There really needs to be some solid communist dating advice for these young men, other than "just be yourself" and "be a good person" kind of stuff. Like real, concrete steps on how a guy can be diverted from the incel/pua/tate path. Tbh a lot of the pua advice is common sense stuff (try to groom yourself well, don't be afraid to put yourself out there, etc.).
I remember there were some good comments in a thread somewhere here (I'm pretty sure it was on c/menby but I can't seem to find it)
The problem with this crowd is not that they can't get laid, the problem is that they build their identity around their sex life (and not just them tbh) and then become depressed when they don't succeed. Grooming yourself won't save you from entitlement and if you are trying to come at it from that way, you're not gonna succeed.
All the people i know who were saved from these people (and i know this for a fact because it was me who tried to save them) were saved by making them understand that their misery comes from within because they are chasing a vision of masculinity that is toxic as fuck to begin with and they are acting on instincts that they should recognize and do something against (I'm not talking about sexual urges, i'm talking about dwelling on rejection and centering your life around your sexual achievements). Literally all their lives turned around when they came to the realization, regardless of their successes in dating (but that part got better as well).
When this topic comes up i always think of that article about incels a few years ago with BBC where they were telling about this tendency to senior virgins (like 70-90 years olds, not religious shit) and they were all shocked because they were never that distressed about not getting laid since it wasn't a status symbol in their time.
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My identity is based around the fact that basically everyone that I knew of in my early childhood resented me, and the mannerisms that I held as a consequence of my autism. So I got the shit beaten out of me by my teachers, while my parents descended into self-loathing & alcoholism, and I was alternately shunned or antagonized by my "peers" around me. Very little of that ever actually changed as I grew up, and I'm still dealing with the physical consequences of that upbringing today, tbh.
So, even before we get to the idea of sex, at a fundamental level I don't really conceive of myself as being a legitimate member of society. I don't belong around real people, is what I mean by that. Or the way I remember articulating the matter to my grandmother when she asked me why I didn't want to "make friends", is that "I don't want to try to be friends with anybody, because everyone already hates me no matter what I do". That's something I said nearly two decades ago now, and it still feels mostly true.
And so I guess the thing that you could say about it, that informs my basic perspective on a lot of things, is that I don't really have any actually-existing basis on which to believe in much of anything about mutual solidarity, or like, the inherent goodness or value of people. Like there is nothing there, it is all as the wind, intangible & ungraspable. And like, I guess that effects the way that I think these issues, both at a personal & social level.
Okay, your case might be different but you are here and not on incel forums.
IDK, do you have anything to say about my weird takes before I delete them?
No, feel free to do so
IDK. I want feedback. :/
Sorry, i just didn't know what to say.
The problem with what you devised is - at least as far as i can remember - that it depends on the individual what they constitute as a meaningful relationship. For some it's sex. For some it's friendship. It's too uhh liquid (?) a concept imo to be considered as human rights unlike housing or food. But i guess "for everyone whatever they need" would comprise of these problems as well.
The thing is i don't believe in "rights" as a formal concept anyway so again i don't know if i am the right person to talk to about this.
Your previous statements are fair, but with regards to this, I feel like I have to, because if I completely discard the idea of rights then there's no basis on which I can say that anything bad that anyone does to me is unjustified.
You're right, there has to be a standard to that and maybe i wasn't clear but i am only against it's formal use, as in, since i am an anarchist, my conception of rights isn't a set of moral baselines coded in law but as an unwritten bare minimum i adhere myself to.
That is fair.
I appreciate that you were willing to continue speaking with me for at least a little bit longer. TY. I hope your weekend has been good; mine is okay.
Yeah, it's cool for me. Heading out to see some friends i haven't seen in ages tomorrow.
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We can't secure the outcomes as rights, but we can secure reasonable opportunities and support as rights.
I don't think you have the thought process of an incel. Incels reify gender essentialism and actively blame other people. It is human to have a desire for other human beings, and to feel frustrated when there is no outlet for this and the desires go nowhere. Although I have dated a few people starting in my 20s, I have been in your shoes. And I agree that we should be building a society where people are free to associate with each other, discover each other, trust in each other, fall in love with each other. We can't guarantee that it happens, but we can tip the scales in that direction.
I was shocked at how people here called you "incel" for expressing your frustrations constructively and thoughtfully. It was a stark difference between the sentiment in the post yesterday with the "[how to go about] Fucking Trans Women" zine.
Again, I'd be happy to chat privately, or even play some vidya with you - that was a form of socialization that kept me sane when I was a hermit. :meow-hug:
The what now?
:jesse-wtf:
Okay, so you've made this offer to me a couple times in dms & elsewhere. I'm not exactly upset by it, and I do appreciate you going out of your way to engage positively with me here, but I'm not 100% interested right now. I am actually moving forward with some of my own independent life-plans rn; and things may not get strictly "better", but they're changing & I want to try to continue pursuing things on my own rn. I hope you understand, y'know.
https://hexbear.net/post/230108
Not that high-profile but still fresh in my mind. "I hope every other progressive-minded person finds fulfilment too" is a good take.
And I just wanted to make sure there was something going for you. I don't want anyone to be alone -- besides the committed, lifelong reactionaries who are too far gone.