Anti-war is anti war, full stop. If you're preening and hemming and hawing about how any sort of anti-war action is bad, you're an arm-chair ultra-leftist. The Liberals joined us on the protest line against the Vietnam invasion, abandoned us in the march to massacre Iraq and Afghanistan, and are actively against us in trying to balkanize Russia with China in their cross sights after they're done. The inverse is true with the Republicans, with the caveat that all of this flips once more on its head the moment they trade out the fossil in the white house.
On the singular issue of fighting against american imperialism in the name of Anti-war, you do not get to pick who's joining you on the protest line - that's chosen for you by the historical conditions that lead to this moment in time - you play with the cards you're dealt with and you do your best to push the odds in your favor.
side note, I sure as hell ain't holding my breath for this event, but I'll be increasingly jokerfied if it actually starts gaining ground lmao.
American fascists, such as misanthropic or the atomwaffen's "National Socialist Order", nor are the fascist-infiltrated paramilitary groups aren't organizing anti-war protests, they're either participating in the war and getting blown up right now, or agitating for the war, or attempting to accelerate the american collapse through terrorist actions.
I'm done with this. If you and your org think this is the proper course, I'm not going to talk you out of it and you're not going to talk me into it. I'll tell you this, seeing who you all are willing to align with and who your twitter is platforming, I certainly don't feel like PCUSA are my allies right now.
You're more than entitled to your very respectable opinion. So as long as you're against American imperialism and against NATO intervention in the Ukraine War then I'll personally consider you an ally on the issue.
I would gladly burn this country to the ground and live in relative poverty if it would end American imperialism and I could live in peace with the woman I love.
While I'd much rather see an America in the outlines of Z Foster's 'Towards Soviet America' with some edits for modern circumstances, assuming that's not a possible path towards world socialism and peace, I genuinely hope your wish comes true.
I agree with you. But that's down the road by roughly two years.
Assuming that two years down the road that the ukraine war concludes, biden loses the whitehouse and trump or depantspiss wins. It would be inevitable that the hogs would go out to brunch and the ghouls would start ratcheting up the war machine with China in the cross-sights.
At this assumed future point, I would pivot towards agitating among the disempowered democrats to being anti-war against the republican government, seeing how it's easily more fertile grounds historically.
It’s like voting in the guy who wants to murder kittens cuz you want to get the guy who murders puppies out of office.
No. Nobody is voting. It is like saying killing kittens is bad with some people who probably think killing puppies is ok. They aren't even killing puppies.
That’s not true, I am organizing with ANSWER Coalition, The People’s Forum, PSL, CodePink in a principled event to demand peace. Not a bunch of fascists, libertarians, and patsoc grifters.
So lets get this straight for everyone reading this,
This persons response to the fact that "red/brown alliances are bad" is "nothing can be done without allying with fascists".
So in other words, our hero here want a repeat of what happened to all the communists, bless their hearts, who tried a red/brown alliance in naziland g*rmany during the mid 20th century.
The fascists are whoever is currently in charge of the globe spanning fascist empire, and it is currently the Liberal Democrats acting most fascistic with their warmongering
Quite convenient of you, a comfortable member of the core, to absolve yourself of all responsibility and demand total destruction of everything instead of putting in any effort in uncomfortable coalition building with those who are aligned with your interests currently
I mean, unless you're signatory to the Grand Red/Brown Alliance Treaty all you're doing is giving brown shirts the power to alter your policy choices by doing whatever they want.
Let me, for this comment, speak officially as a cadre of the party. This is purely my opinion and perspective that is resulting from my own personal experience, that is to say what I've seen and what I've heard.
The Party of Communists USA is unilaterally against American Imperialism and any attempt of NATO expansionism into Ukraine. On this critical, and singular, issue that can lead to a world war and nuclear extinction - we have cooperated or participated with any political organization that has this goal as well. This means that if there is a pan-left united front in California that is primarily organized by Trotskyite parties that is organizing anti-war protests, which there is, then PCUSA will participate in coalition to grow the west coast anti-war sentiments, which it has. This means if PSL was organizing an anti-war protest on the east coast against further funding of the Ukraine War and encourages everyone to come and march with them, which they did, then PCUSA will join their protest event and help agitate against the war with them other groups, which it has. If a because by the circumstance of a blue ghoul is in the white house causing a war leads a bunch of hogs and burned out bernie bros to organize an anti-war rally, then any members of PCUSA around there may go there to educate and agitate the people that go there to adopt more anti-war and anti-fascist positions than whatever's planned to be said there.
Secondly, and this is still with my cadre hat on, neither the politburo nor the central committee has made any decision on this because thats a completely irrelevant topic of discussion that would waste valuable time. All clubs can reserve their opinions on the topic and can choose what actions they wish to take to further accomplish their tasks, be that focusing on anti-war agitation, researching historical documents to compile books, entering club members into workplaces with the purpose of unionizing them, doing agitprop art projects, or generally vibing if they're a sole member in an isolated area.
If you have any follow-up questions, or witty comments feel free to state them, be they general or official
Official hat on, I'll forward your comment to the Social Media Department. the split of the ultra-left faction hit the SMD the hardest since all of the splitters were terminally online leftists that manned our internet stuff, which is a shame since they were quite good at it.
And since you tacked on that edit, I'll add that insofar as I am aware on the west coast, when the CPI leadership dissolved itself on the east coast then Maupin undissolved CPI, the west coast CPI split between a few maupin loyalists and quite a few more people that wanted to wash their hands of the group and decided to do their own thing. The group that decided to go their own way are a portion of the pan-left anti-war group ran by Trotskyites and by proximity are the only, formerly associated, 'maupinite' group the party has worked indirectly with since the very fun revelation about his behavior was revealed.
Official hat on, you're welcome. It can take months for any changes to departments by their membership bodies. Additionally it also depends on the individuals composing the collective. An example of this would be that a lot of people would be more affable to the work done by the party LGBT committee (they're working on translating and compiling works of Magnus Hirschfeld) , or the party Animal Rights Committee (they're :im-vegan: ) and some people might not be affable towards other party committees.
We live in a fascist nation filled with fascist imperialists on both sides of the fake political spectrum. Any opposition to war is going to temporarily align with whatever fascist party is out of power, that is no reason not to oppose imperialist war
You had no problem rallying with libertarians in 2001 to oppose the Iraq War because the GOP was in power, so the DNC nag at the back of your head was soothed. Now it’s blaring alarm bells and it still has power over you, you still have residual liberalism holding you down
JFC, I'm not arguing against oppossing the war, quit putting words in my mouth. Starting a coalition with a group of people banging the war drums against China isn't anti-war, it's arguing for the bureaucraric reallocation of resources to another front. This is not opposing war. The only thing will functionally accomplish is laundering the reputation of a bunch of right-wingers who, when the time comes for war with China, will be able to hold up their credentials as having been against "the bad war", so you can trust them when they support "the good war". And they will say "see, even the left knows I'm trustworthy" and show everyone a picture of you and them holding hands.
And no, I didn't have a problem with the Libertarian Party opposing the Iraq War because I was a fucking 13 year old. I've since grown up and realized that you actually aren't going to get many working class people to buy into your message when they see you in a partnership with people who think the minimum wage and labor protections should be abolished.
How is calling for the abolition of NATO and the CIA furthering war towards China?
The Iraq war had a better anti-war movement than the current state of the US, so maybe you should take lessons of mass movements from them and stop being a purity scold, a perfect example of the isolating idealist failures of the western left
Oh, Lt. Col. Tulsi Gabbard is for the dissolution of the CIA and NATO? That's quite a view for an active US Army Officer.
The Iraq war had a better anti-war movement than the current state of the US, so maybe you should take lessons of mass movements from them and stop being a purity scold, a perfect example of the isolating idealist failures of the western left
This tendency stopped the Vietnam War and pressured South Africa into collapsing and stopped support of Rhodesia. All these movements involved libertarians and dumb normal people who don’t have good opinions on everything.
Just to be clear, your good and correct socialist opinion is that anti-war mass movements are pointless and we shouldn’t bother?
No, this tendency did not stop the Vietnam War. What bunch of American-centric nonsense. "Uh actually, it was all the white Americans holding up signs that stopped the Vietnam War". Fierce and effective resistance to imperialism by the Vietnamese people and the massive financial drain that the Vietnamese War caused on the US economy stopped the Vietnam War.
They also weren't the ones who stopped apartheid, either, South Africans stopped apartheid.
And Donald Trump didn't support the Iraq War. How did that go for Palestine? What about Venezuela or Bolivia? Was he actually principled in his anti-war stance, or did he just use his status as being "against the bad war" as a reason for why you should trust him about these "good wars"? Do you think that it benefits the blob to have people like an active US Army officer who they can hold up as "one of the good ones" if and when Ukraine goes really sideways for NATO, so that they can bang the drum for the next war?
Go ahead and oppose the war, but when you do it with some of these people, understand that you are helping to establish their credentials for the future war.
Both CPUSA and PCUSA have joined PSL at their rallies and have had their names left off of their official lists. Even larger trotskyite anti-war parties have participated and had their presence omitted.
I genuinely couldn't tell you why that is, but the answer is still the same. My party, and the members of other Communist parties are participating in the answer rally.
While I'm in complete disagreement with Alaskaball here, this is a stupid fucking comment and you should delete it. Stop fedjacketing people you disagree with.
Anti-war is anti war, full stop. If you're preening and hemming and hawing about how any sort of anti-war action is bad, you're an arm-chair ultra-leftist. The Liberals joined us on the protest line against the Vietnam invasion, abandoned us in the march to massacre Iraq and Afghanistan, and are actively against us in trying to balkanize Russia with China in their cross sights after they're done. The inverse is true with the Republicans, with the caveat that all of this flips once more on its head the moment they trade out the fossil in the white house.
On the singular issue of fighting against american imperialism in the name of Anti-war, you do not get to pick who's joining you on the protest line - that's chosen for you by the historical conditions that lead to this moment in time - you play with the cards you're dealt with and you do your best to push the odds in your favor.
side note, I sure as hell ain't holding my breath for this event, but I'll be increasingly jokerfied if it actually starts gaining ground lmao.
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Are you against American imperialism and against NATO expansionism?
What if I'm against American Imperialism, NATO expansionism, and red/brown alliances?
American fascists, such as misanthropic or the atomwaffen's "National Socialist Order", nor are the fascist-infiltrated paramilitary groups aren't organizing anti-war protests, they're either participating in the war and getting blown up right now, or agitating for the war, or attempting to accelerate the american collapse through terrorist actions.
I'm done with this. If you and your org think this is the proper course, I'm not going to talk you out of it and you're not going to talk me into it. I'll tell you this, seeing who you all are willing to align with and who your twitter is platforming, I certainly don't feel like PCUSA are my allies right now.
You're more than entitled to your very respectable opinion. So as long as you're against American imperialism and against NATO intervention in the Ukraine War then I'll personally consider you an ally on the issue.
I would gladly burn this country to the ground and live in relative poverty if it would end American imperialism and I could live in peace with the woman I love.
While I'd much rather see an America in the outlines of Z Foster's 'Towards Soviet America' with some edits for modern circumstances, assuming that's not a possible path towards world socialism and peace, I genuinely hope your wish comes true.
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to be blunt, unideological right-wing hogs who're usually herded by reactionary sheepdogs towards interests of empire.
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I agree with you. But that's down the road by roughly two years.
Assuming that two years down the road that the ukraine war concludes, biden loses the whitehouse and trump or depantspiss wins. It would be inevitable that the hogs would go out to brunch and the ghouls would start ratcheting up the war machine with China in the cross-sights.
At this assumed future point, I would pivot towards agitating among the disempowered democrats to being anti-war against the republican government, seeing how it's easily more fertile grounds historically.
Loud mouth morons who happen to be saying something reasonable even if it is for all the wrong reasons?
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No. Nobody is voting. It is like saying killing kittens is bad with some people who probably think killing puppies is ok. They aren't even killing puppies.
when they say we should go to war with China I will protest them with the democrats who will be against that war
Principled antiwar activists, apparently.
:doubt:
Then you are alone in your house doing nothing
That’s not true, I am organizing with ANSWER Coalition, The People’s Forum, PSL, CodePink in a principled event to demand peace. Not a bunch of fascists, libertarians, and patsoc grifters.
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So lets get this straight for everyone reading this,
This persons response to the fact that "red/brown alliances are bad" is "nothing can be done without allying with fascists".
So in other words, our hero here want a repeat of what happened to all the communists, bless their hearts, who tried a red/brown alliance in
nazilandg*rmany during the mid 20th century.What a fucking genius.
:amerikkka-clap: :amerikkka-clap: :amerikkka-clap:
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doing something automatically being better than doing nothing is some liberal :brainworms: that some of us apparently still need to work on
don't pour water on a grease fire y'know?
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I'd rather be alone in my house than not alone in my house with Tucker Carlson.
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If the only option to defeat fascists is to align with different fascists, then it's time for the nukes to fly.
The fascists are whoever is currently in charge of the globe spanning fascist empire, and it is currently the Liberal Democrats acting most fascistic with their warmongering
Quite convenient of you, a comfortable member of the core, to absolve yourself of all responsibility and demand total destruction of everything instead of putting in any effort in uncomfortable coalition building with those who are aligned with your interests currently
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I mean, unless you're signatory to the Grand Red/Brown Alliance Treaty all you're doing is giving brown shirts the power to alter your policy choices by doing whatever they want.
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Let me, for this comment, speak officially as a cadre of the party. This is purely my opinion and perspective that is resulting from my own personal experience, that is to say what I've seen and what I've heard.
The Party of Communists USA is unilaterally against American Imperialism and any attempt of NATO expansionism into Ukraine. On this critical, and singular, issue that can lead to a world war and nuclear extinction - we have cooperated or participated with any political organization that has this goal as well. This means that if there is a pan-left united front in California that is primarily organized by Trotskyite parties that is organizing anti-war protests, which there is, then PCUSA will participate in coalition to grow the west coast anti-war sentiments, which it has. This means if PSL was organizing an anti-war protest on the east coast against further funding of the Ukraine War and encourages everyone to come and march with them, which they did, then PCUSA will join their protest event and help agitate against the war with them other groups, which it has. If a because by the circumstance of a blue ghoul is in the white house causing a war leads a bunch of hogs and burned out bernie bros to organize an anti-war rally, then any members of PCUSA around there may go there to educate and agitate the people that go there to adopt more anti-war and anti-fascist positions than whatever's planned to be said there.
Secondly, and this is still with my cadre hat on, neither the politburo nor the central committee has made any decision on this because thats a completely irrelevant topic of discussion that would waste valuable time. All clubs can reserve their opinions on the topic and can choose what actions they wish to take to further accomplish their tasks, be that focusing on anti-war agitation, researching historical documents to compile books, entering club members into workplaces with the purpose of unionizing them, doing agitprop art projects, or generally vibing if they're a sole member in an isolated area.
If you have any follow-up questions, or witty comments feel free to state them, be they general or official
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Official hat on, I'll forward your comment to the Social Media Department. the split of the ultra-left faction hit the SMD the hardest since all of the splitters were terminally online leftists that manned our internet stuff, which is a shame since they were quite good at it.
And since you tacked on that edit, I'll add that insofar as I am aware on the west coast, when the CPI leadership dissolved itself on the east coast then Maupin undissolved CPI, the west coast CPI split between a few maupin loyalists and quite a few more people that wanted to wash their hands of the group and decided to do their own thing. The group that decided to go their own way are a portion of the pan-left anti-war group ran by Trotskyites and by proximity are the only, formerly associated, 'maupinite' group the party has worked indirectly with since the very fun revelation about his behavior was revealed.
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Official hat on, you're welcome. It can take months for any changes to departments by their membership bodies. Additionally it also depends on the individuals composing the collective. An example of this would be that a lot of people would be more affable to the work done by the party LGBT committee (they're working on translating and compiling works of Magnus Hirschfeld) , or the party Animal Rights Committee (they're :im-vegan: ) and some people might not be affable towards other party committees.
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The person saying the event is good and should be supported turning out to support the event isn't exactly a gotcha
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Yeah totally, it's cool to form an "anti-war coalition" with a bunch of people frothing at the mouth for a US-China war.
We live in a fascist nation filled with fascist imperialists on both sides of the fake political spectrum. Any opposition to war is going to temporarily align with whatever fascist party is out of power, that is no reason not to oppose imperialist war
You had no problem rallying with libertarians in 2001 to oppose the Iraq War because the GOP was in power, so the DNC nag at the back of your head was soothed. Now it’s blaring alarm bells and it still has power over you, you still have residual liberalism holding you down
JFC, I'm not arguing against oppossing the war, quit putting words in my mouth. Starting a coalition with a group of people banging the war drums against China isn't anti-war, it's arguing for the bureaucraric reallocation of resources to another front. This is not opposing war. The only thing will functionally accomplish is laundering the reputation of a bunch of right-wingers who, when the time comes for war with China, will be able to hold up their credentials as having been against "the bad war", so you can trust them when they support "the good war". And they will say "see, even the left knows I'm trustworthy" and show everyone a picture of you and them holding hands.
And no, I didn't have a problem with the Libertarian Party opposing the Iraq War because I was a fucking 13 year old. I've since grown up and realized that you actually aren't going to get many working class people to buy into your message when they see you in a partnership with people who think the minimum wage and labor protections should be abolished.
How is calling for the abolition of NATO and the CIA furthering war towards China?
The Iraq war had a better anti-war movement than the current state of the US, so maybe you should take lessons of mass movements from them and stop being a purity scold, a perfect example of the isolating idealist failures of the western left
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Yes I think they are serious about their list of demands. If a mass movement forms around a platform of demands, you must take it seriously
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I think this event is less fascist than the DNC and CIA is
Oh, Lt. Col. Tulsi Gabbard is for the dissolution of the CIA and NATO? That's quite a view for an active US Army Officer.
Yeah, how did that go. Did you stop the Iraq War?
This tendency stopped the Vietnam War and pressured South Africa into collapsing and stopped support of Rhodesia. All these movements involved libertarians and dumb normal people who don’t have good opinions on everything.
Just to be clear, your good and correct socialist opinion is that anti-war mass movements are pointless and we shouldn’t bother?
No, this tendency did not stop the Vietnam War. What bunch of American-centric nonsense. "Uh actually, it was all the white Americans holding up signs that stopped the Vietnam War". Fierce and effective resistance to imperialism by the Vietnamese people and the massive financial drain that the Vietnamese War caused on the US economy stopped the Vietnam War.
They also weren't the ones who stopped apartheid, either, South Africans stopped apartheid.
The white saviors have come to hexbear.
Protesting your empire rampaging across the world is white saviorism actually!
Now I’ve seen it all.
First off I would argue you're confusing the bumbling hogs with the ghoul sheepdogs that want to herd them.
Second off they're frothing at the mouth to stop a US-Russia war in the here and now.
And Donald Trump didn't support the Iraq War. How did that go for Palestine? What about Venezuela or Bolivia? Was he actually principled in his anti-war stance, or did he just use his status as being "against the bad war" as a reason for why you should trust him about these "good wars"? Do you think that it benefits the blob to have people like an active US Army officer who they can hold up as "one of the good ones" if and when Ukraine goes really sideways for NATO, so that they can bang the drum for the next war?
Go ahead and oppose the war, but when you do it with some of these people, understand that you are helping to establish their credentials for the future war.
And democrats are?
If you opposed any war with them in the past understand you actively helped establish their credentials for the present war.
Is your group taking part on the ANSWER rally or are you only organizing with Libertarians and LaRouchites?
We've shown up to every anti-war rally that we've been aware of. It's pretty simple you know.
That's not an answer to my question. Are you officially participating in the ANSWER rally?
That is more than an adequate answer.
Both CPUSA and PCUSA have joined PSL at their rallies and have had their names left off of their official lists. Even larger trotskyite anti-war parties have participated and had their presence omitted.
I genuinely couldn't tell you why that is, but the answer is still the same. My party, and the members of other Communist parties are participating in the answer rally.
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no u
While I'm in complete disagreement with Alaskaball here, this is a stupid fucking comment and you should delete it. Stop fedjacketing people you disagree with.
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