I found a comment explaining this perfectly NOTE THIS IS NOT MY OWN COMMENT.

"No. Please stop upvoting this a-historical drivel.

Islamic terrorists (specifically, Al Qaeda, which carried out the 9/11 attacks) were not aiming to "cripple" the United States. They didn't attack us because they hate our freedoms or want to change the way we conduct our own business. This is a fantastically amero-centric view and is plainly incorrect.

If you want to know why the United States was attacked, Osama Bin Laden was a fairly prolific writer, and has happily stated his goals, both before and after the attack. I'm now going to copy and paste in a comment posted on reddit a long time ago that covers this very accurately, by quoting him directly:

Technically, Osama bin laden himself stated 9/11 was to wake up the american people, commit an act so harsh towards actual Americans that they would ask "why me?" and research the situation. Eventually finding out that they had been attacked because of their countries foreign policy in the middle east. Removing American military bases from Saudi Arabia and cutting off support to regimes like Israel.

This as we know, did not happen. Most Americans didn't even bother to ask why it happened and just assumed it was all about religion and backed retaliation. Americas presence is bigger than it ever was in the middle east, and Israel still gets funded billions in military aid.

The Terrorists have not won. Their goal wasn't for you to get patted down in an airport ffs. The goal wasn't even to "terrorise" you into living in constant fear where the word terrorist comes from. Their goal was to get you to rise up against your own government to make sure this never happened again.

So no, the terrorists lost, the american people lost, the only winner is the actual US government who got more control, both over it's own people and the people of the middle east.

This whole "The terrorist won" talk every time the government crosses the line cheapens the actual complexity of the situation, and proves that people have no idea what the fuck went on and why in the first place.

Edit: For those interested here are some Osama Bin Laden quotes after 9/11. Stating his goals and his reasons. These are all in his videos that he released, but the American media cherry picked just the quotes that promised another attack, rather than the reason behind them. He even moans of this.

Osama mocking Bushes 'They attack us because they are jealous of our freedom' line: "Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 hijackers. No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. " - Osama Bin Laden.

Again reaffirming that 911 was get the Americans to question its route cause:

"No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again." - Osama Bin Laden

Osama getting pissed that the majority of Americans are still ignorant about the reasons, stating he is "amazed at you":

"But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred." -

Osama Bin Laden

Probably the most insightful statement into Osamas psyche, is the reason he became an anti-American terrorist in the first place.

"I say to you, God knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind. The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced. I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy. The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond. In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors. And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children. And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance." - Osama Bin Laden.

His acceptance as 'the villian' so to speak, his acceptance of being labelled a terrorist:

"So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary? Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us." - Osama Bin Laden

In response to Bush invading Afghanistan and now Iraq, Osama while explaining what happened to the soviets says he'll retaliate by bankrupting America

"So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations - whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction - has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results." - Osama Bin Laden, 2004

Explaining to the American people that they are the real losers:

"...but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is ... you." - Osama Bin Laden

Rambling about Americas dealing in the middle east again as the reason 'your allies in palestine' is Israel:

"Be aware that it is the nation who punishes the weak man when he causes the killing of one of its citizens for money, while letting the powerful one get off, when he causes the killing of more than 1000 of its sons, also for money. And the same goes for your allies in Palestine. They terrorise the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction." - Osama Bin Laden

Again reaffirms that he wants the American people to hold the government responsible for their policy in the middle east, directly linking it to 911.

"Among the most important of what I read in them was some prose in their gestures before the collapse, where they say: "How mistaken we were to have allowed the White House to implement its aggressive foreign policies against the weak without supervision." It is as if they were telling you, the people of America: "Hold to account those who have caused us to be killed, and happy is he who learns from others' mistakes." And among that which I read in their gestures is a verse of poetry. "Injustice chases its people, and how unhealthy the bed of tyranny." As has been said: "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure."" - Osama Bin Laden.

And a very simple warning from him:

"In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No. Your security is in your own hands." - Osama Bin Laden

Tl;dr - Al Qaeda just wanted us to leave them alone. They don't give a fuck about our domestic policies or our "freedoms". They care about their own, and wanted us to stop meddling in the Middle East. They were as disappointed with the results of the September 11th attacks as we are.

  • BaptizedNRG [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    I mean terrorism is motivated by politics more than it is by hatred, of course.

    So how do we as leftists apply the lessons of 9/11?

    Next time some accelerationist tells you to shoot cops or something, or tries to convince you about "propaganda of the deed," remember that terrorism is ALWAYS about PR, and as of now, the capitalist state has a better PR apparatus than you do.

    Is there any possible universe where our parents WOULDN'T have been terrified by 9/11 straight into the arms of endless war? Can you imagine those grieving citizens thinking "Hold on, lemme ask Al-Quaeda why they did it"? Please.

    Sure, Osama bin Laden had a better understanding of the brutality of American foreign policy than pretty much any average American. That's nothing special. Ask any person in the Middle East about American foreign policy and you'll see justifiable rage. But the man was utter dogshit about his theory of change. I mean seriously, it was "maybe they'll withdraw from the Middle East if we blow up some buildings". For fuck's sake, that's like a parody.

    You know what stopped the Americans in Vietnam? The training and support of the population, not a few adventurist leftists with a truck bomb or an airplane.

    The difference between us and reactionaries is that our theory is class-based, not individualistic. I've seen way too much accelerationist rhetoric on left forums, and it pisses me off. It's going to get people killed and will only embolden the right wing press. Only the working class can defeat the ruling class, not you, your buddies, and a few Kalashnikovs.

    But regardless of whether you agree with me or not, we can all agree on death to America, of course.

    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      I try to envision a world in which 9/11 didnt happen and its not good imo, and thats something people need to reconcile with. 9/11 presented a distinct change in american consciousness which marked a stark difference between the previous 20 years and following 20, so i really do think that his goals to do that did actually work out in some way. Whether its enough to actually lead to any meaningful opposition to the us empire is a different question tho.

      • BaptizedNRG [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        I mean if you think getting yourself killed because you tried to blow up a police station with tannerite and an AR is a good idea, you do you. I'm saying the working class needs to organize to be effective. That might be actual Marxism.

  • ItGoesItGoes [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    Amazing post, I never would have thought that Osama was so woke.

    As far as I know, he was trained by the CIA, right? Is there any information about what made him change? Is it known whether he regretted working for the CIA?

    Edit: correct me if I'm wrong

    • REallyN [she/her,they/them]
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      4 years ago

      It's been years since I read about the Soviet-Afghan War, and when I did I was a lib, but from what I remember the Mujihadeen weren't a fully united organization, it was various groups with different aims with the common cause of fighting the Soviets. I don't think the CIA worked with all of these groups and I don't think Osama worked with them, but there is that british headline about him, so maybe he did and I am misremembering. I imagine if he did he viewed it as pragmatic, since it would have to be after 82 probably.

  • half_giraffe [comrade/them]
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    4 years ago

    Thank you for this, it's an incredible post. If someone else is confused about the context of the original post, I'm sure this is in reference to (from what I remember) a much shared post about how the stated goal of the 9/11 attacks was to drag the US into a forever war, reducing private rights and bankrupting the country. Basically it's a bastardization of that 2004 quote where Osama basically says "fuck it, the original plan didn't work so I guess we'll just have to bankrupt them." The original post contends that Osama could like, see the future, and was playing some 5D chess where he wanted to destroy America by condemning the entirety of the middle east to die by American missiles.

    Again, thanks for this - even though I knew the "they hated us for their freedom shit" was an obvious lie having quotes from the big man himself really dispel any alternative narrative.

    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      Yeah, and i'd add to the original comment that in many ways 9/11 did awaken a lot of people though. it marks a distinct change in the general consciousness of a lot of people. lots of the problems with most americans is they dont know conflict, they never experienced this on the daily for years and years like places around the world have and still do because of our foreign policy. our country’s death toll around the world is staggering and people here are entirely removed from it because americans like to distance themselves from what their government does, but we are all responsible at the end of the day for the evils our government has done and continues to do both here and around the world. these individual civilians didnt deserves this, but the country as a whole had this coming and it was our duty to make sure this doesnt happen by reforming and addressing our government not going out and doing even more evil shit around the world. the american government has killed more americans than Al Qaeda has, if people directed their wrath at our government the way we do at other countries we would have a real chance of changing this shit.

      • half_giraffe [comrade/them]
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        4 years ago

        I agree with you in a lot of ways, if I could critique a single point, I think that the sentiment amongst Americans post-9/11 largely came from a media entirely captured by the capitalist class to encourage war. Like yes, Americans at large don't know conflict at home - America missed out on any real devastation during WWII for instance, so even a historical take of home conflict is removed by several generations. But if we actually had a combative and introspective press in this country there would have been another narrative other than "they hate us for our freedoms" - this is obviously a point against having a capitalist press altogether.

        But again, I agree with you - the people in the towers didn't deserve to die, but America in general deserved far worse for the decades of wars, genocides, and coups committed by or propped up the American imperialist regime.

    • lvysaur [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      The difference is in their names; one is b-tier while the other is s-tier

  • throwawaylemmy [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    Technically, Osama bin laden himself stated 9/11 was to wake up the american people, commit an act so harsh towards actual Americans that they would ask “why me?” and research the situation.

    I mean, even if that's the case: He failed simply because his "we did it" video didn't outright call it/state his goals IIRC. Unless the news cherrypicked THAT, a lot of the "why me?" was less that and more "why the hell did they attack?"

    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      he might have made a crucial mistake and probably underestimated how much of complete fucking idiots Americans are

      • constantly_dabbing [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        The only self reflection from those empty people is looking at distorted images of themselves on shiny consumer products