Permanently Deleted

  • ziper1221 [none/use name,comrade/them]
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    4 years ago

    Yes. it seems bizarre that when the topic of outdoor housecats comes up, people talk about the handful of birds a year a cat kills like it has any relevance at all to the suburb that has already been devastated. The figure that is usually thrown around (~2 billion birds killed by cats a year) includes feral and stray cats, so really all it does is highlight the importance of spay and neutering.

    • Steely_Gaige [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure if I understand what you're getting at. Like, you think they should be spayed\neutered but allowed to be outside?

      I feel the need to point out, I'm not disagreeing, just trying to be sure about what you mean.

      • ziper1221 [none/use name,comrade/them]
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        4 years ago

        Essentially, yes. A typical housecat isn't a good hunter, anyway, and I don't think animals are fit to live inside. Could you imagine never going outside? better to not have one in the first place.

            • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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              4 years ago

              No, flat earther, I will not waste my time to Google shit for you when it is the first thing that will pop up when you search.

              If you actually cared about correcting yourself and not just taking the opposing side you'd have looked it up already.

              • ziper1221 [none/use name,comrade/them]
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                4 years ago

                We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually, and that un-owned cats cause the majority of this mortality.

                un-owned cats cause the majority of this mortality.

                • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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                  4 years ago

                  Yes, feral cats.

                  Additionally, outdoor cats are just feral cats in function, except someone is sponsoring their invasive activities.

                      • ziper1221 [none/use name,comrade/them]
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                        4 years ago

                        eat shit and die. you are the one that made the initial claims, and failed to back them up. go fuck yourself.

                        http://www.ace-eco.org/vol8/iss2/art3/#killed

                        • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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                          4 years ago

                          Sorry I missed that you're the same person from earlier when replying to inbox messages.

                          https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

                          Here we conduct a systematic review and quantitatively estimate mortality caused by cats in the United States. We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually. Un-owned cats, as opposed to owned pets, cause the majority of this mortality. Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals.

                          Yes, if your argument is that feral cats do more damage than owned "outdoor cats" you are right. There are more feral cats.

                          But to point to feral cats as support for the argument that outdoor cats don't do that much damage is a simple whataboutism. People are pointing out that both are a problem, and deeply intertwined.

                          Outdoor cats make feral cats, they breed with feral cats, they become feral cats. And both hunt equally per-cat. The study is not saying that a feral cat individually kills more than an owned cat, it is saying most of the bird mortality is caused by the population of feral cats which is estimated to be between 60–160 million. Equal or more than the number of owned cats, of which many are not "outdoor cats" and actually have responsible owners.

                          An "outdoor cat" is estimated to kill about 2 birds per week on average, and that is far from your statement of "people talk about the handful of birds a year a cat kills" unless you have some massive hands.

                          • ziper1221 [none/use name,comrade/them]
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                            4 years ago

                            Outdoor cats make feral cats, they breed with feral cats, they become feral cats.

                            Have you ever heard of anything called neutering?

                            And no, both do not "hunt equally per-cat". did you read the study I liked, or even your own?

                            • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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                              4 years ago

                              TNR does not work and that is supported by almost every scientist in the field.

                              Neutering your "outdoor cat" is certainly better than not doing so. But it ignores how outdoor cats still kill hundreds of birds, small lizards, insects, rodents, etc. every year.

                              In no way can you argue outdoor cats is a net benefit. It's ridiculous to take that position beyond a desire for contrarianism.

        • Reversi [none/use name]
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          4 years ago

          better to not have one in the first place.

          That's 90% of pets

          • Prinz1989 [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            Pets are good for human health and can have educational uses as well. Thats more importent than some birds. The decrease in bird population is much more related to insecticides and the suburbs usually kill or drive out all natural predators who would also kill birds.

            • eiknat [comrade/them]
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              4 years ago

              just because something is good for human health doesn't give humans the right to destroy the ecosystem. companion animals are fine but it's your responsibility to make sure they're not harming the ecosystem you share with billions of other lives.

            • HKBFG [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              Keep your cat inside you fucking liberal.

        • CommieElon [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          We put our cat out on a leash and let him do his thing in the yard. Cats absolutely kill wild birds.

        • Steely_Gaige [none/use name]
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          4 years ago

          Yeah, I agree with that. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak on the exact effect it has on the environment or anything, but definitely spay and neuter. Every animal I've had has come from the pound, spayed neutered, etc.

    • HKBFG [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      The human can be better for the ecosystem by keeping the cat inside.

    • modsarefascist [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      cus it's not about the enviroment, it's just people who hate cats. these same people were saying it should be okay to kill your neighbors cat cus it walked in your yard. now they're spreading the entirely unscientific idea that cats are some massive bird killer, even though every actual study done with peer review has shown they're not a problem (other than on islands or aus/nz, different ecosystem there)

      • HKBFG [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Science isn't a conspiracy to denigrate cats.