Permanently Deleted
:I-was-saying: I remember when we had struggle sessions about transphobic brigaders
Definitely. A cat is way better at killing exotic birds than like, a series of upturned rocks that cause slightly less moisture to be held in the soil and reduce the population of a specific prey insect or whatever
(Also for what little it's worth I would refrain from moving the rocks)
I gotta say it's kinda odd to me that the Navajo have to go through the process of getting a permit and dealing with the tribal government just to get medicine for ceremony or whatever else they need it for. On my reservation if you need anything whether it be sage, sweetgrass you just need a tobacco offering for the land
Isn't the Navajo Nation the most populous? It could just be an issue of scale. That said, I guarantee most people aren't getting a permit.
It is. but it goes against traditions in many indigenous religions to have someone in a position of authority especially in the government to say how someone can pray or regulate it whatever happens between the creator and one person is that person's business alone.
One of the big issues in these discussions that people tend to not think about it is that yeah, if it was just you, the world would be perfectly fine. If it was just you touching rocks, if it was just you tossing trash on the ground, if it was just you doing whatever the individual impact would be negligible. But it's not just you, it's hundreds of thousands, millions, billions of people all doing the same thing over and over with that same line of logic. Even many of the major polluting companies would be fine if it was just that one company.
Sure it feels hopeless to give up something to do better when you know that your action on its own isn't nearly enough to fix enough but that shouldn't be an excuse to just ignore the harm that comes from those actions either. Weigh the options, are you really missing out that much not stacking a bunch of rocks for a boring post on social media that gets five likes? Are you losing out that much because you decided to stick on the trail instead of disturbing all the bugs and microorganisms in the river?
Everything we do will have consequences to the world sure and we're not asking people to never ever have fun, just keep a little bit more in line and let the few remannts of nature we have left be at peace. It was hard enough on those ecosystems to put the trails and camping sites and other human accomodations in the first place, why disturb them more for such little gain?
Leftists thinking mighty individualist for an ideology thats supposed to be inherently collectivist, lol
Exactly, and what is a collection if not just a whole bunch of individuals within a group? What impacts the collection will impact the individual inside and the individual inside and their decisions will have an impact (even if minor) on what the collection is.
For example a fairly implemented ban on smoking in public buildings means that no individual is allowed to smoke in public buildings, even if it wouldn't be nearly as bad if it was just them just this one time.
You don't have to admit that the consequences of moving a rock have been overstated by a few comrades in this community. But saying "I don't have to because of the Navajo nation" feels extra disingenuous. I've been to the Navajo reservation. You can touch and even move most of the rocks. No one cares.
Excellent struggle session prompt.
Edit: Being a little disingenuous is the most important ingredient in a good online struggle session. Sometimes, the struggle is not real!
"I can break the rules and nobody immediately tackles me, that must mean the rules are there for no reason" :brainworms:
I ran into a bus full of kids, and then fled the scene of the crime and no one figured out I did it and prosecuted me for it? Must be ok then.
You can go overboard with the rock stacking. But I assure you that touching and handling most rocks in most circumstances is without either legal or ecological consequences, even on the Navajo reservation. There's some sacred spots I wouldn't even want to look at out of respect, but if I pull over on the side of the road to admire the view, and I pick up a rock to take a good look at it, and then ask a tribal cop who's hiding out there if it's illegal for me to hold this rock, he will be very confused.
As far as rock stacking and land management agencies go, the National Park Service itself has constructed many cairns. It seems to be fine.
As a geologist, yes you are legally supposed to get permits before you mess with rocks. You then bring the permit to a ranger and they laugh at you for bothering to get one (this has literally happened to me, the rock I took is next to me as I type this).
Honestly, this whole struggle sesh reeks of the personal responsibility side of environmentalism. Its dumb to lecture a comrade for moving a rock when :porky-happy: is chugging along as always. Similar energy as libs telling you to :vote: lolYou've spent hundreds of hours. I've spent countless thousands of hours. I've seen where there's consequences and not consequences. This is getting really bizarre.
Just called the Navajo tribal police and asked if I can pick up a rock. They said it's fine as long as I didn't put it down on another rock.
Moving a rock has an extremely minimal, potentially negative effect on the environment in like a 5 foot radius around it, so it's immoral to so much as touch a rock. And this is definitely how normal humans operate.
And this is definitely how normal humans operate.
This is a facetious statement. The geologist said in that thread that moving sediments or rocks have a cumulative, compounding effect that impose upon the environment negative externalities and affects upon the ecosystem around it. And people were arguing that they were justified to do this for aesthetic purposes, which are fleeting and mundane at that.
Perhaps a fitting analogy would be: Drinking soda and eating candy on one day alone isn't terrible, but if you compound it as a daily staple of your diet you will compromise your body's ability to process sugar. If thousands, millions of people do the same you will have an epidemic of obesity and diabetes, straining the health of that society and quality of life of the public health.
You think you know me DO DODODOASDOODFOFDODODOAOSFDOSDOD
ON THIS DAY
I SEE CLEARLY
Fine, but if I get lost on a circular river and don't realize it because I can't put up a rock cairn, who will feed the kids that I don't have when I die? You?
This whole thing really expose how most people here are nerds who never go outside. You really can't go camping or hiking without being at least exposed to the concept of leaving no trace, which means the people who are stacking rocks are doing so knowing that they're not supposed to disturb shit.
Has anyone here actually said that they stack rocks? I haven’t seen it.
It really seems like the rock-leavers are talking most about hydrology and moving rocks from watery areas whereas many rock-movers are talking about rock moving in all circumstances.
If you're in like a dry area (pictured above), it's really not a big deal.
Why on earth do people have an issue with being asked politely not to stack rocks. Is your job a professional rock stacker or something, like seriously wtf :jesse-wtf:
I spent all last weekend playing video games and the whole time I didn't stack a single rock. It's literally so easy.
I cropped out the sentence that says “unless it’s for Instagram.”
Damn you insidious pro rock people :meow-tableflip:
This rule isn't really relevant to the struggle session. You can't legally collect rocks on any private property (tribally owned or not) in the United States without the permission of its owner. This is because almost all forms of property ownership comes with rights over mineral deposits and rocks are included in that.
That prohibition on collecting rocks is a blanket rule intended to prevent someone(s) from heading onto another's land and getting rich from taking gold or other valuable minerals found on it. In this context its worth noting that many Indigenous nations have an especially fraught history with illegal mining on their territory. The rule was not, however, made out of environmental concerns. To that end, you can collect rocks ( up to 25lbs per day) on most BIA land without issue, because they recognize that doing so generally has a negligible environmental impact.
