My personal favorite for flawed reasons is Madoka because I was there for the live reactions to the infamous episode and it was magical watching everyone lose their shit. It was also my re-introduction to anime after being shamed out of it for liking sailor moon as a kid.
Cabin In The Woods and Tucker and Dale vs Evil for horror
Discworld for fantasy
I love discworld, especially the one about night guardsman.
I avoid horror movies but I’ll check those out.
From what I remember Tucker and Dale is very much a horror comedy, and Cabin in the Woods has a very strong comedy/post modern commentary thing going on. They're both very different from conventional horror movies.
There we were minding our own business, just doing chores around the house, when kids started killing themselves all over my property.
Nathan For You is a pretty good deconstruction/satire of the home renovation/business renovation cable TV shows
It's one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. Ignoring all of the trope deconstruction, it's just really well made absurdist comedy
Big fan of Madoka myself! I went in blind years after it came out, more shocking than the ending of gambo tbh.
As far as deconstructions of games go, Undertale is up there as one of the greats. The route that most blind players will take will be to get the neutral ending and then go back and get the pacifist one (then go back again and get the real one), but the more you go for completion the more the game begins to judge you. You learn that the villain Flowey is literally a completionist who is bored and acting evil to see what will happen - and then if you follow in his footsteps you become more evil than he ever was, all just to see what will happen.
Deltarune is attacking the fourth wall from a slightly different direction, with the player and the main character seemingly in a struggle for control over the game. It's neat, but until it's finished it's hard to say if it will surpass the original.
Madoka is great but still i would hold back from the deconstruction label. Dark and fucked up magical stories in the magical girl genre existed before, Madoka just executed greatly while being towards the most fucked up side of things available. Dont think its a deconstruction tho
That all sounds dope as hell. Would you rec one over the the other to start with? Madoka was one of my first anime so it kinda spoiled me, but on the plus side I’ll always enjoy a new show by gen.
Snow Crash is the best Cyberpunk novel, which codified many tropes in the Cyberpunk genre, but is also a ridiculous, nearly slapstick satire of Cyberpunk.
Starship Troopers is a classic deconstruction of the war movie
I love snow crash. I read it immediately after nueromancer.
I also watched starship troopers (albeit years later) because I read the book as a kid and my dad wouldn’t let me watch the movie until I was older (probably a good call).
Kind of a lame answer:Undertale. But not for the nonviolence thing, which had already been done before. I'm talking about the whole concept of the no mercy route, with Flowey being treated as an analogue for the player. It's great commentary on the way we approach games, and it does it all without disappearing inside it's own ass, which is impressive (though the LV and EXP thing still makes me roll my eyes).
Your answer and others have convinced me I need to check it out. So don’t be down on yourself. If group wisdom is a thing (spoiler alert: it is) you’re in good company. You’ve added onto the answers others had and more thoroughly convinced me to check it out. Thank you for taking the time to answer
Yeah the genocide route is what makes Undertale special. Even if you don't go for that ending you're still aware of its presence
Is that rare here? I guess it is kinda sus tbh, but I don’t want to be disappointed so maybe don’t be too honest lol
Honestly, I'd be surprised if it wasn't popular here. A pretty common interpretation, imo, is that
spoiler
Kyuubey represents capitalism and patriarchy, among other things. I also have compelling evidence that he was behind 9/11.
That’s dope and mind expanding because I never considered that. I just assumed the hate boner this place has for anime meant anything that could be considered loli is haram.
kyubey is exploiting young girls into sacrificing their lives to make an abstract number go up while telling them that this is actually empowering. i don't have much beyond that, but you could definitely find a valid reading.
Such a good show. I know the chans are bad, but looking up the archive of the live discussion thread for episode 3 is always a laugh. Urabuchi perfected the bait and switch tbh.
There’s more than one, but googling “archive madoka episode 3 chan” comes up with multiple
Yeee, I’ll link the specific one I’m referring to if I can find before getting too sleepy. Multiple lokos deep at this point lmao
utena for gender and romances with plotlines about underaged girls with adult men
evangelion for high school romcoms (joke answer, but also real)
umineko for mysteries. kind of. more a deep examination of the genre, but it deconstructs a certain kind of fan very well
Uhhhhhh first sounds sus ngl.
Evngeluon wars a game changer the kinda show with a clear before and after delineation.
Ever heard of that third one. Adding it to my watch list, thanks for the rec!
Edit: my reaction to utena wasn’t as charitable as it could be. Care to elaborate a bit because I really want to be charitable but as a massive weeb I’m super suspicious of Loli stuff because that’s like the original sin of anime.
Utena is NOT sus, it’s about how harmful the older prince trope is and it’s also a coming of age about growing up as a queer girl. It’s my favorite anime I’ve ever watched
Ever heard of that third one. Adding it to my watch list, thanks for the rec!
I'll second Umineko, but the anime is straight trash. The VN is really the only medium worth watching imo. You can torrent it but I think it's also on steam although it's pretty expensive and it has terrible character models. Just torrent it anyway.
Edit: I forgot the manga for Umineko is actually really good too. If you don't want to torrent anything that's the next best thing.
If you like that, the same author also did something similar in Higurashi but instead of mystery novels it's dating sims. The anime for that is better but still misses some minor points. Steam version of the VNs also have terrible character models so torrenting is your best bet as well.
I forgot about the manga tbh, updated my original comment to include it.
will elaborate on the non-eva stuff.
utena isn't really sus though it has a bunch of content that is. my personal favorite anime of all time, it's by kunihiko ikuhara, who worked on sailor moon. this next bit is my personal interpretation, but i think it's mostly accurate. he was the showrunner for 2 seasons of sailor moon (seasons 2 and 3) and directed the first movie. while working on the show he seemed to not really like tuxedo mask, downplaying his role from the manga in a lot of ways. i have heard, but don't have a source, that he wanted to kill him off for good. the "loli" stuff is in many ways a reaction to that. it's him saying "why is middle schooler sailor moon, role model to young girls across japan, dating a college student? that's gross and a shitty message to send!" so he makes revolutionary girl utena, which is about a lot of things, but it's also about that. the main character isn't really sexualized at all, and the closest the show comes is played for pure horror.
in addition to all that it might be the gayest television show ever made. not a single character isn't at least implied to be bi, and the centerpiece emotional core of the series is the romance between utena and anthy. it's also a very surreal show, with many of these elements being alluded to abstractly. lots of symbolism and stuff, which i wrote several thousand words on earlier this week explaining some of them to a fellow poster here, and which i will happily show you if you want after watching the series.content warnings
grooming of a minor
statutory rape of said minor
incest
huge amounts of misogyny, mostly manifesting as physical abuse of female characters, but lots of casual dialogue stuff as well.
some casual homophobia, but not much, and most of it is internalized stuff coming from the main character
animal abuse (both funny and not funny)
and there's some stabbing, swordfighting, etc.i think that's most of it, but if there's anything in particular not on this list or you need clarification just ask. none of this stuff is presented as good, it's all very critically done, and i can't recommend the series enough. you should for sure watch it.
anyways moving on to umineko (and papercarot is right, don't watch the anime. it's a mystery but the anime fucks up the clues and makes it unsolvable, in addition to just being very bad)
umineko is a visual novel made by ryukishi07 (who made higurashi if you've heard of that, which umineko is a sort of spiritual successor to, and is writing one of the new silent hill games announced recently). he does all the art and writing and coding himself, and only brings in outside help on the music, which all slaps. it was originally a pc doujin (an indie game released on cd's sold at conventions) and got adapted for the ps3, which is where the voice acting comes from. imo the ideal way to play is with ryukishi's original sprites (which are very charming, but he's clearly an amateur artist) and the voice acting from the ps3 release, which takes a little bit of modding. don't play with the paremovedo sprites, which are the default for the steam release. they suck
basically the plot is: it is october 1986. a family of rich assholes is trapped with their servants by a typhoon on their private island on a family vacation where they're discussing the family inheritance, as the patriarch kinzo is dying and has only 3 months left to live. after half a novels worth of this drama (which is all very well done) people start dying mysteriously, with the servants claiming this is the work of the golden witch beatrice, who's been haunting the island ever since granting kinzo his wealth through some kind of ritual. battler, the main character, thinks this is horseshit and intends to prove it's possible for a person to have done these killings. to go much beyond that would be a spoiler. there are 8 episodes, each a novel in their own right, and this only goes partway through the first. this is because the true premise of the series is a twist best experienced blind, but if you want to know it's behind this spoiler, though nothing beyond the end of episode 1.
spoiler
so in higurashi at the end of every episode (each episode ending with the entire cast having died horribly) there was something called an all cast review, where the characters would sit around and discuss what just happen. they'd argue over if there was magic involved, or if certain characters could be trusted, things of that nature. they were fairly simple and were kind of meant as a treat for fans to reassure them that they'd see the characters again and it wouldn't all just be miserable the whole time.
in umineko after everyone dies at the end of the first episode, you unlock a tea party. at first this seems similar, with the characters engaging in a lighthearted discussion, and all concluding that the murders were impossible for a human to do, so it must have been beatrice. but then battler tells them all "hey. witches aren't real, what are you guys talking about" and starts arguing. soon beatrice herself shows up and demands he acknowledge her. he refuses, and as such she challenges him to a game. she'll redo the murders again and again, and he'll have to find a human culprit theory she can't disprove. if he ever acknowledges her as a witch and as the true culprit, she wins. if he manages to find a valid theory she can't disprove, he wins. and that's the actual premise of umineko
also there's a lot of content that deserves warning, though beyond violence (it's a murder mystery) just about all of it is something of a spoiler, given the mystery aspect. the first spoiler box doesn't have anything not found in the first episode though
umineko content warnings (lots of spoilers!)
violence (lots of gruesome bodies found)
abuse (primarily parents towards children, but some spousal abuse as well) (includes some sexual abuse)this is where i should mention that ryukishi07 was a social worker, and so has a good understanding of abuse and how it functions
battler is kind of a shitty anime pervert. this doesn't come up much after the first hour or so, but he does make lots of comments about peoples tits, and acts like he's going to grope one of the servants. it's never that bad, but it's there, and even being thematically important doesn't make it ok
servants constantly treated like shitnow we enter the MEGA SPOILER ZONE. the MEGA SPOILER ZONE has spoilers for the ending of this mystery, and should not be clicked unless you are cool with that
MEGA SPOILER ZONE
seriously this won't tell you who the culprit is, but the fact that there's a true culprit is something of a spoiler in its own right, and should not be clicked unless you're fine knowing lots of details about them that might help you figure it out early
MEGA ULTRA SPOILER ZONE
no seriously don't click unless you don't care about solving the mystery
SUPER MEGA ULTRA ALPHA OMEGA SPOILERS
the culprit is transgender and possibly plural depending on your reading. this is handled very well imo, and in many ways they are the most sympathetic character in the story, but these are often done poorly and i would understand being turned off by it
their backstory includes (probably, it's somewhat ambiguous) being assigned male at birth but forcibly reassigned female, meaning all gender talk is weird. in an alternate reality where this didn't happen, we see that they are openly non-binary, so this did not make them trans, but it's there, and you'd better believe transphobes use this to argue they aren't actually trans, they're just [gender they present as]
they are the product of incest, in which a man raped his daughter. part of their motivation is based on this.umineko has many trans fans, including myself, so please don't let this turn you off if you read this far, it's all super well done and it's beautifully told with a lot of respect for them. they aren't the only trans/non-binary character, and there are several other characters who are super queer. despite all this ultimately umineko is about love
.
anyways umineko good, you should read it. not just a depressing slog either, it's got some funny bits, it's got some cool anime fights at times, it's got some ace attorney logic battles. good shit
Imo Utena fandom is much better than eva fandom cause despite their show being an actual deconstruction they dont focus too much on it or bring it up as a measure of matureness and quality while Eva fandom does circlejerk over it being a deconstruction to an annoying degree while it isnt
Tim Heidecker comedy special, where his whole hour bit is just him being a compilation of hack mysoginist comedians
Him doing the Joe Rogan knockoff with the Fuddruckers sign was :chefs-kiss:
Isis, the band. The album deconstructing towers is pretty great and their music from that album's time period can only be described as a deconstruction of metal/rock/music itself
Yoooo my brother in metal! That sounds awesome. I love music but am also musically illiterate. Would you be so kind as to explain/link how it’s a deconstruction? I believe you and love metal myself, but I’m also a dumbass so please don’t take this as calling out the validity of your response.
I'm having a hard time putting into words. Their songs deviate from the rigidity or rules of music in a way. Whether it be subtly like arranging their songs in a non standard way or mixing the volume in a jarring way or something more intense like playing a single beat of music (a single note) followed by a beat of pure feedback screech.
Honestly just listen to the album and you'll see what I'm saying I hope
Hell yeah my dude, I appreciate the attempt. I’m at the level of drunk where music is sex rn so I’ll edit this into something not useless after I check it out.
So I just listened to it. I can’t describe it either, BUT ITS FUCKING AWESOME. Hell yeah my dude you just introduced someone to a band they like. And that’s like one of the best things you can do because music brings joy.
Seriously, thank you.
Another Isis (the band) fan :lets-fucking-go:
Deconstructing Towers is from Celestial, their first album. I'll never forget the legendary feedback section
I need a good one for Isekai, Re:Zero is kinda good, but eh. Isekai has so much potential to be more than just some white straight male power fantasy.
I like that one! Its kinda fun. The AOT reference was hilarious.
Oh shit, you mean the “titan faces”? I’m only a couple episodes deep tbh
Edit: if you like that check out grand blue
grand blue
Will check out! And the journey gets far far far far far more hilarious from there. Also painful from the amount of second-hand embarrassment (if you are one for that)
I’m a sucker for cringe because I myself am super cringe. Can barely finish some IASIP episodes.
For real though, grand blue is by far the funniest anime I’ve seen. It’s basically college hijinks the show (with beautiful water animation because scuba diving). So many good recruit faces as well.
Fair warning: some of the humor is very bro-ish, bits it’s played in that manner because the characters are mostly college bros doing drunk bro shit. The worst examples do get called out and learn from it.
Edit: it’s overall very wholesome and funny. Relatable to anyone who has done stupid things while young, drunk, and surrounded by friends.
The one where the girl was reincarnated in an otome game was fun. I liked watching her get the friendship route with everyone, including her political marriage fiance.
Since im a mecha head letme give you my favorite deconstruction of the genre,
EvangelionPatlabor. You can also argue that the original Gundam in 1979 deserves the deconstruction label much more than Eva when seen in context of the super robot genre that dominated for a decade leading to itIn general 90% of the time you hear an anime being talked as a genre "deconsturction" it really isnt and that takes nothing away from said shows. Its a buzzword at this point that was ascribed to shows by fandoms and people wanting it and them to feel intellectually more mature and superior to other stuff in the genre and is now taken as a fact. Mainly for stuff like Eva, HxH and even Madoka to a degree. It often comes from a lack of exposure or knowledge in the western fandom of the history of those genres in anime and what other stuff inspired and led to these shows .With dozens of shows doing the stuff Eva or Madoka are called "deconstructions" for but less polished or focused on them.
Subverting or breaking of from existing genre trends or focusing more on the darkest and more mature aspects of the genre doesnt make an anime a decunstruction . It usualy amounts to "<Show X> is different from other shows in its genre, little of which I have actually seen, and i have seen people call it a deconstruction so its that" and comes from other people having terminal TV Tropes brain and labeling stuff as such
If you go and suggest to anyone involved with lets say the creation of Eva , and especially my large adult son Anno, that Evangelion is a deconstruction fo mecha they would :jesse-wtf:
I think a lot of the "Eva is deconstruction of the mecha genre" discourse is due to the limited amount of mecha anime that was easily accessible at the time it initially got popular outside of Japan. People would have seen, like, Gundam Wing (lol), original Gundam, Robotech, and maybe bits of pieces of random things (I distinctly remember seeing a few episodes of old Tetsujin #28 as "Gigantor").
Now we have easy access to all the deep cuts and can see it has always been sad boys with parental issues forced into the robot (at least as long as Tomino has been around).
i think eva genuinely does have some deconstructive elements to it, but they're focused on the high school drama/romcom side of things. part of it is definitely the influence eva would have on those genres and it's hard to say just how much, but shinji's relationships with asuka and rei comes across as kind of a vicious satire on that sort of wish fulfillment high school fantasy that was starting to really take off
anno definitely wouldn't agree that eva deconstructs mecha, the mecha side of things is mostly fairly straightforward, but i bet he'd be willing to agree that it's at least partly a criticism of that sort of otaku brain.
There's a slasher movie, I think it's called something like "The Final Girl".
A lot of ink has been spilled about how it satirises a lot of tropes from the slasher genre (imho not in ways that haven't already been done more originally), but what I like about it is how it deconstructs the 80's nostalgia bullshit that seems omnipresent.
Like, shit like "Stranger Things" are almost a complete whitewash of the conservative views of 80's Americans, but this film doesn't really hesitate to show how casual it was back then.
CW for anyone who does end up watching it, there is a whole bunch of slurs thrown around over the course of the film, it's even played for laughs in one scene where the stereotypical jock fuckboy repeatedly calls one the main cast a removed and gets up in his face as if he's about to beat him up over it only to end his rant by bringing up that he's attracted to men.
That does sound like what I was looking for, but I think I’ll pass because I am having a hard time with homophobia rn tbh. I appreciate the rec and the cw. Please don’t my passing in on it as judgement against your taste
Yeah it's fine, I wouldn't CW if I didn't think it would be a problem for people.
You sound like a person with good taste in general (and very polite) do you have any recs that might not be triggering?
In order to be fair: I have a rec in case you haven’t checked it out already. From another world is a show that treats homosexuality as normal because it is actually mandated in the young people. I know that’s kinda weird, but it pulls it off.
Cheers
Sorry, but I can't think of anything to recommend right now. Honestly I've been a bit bogged down with assignments to watch much recently.
Good luck with those assignments! I doubt I can be any help, but post here and I’m sure a lot of us are gonna try to be helpful. Wreck that school shit comrade!
IDK if it counts as a deconstruction, but Axiom Verge is a spiritual successor to Metroid and makes game mechanics out of all the glitchiness in NES-era games. One of the first powerups lets you fidget against walls and clip through them, and you can bug out objects/enemies to make them act like different ones.
That one has been sitting in my Steam list for years now, but I only recently got used to the idea of playing PC games with a controller, and as someone who cut their teeth on the NES I think I'll give it a shot, based on your analysis.
