that happens is decisive Russian victory. NATO shouldn't have started this war, but Russia has to finish it. Just like it finished the NATO-started Syrian war. Just like it finished the NATO-started Kazak and Belarus Coups.
So, just to be clear, Haz, you are for the invasionwar special military operation, think it is good that Russia invaded, and that the civilian casualties are a necessary evil in order to midly inconvenience the US and NATO who are getting the biggest boon to their self-propagation from this mess?
The war started in 2014 when NATO threw a coup and installed fascists and started military buildup and killed all the leftists and russian speakers. 14,000 dead in the Donbass. 8 years of broken agreements and western lies and fascist paramilitary banditry. Russia should have gone in and wiped out the junta in 2014, but they were not yet sanction proof.
I am for Russia ending this junta and liberating Ukraine from western puppetry. I am for destroying a fascist forward base of the hegemonic world empire yes. You aren't westoid? What kind of solidarity with China and DPRK and Venezuela is that? They've all made the correct stances quite clear.
I am not Haz, you are an arrogant little westoid shit.
Thank you for being honest. My stance is very simple: Ukraine, Russia and the US are right wing, Conservative, reactionary nationalist regimes dominated by imperialism and a slavish devotion to neoliberal practices. All have categorically rejected communism in its entirety. There is no solidarity to be found for their governments. Russia has rejected the class struggle, as has Ukraine and the USA. There is no question that NATO had a hand in restarting hostilities beyond what had been agreed by the Minsk treaty.
I do not see a grand repolarization and damage to the US's reputation from this. Hell, NATO just expanded a little bit more with Sweden and Finland joining. Russia has no clear path for "liberation" of Ukraine, they do not have the military means to institute a capitulation of the Ukrainian state, let alone an occupation, let alone "denazification" for fucks sake. They can't even occupy the country, they sure as shit aren't gonna go house to house dragging them out of their beds. They lost the momentum, and the most they can do right now is hold on to their gains, and inch across while suing for peace. Ukraine has chosen the maximalist, revanchist, irredentist line, at the behest of NATO, because if they don't Zelensky is probably as good as dead. In the meantime, I assure you that an invasion by a foreign power is the guaranteed surefire way to breed at least two to three generations of even more rabid nazis than what where created in 2014. Russia has no plan for dealing with that. So they've actually helped increase the already very large number of nazis, killed a couple in Mariupol, and in the meantime helped engineer another economic and food crisis in the global south by affecting Ukrainian food exports. I'm sure Yemen will also be a necessary casualty for the grand realignment.
Sweden and Finland haven't yet joined, they are being vetoed by Turkey who is making extreme nationalist demands and causing fractures within NATO. The Western economies are near collapse, with skyrocketing food and energy prices, an incoming recession, supply chain shortages & record breaking inflation all occurring at once. The US core will fair slightly better as European capital is going to flee to the US and European enterprise will be scrapped and sold for cheap. What's left of European social democracies will be slurped up by the US to compensate for capitalist crisis noted before.
Your idealist, moralist categorizations are naive and non pragmatic. Who cares if Russia is rightwing internally if their global actions are that of an ally to all AES states & a counter to the single monopoly imperialist, the anglo-American empire that has dominated freely the last 40 years. China agrees with me. DPRK agrees with me. Venezuela agrees with me. None of them sanction or denounce Russia, all support or quietly back them as they smash the NATO advance. Just like they smashed the NATO jihadist insurgency in Syria. Deal with it imperialist, Russia is acting anti-imperialistically and however your emotions make you squeamish they are the only ally China has got and if Russia falters then China will too.|
The world will only free itself from US dollar dominance, the IMF & other anglo-american imperiaist forces by violent struggle. It's not going to be morally clean, it never is. But I fully support an ally to all socialists destroying fascists who are put in power to attack them by imperialists, don't you?
Damn, your moralistic idealism changed my mind. I will now sit and wait around until a bloodless, non-violent revolution with no flaws occurs while wagging my finger at anyone who steps out of line.
You are correct, sorry. I now fully support United Russia and how they sat with their thumbs up their ass while Azerbaijan ethnically cleansed Nagorno-Karabakh of Armenians on Russia's doorstep (because it was anti imperialist).
Top down military operations with zero class character are good, actually. I love inching closer to nuclear war in order to make NATO stronger than ever, and this is actually just like a grand proletarian revolution, if you really think about it
There's just a thread of mostly considerate considerations within a geopolitical context and one user who, regardless of their stances, was probably overly aggressive and personal and is now banned anyway.
Even the OP of the thread concedes they can't identify pro-Putin stuff and shifts to vaguely asserting they've seen stuff on Twitter from accounts that claim to be Marxist.
Russia, whether they chose this fate or not, are world historical guardians against European fascism and colonialism. Not for any principled reason but due to the peculiarities of their geography, resources & conditions.
lmao mate, the only reason we don't know fascism by it's Russian name is that the Bolsheviks won. our victories aren't guaranteed and they definitely don't last past a successful counterrevolution.
Oh hello again Haz, are you here to tell us about how Genghis Khan was a communist or you still embattled in attempting to discern between urethras, anuses and cervixes? Here's another fun one for you; cloacas. Why don't you go and look at some of those for a while
the only pro-russian people are fake lefties like haz and right wingers, this video is about people who don't exist, attacking positions nobody actually takes
so it's peak breadtube
Well, we have this moron on our very own hexbear and every useful idiot who upvoted their comments, but it is true they are utterly insignificant in the grander scheme
It's good that Russia is creating a bipolar world actually.
If you had any understanding of imperialism you'd know that this kind of action might genuinely be a breakout moment for those who wish to escape Western influence.
I'm not going to suggest that Russia is doing this out of the kindness of their hearts for our Communist cause, but if you don't support what they're doing then what do you support? What would you rather they'd have done? Sat back and let Western hegemony grow larger and larger while you sit back and think "I'm a good person for thinking war is bad"?
Russia is already making waves within the Global South. There's a reason why Mali invited the Russian military in after telling the French to get the fuck out.
Can you link sth about Mali actually inviting Russia? Haven't read it anywhere apart from comments here.
Here's a good overview of what's happening in the Sahel as well as France's attempts at maintaining their neocolonies: https://thetricontinental.org/newsletterissue/sahel-conflict/
For Mali in particular, Mali pre-military coup was run by a government that was obedient to its neocolonial master, agreeing to be a member of G5 Sahel, which was just a way for France to maintain colonial control over its former colonies. Among the agreement was the stipulation that France could deploy troops in those West African countries.
In 2020, there was a military coup that ousted the Ibrahim-led government amidst popular support, partly due to Covid and partly due to him being a neocolonial stooge. Within days of the coup, there was already talk between the new government and Russia over military cooperation. The ramifications of the coup included being suspended from the African Union and the US withdrawing military aid.
In less than a year, there was another military coup, and the new new government since then has attempted to pursued a more independent foreign policy. Russian "military advisors" were invited in at least sometime before January 7, 2022 to answer your question.
In less than a month, Mali would tell Denmark to get the fuck out and the French ambassador to get the fuck out. Reading about the situation with Denmark is most illustrative. Back when Mali was ruled by neocolonial stooges, the red carpet was rolled out for the Danish. But now that the current Malian government is no longer run by Western worshiping sellouts and attempting to pursue an independent foreign policy, the Danish were told that they can fuck off back to Scandinavia. They don't need to be in Western Africa or Africa period.
In the present, Mali is no longer part of G5 Sahel and the French had been forced to withdraw their entire military. In just two years, Mali went from being just another country ruled by neocolonial puppets to a country that's attempting to break free from neocolonial control. I say attempt because they still are using the CFA franc and are currently facing sanctions from the ECOWAS.
May this be the beginning of the end for Francafrique.
Nice, this is way more than i asked for, thanks a lot!
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deleted by creator
I've commented elsewhere in this thread and am not looking to get dragged down into the quagmire of this, but also feel like it needs to be said that this idea that expressing opinion others deem not to be a harsh enough denouncement of something they don't like is by no sensible metric "support".
And certainly not any kind of material support, which seems to be the type that matters.
The idea that every comment on a niche leftist forum needs to be appropriately dismissive of and list every caveat to an international state's actions seems performative at best and wrecker shit at worst. This isn't about actions that actively hurt or impact real people in this community, it's about a very small number of account clutching their pearls that people don't adequately agree with them.
I disagree with loads of takes here, but appreciate that generally people take the time to explain their positions and consider the responses. Not to get all armchair psychology but I wonder if it stems from people feeling like they've found a refuge from being the extreme minority only to be confronted with something other than the perfectly comfortable agreement they hoped for. Maybe I'm just old and cynical, but plenty of real world organising and leftist orgs have assured me no such thing exists. You gather comrades, argue the details, and work together to get along and get shit done or else we might as well all be yelling to ourselves on Twitter.
Anyway, it's late and sorry if that was more of a ramble than it should have been, but this idea of 'support' being anything that digresses from an individual's personal opinion really fucking bugs me.
Russia is not reactionary in the Marxist sense. If you mean it is "conservative" then, yes, it is.
It is an illiberal country with a strong following of the Orthodox Church. You want me to get mad that their historical and cultural values don't align with Western liberalism?
Is not supporting Russia going to change their entire cultural outlook and identity? Will they see the error of their ways when Western leftists call them "sexist" and "homophobic"?
I think you maybe forget that even the US didn't have a majority support of same-sex marriage until 2008. I'm not sure what functional difference "support" is going to make in that regard.
Waving a Russian flag and calling them "based" is kinda cringe and basically LARP, but I just don't see where you're coming from in this angle.
deleted by creator
Please tell tell that to the woman cradling her dead husband that actually it's good he had to die because wouldn't she rather live in a multipolar world? And that if she doesn't like it, all she has to do is simply overthrow her own government
Please tell that to the woman cradling her dead husband that actually it's good he had to die because wouldn't she rather live in a socialist nation? And that if she doesn't like it, all she has to do is simply not marry a policeman.
World historical progress is violent and turbulent and your anecdotal moralism is arbitrary.
Not one of the "reactionary putinists" on this site that are supposedly pro-Putin are in favor of civilian casualties. We want the war to end as soon as possible, and the way that happens is decisive Russian victory. NATO shouldn't have started this war, but Russia has to finish it. Just like it finished the NATO-started Syrian war. Just like it finished the NATO-started Kazak and Belarus Coups.
So, just to be clear, Haz, you are for the
invasionwarspecial military operation, think it is good that Russia invaded, and that the civilian casualties are a necessary evil in order to midly inconvenience the US and NATO who are getting the biggest boon to their self-propagation from this mess?The war started in 2014 when NATO threw a coup and installed fascists and started military buildup and killed all the leftists and russian speakers. 14,000 dead in the Donbass. 8 years of broken agreements and western lies and fascist paramilitary banditry. Russia should have gone in and wiped out the junta in 2014, but they were not yet sanction proof.
I am for Russia ending this junta and liberating Ukraine from western puppetry. I am for destroying a fascist forward base of the hegemonic world empire yes. You aren't westoid? What kind of solidarity with China and DPRK and Venezuela is that? They've all made the correct stances quite clear.
I am not Haz, you are an arrogant little westoid shit.
Can you explain how Russia was not sanction-proof in 2014 but is now? Because it does sound interesting.
Thank you for being honest. My stance is very simple: Ukraine, Russia and the US are right wing, Conservative, reactionary nationalist regimes dominated by imperialism and a slavish devotion to neoliberal practices. All have categorically rejected communism in its entirety. There is no solidarity to be found for their governments. Russia has rejected the class struggle, as has Ukraine and the USA. There is no question that NATO had a hand in restarting hostilities beyond what had been agreed by the Minsk treaty.
I do not see a grand repolarization and damage to the US's reputation from this. Hell, NATO just expanded a little bit more with Sweden and Finland joining. Russia has no clear path for "liberation" of Ukraine, they do not have the military means to institute a capitulation of the Ukrainian state, let alone an occupation, let alone "denazification" for fucks sake. They can't even occupy the country, they sure as shit aren't gonna go house to house dragging them out of their beds. They lost the momentum, and the most they can do right now is hold on to their gains, and inch across while suing for peace. Ukraine has chosen the maximalist, revanchist, irredentist line, at the behest of NATO, because if they don't Zelensky is probably as good as dead. In the meantime, I assure you that an invasion by a foreign power is the guaranteed surefire way to breed at least two to three generations of even more rabid nazis than what where created in 2014. Russia has no plan for dealing with that. So they've actually helped increase the already very large number of nazis, killed a couple in Mariupol, and in the meantime helped engineer another economic and food crisis in the global south by affecting Ukrainian food exports. I'm sure Yemen will also be a necessary casualty for the grand realignment.
Sweden and Finland haven't yet joined, they are being vetoed by Turkey who is making extreme nationalist demands and causing fractures within NATO. The Western economies are near collapse, with skyrocketing food and energy prices, an incoming recession, supply chain shortages & record breaking inflation all occurring at once. The US core will fair slightly better as European capital is going to flee to the US and European enterprise will be scrapped and sold for cheap. What's left of European social democracies will be slurped up by the US to compensate for capitalist crisis noted before.
Your idealist, moralist categorizations are naive and non pragmatic. Who cares if Russia is rightwing internally if their global actions are that of an ally to all AES states & a counter to the single monopoly imperialist, the anglo-American empire that has dominated freely the last 40 years. China agrees with me. DPRK agrees with me. Venezuela agrees with me. None of them sanction or denounce Russia, all support or quietly back them as they smash the NATO advance. Just like they smashed the NATO jihadist insurgency in Syria. Deal with it imperialist, Russia is acting anti-imperialistically and however your emotions make you squeamish they are the only ally China has got and if Russia falters then China will too.|
The world will only free itself from US dollar dominance, the IMF & other anglo-american imperiaist forces by violent struggle. It's not going to be morally clean, it never is. But I fully support an ally to all socialists destroying fascists who are put in power to attack them by imperialists, don't you?
OK Haz
Ok imperialist
Damn, your moralistic idealism changed my mind. I will now sit and wait around until a bloodless, non-violent revolution with no flaws occurs while wagging my finger at anyone who steps out of line.
You are correct, sorry. I now fully support United Russia and how they sat with their thumbs up their ass while Azerbaijan ethnically cleansed Nagorno-Karabakh of Armenians on Russia's doorstep (because it was anti imperialist).
Top down military operations with zero class character are good, actually. I love inching closer to nuclear war in order to make NATO stronger than ever, and this is actually just like a grand proletarian revolution, if you really think about it
If Russia intervened in Azerbaijan you would be calling them imperialist invaders. You can’t win with you ultra shits
you just linked to a whole-ass account, for a users whose ukraine-related posts are mostly on the money as far as I've seen. got anything specific?
https://hexbear.net/post/198201
This trash fire of a thread. Enjoy. Or don't.
I wanted a specific and you have linked me to an entire thread
try again, be specific, where's the putin support?
There isn't any.
There's just a thread of mostly considerate considerations within a geopolitical context and one user who, regardless of their stances, was probably overly aggressive and personal and is now banned anyway.
Even the OP of the thread concedes they can't identify pro-Putin stuff and shifts to vaguely asserting they've seen stuff on Twitter from accounts that claim to be Marxist.
Why is it every time some NATO defender shows up they can't come up with a single specific instance of Russian support
:brainworms:
At least hexbear isn't like reddit where it's just an unending cascade of these libs
Only banned from anarchism bby I ain’t going anywhere
That's good to hear.
For clarity: :LIB:
The specter of Z poster is haunting libs on hexbear.
Z poster's existence making all the liberals in this site out themselves
lmao mate, the only reason we don't know fascism by it's Russian name is that the Bolsheviks won. our victories aren't guaranteed and they definitely don't last past a successful counterrevolution.
@ me next time you coward, I’m undefeated in battle
Eat my entire ass and choke on it
the chauvinists reveal themselves
Oh hello again Haz, are you here to tell us about how Genghis Khan was a communist or you still embattled in attempting to discern between urethras, anuses and cervixes? Here's another fun one for you; cloacas. Why don't you go and look at some of those for a while
Make up another strawman and make crude sexual remarks to someone else lib
OK sorry, here's a pig shitting on its balls by way of apology :PIGPOOPBALLS:
Welcome to the new world order, you're being dragged kicking and screaming from your imperial perch.
Z
You have to like Z_Poster. Z_Poster is more than a president. Z_Poster is an idea, a world-historical hero/ine, light itself.
:I-was-saying: I was saying Z
Never leave us, brave poster!
:meow-hug:
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