The US' real fight was with Japan for control of the Pacific. Of the units that did fight in Europe, many who saw some of the worst casualties were Black and Asian-American. See the 92nd Infrantry Division and the 442nd Infrantry Regiment.
I mean hell there was an American Nazi Party that was pretty public and active right up until Pearl Harbor.
Edit: I had some bad info about more US troops fighting in the Pacific than in Europe, which was mistaken and incorrect. Please disregard that. I stand by the sentiment that the US was more interested in fighting Japan than Nazi Germany though.
The main USA contribution to the western front was lend-lease and shipping supplies to keep Britain and the USSR afloat. The majority of the ground fighting was done by the Soviet Union. France gave an effort but was knocked out early. Britain contributed a lot to the air war and North Africa but the war was basically over before Operation Overlord.
The nazi high command commissioned a study in 1943 that concluded that in order to win their industry would have to produce more in 1944 than in all the years from 1939-1943, combined. Their goose was cooked.
:bugs-stalin: was gonna win, the wehrmacht had no strategic initiative after Kursk
them and what arms? how were a few parisian street militias with rifles going to stop a bunch of tanks & airplanes? they certainly could've tried and died & any dead nazi is commendable but lets not pretend there was any snatching of victory from the jaws of that defeat. the entire french army less the colonial component & bit fighting the italians was beaten--both too far away to defend paris.
They still had over a million and a half soldiers in the field.
They lost 90k.
Do the math and wonder if they gave up to early. No city can be taken in less than a few weeks of fighting - France is the size of Texas. You could walk to Paris from nearly anywhere in the country in that long.
Their government gave up so socialists wouldn’t take power and run the war. They should rightfully be tarred as Nazi collaborators.
they were outnumbered 2:1 after the encirclement, with the lions share of artillery & tanks gone. and im sure soldiers' morale was tip-top at this point. the soviets did not fight on against odds through pure gumption, they had replaced all the soldiers and equipment lost in the first months by the time of the halting defenses (and remember they had well over the whole length of France overrun themselves). there was neither the time, space, or industry for an equivalent in France
Their government gave up so socialists wouldn’t take power and run the war.
oh my god not this again. the hardline leftists were in jail. the radical socialists (centre-left, ofc) & other limping remains of the Popular Front were literally the ones in charge and sacked/resigned through the poor persecution of the war. the more left wing socialists or communists (miraculously sprung from prisons in german-occupied territory) would not have been able to pull victory from their ass
They should rightfully be tarred as Nazi collaborators
i've got great news about the post-war political fate of petain
Well yes the French government rolled over like a beaten dog but the French soldiers fought pretty hard and they took a lot of casualties. I do agree about their command being shit. I should have said "the French" not "France"
I include wounded as "casualties" but I don't really disagree with you, I just wanted to give some credit to their effort. I'll remove the word "valiant" from my previous post. I stand corrected.
See also how the vast majority of killing and dying was on the eastern front and the western allies swept in when the war was almost over to claim victory. At least people back then gave the Soviet Union the most credit for defeating the Nazis.
And don't forget that China was fighting a heroic resistance against Japanese imperialists, tying up so many IJA troops in counter guerilla operations that America had a much easier time island hopping.
The army committed about 75% of its forces (~11 million by war's end) to Europe and the Mediterranean, but that included a lot of non-combat personnel. The Navy and Marines, about ~4.5 million together, were the main fighting bodies in the pacific, and as any drunk Marine in a pool hall will happily tell you, they're all riflemen first and foremost. Same goes for Navy crews, they were all of them basically in combat or combat support roles.
i have no idea where you got these numbers, this is complete horseshit. 67 divisions were in europe, 27 in the pacific. -proportionally- more americans died in the pacific, but not even in absolute terms, more yanks still died in europe. the US very clearly dedicated more war materiele & personnel to Europe, there's tracts and tracts of words about the US 'Europe First' policy during the war.
The US' real fight was with Japan for control of the Pacific. Of the units that did fight in Europe, many who saw some of the worst casualties were Black and Asian-American. See the 92nd Infrantry Division and the 442nd Infrantry Regiment.
I mean hell there was an American Nazi Party that was pretty public and active right up until Pearl Harbor.
Edit: I had some bad info about more US troops fighting in the Pacific than in Europe, which was mistaken and incorrect. Please disregard that. I stand by the sentiment that the US was more interested in fighting Japan than Nazi Germany though.
deleted by creator
The main USA contribution to the western front was lend-lease and shipping supplies to keep Britain and the USSR afloat. The majority of the ground fighting was done by the Soviet Union. France gave an effort but was knocked out early. Britain contributed a lot to the air war and North Africa but the war was basically over before Operation Overlord.
The nazi high command commissioned a study in 1943 that concluded that in order to win their industry would have to produce more in 1944 than in all the years from 1939-1943, combined. Their goose was cooked.
:bugs-stalin: was gonna win, the wehrmacht had no strategic initiative after Kursk
Frances effort was total shit.
They declared their capital an open city, and gave it up without a fight.
They could have turned the fucker into Stalingrad and mulched a hundred thousands Werhmact but they decided to surrender to the Nazis instead.
them and what arms? how were a few parisian street militias with rifles going to stop a bunch of tanks & airplanes? they certainly could've tried and died & any dead nazi is commendable but lets not pretend there was any snatching of victory from the jaws of that defeat. the entire french army less the colonial component & bit fighting the italians was beaten--both too far away to defend paris.
They still had over a million and a half soldiers in the field.
They lost 90k.
Do the math and wonder if they gave up to early. No city can be taken in less than a few weeks of fighting - France is the size of Texas. You could walk to Paris from nearly anywhere in the country in that long.
Their government gave up so socialists wouldn’t take power and run the war. They should rightfully be tarred as Nazi collaborators.
they were outnumbered 2:1 after the encirclement, with the lions share of artillery & tanks gone. and im sure soldiers' morale was tip-top at this point. the soviets did not fight on against odds through pure gumption, they had replaced all the soldiers and equipment lost in the first months by the time of the halting defenses (and remember they had well over the whole length of France overrun themselves). there was neither the time, space, or industry for an equivalent in France
oh my god not this again. the hardline leftists were in jail. the radical socialists (centre-left, ofc) & other limping remains of the Popular Front were literally the ones in charge and sacked/resigned through the poor persecution of the war. the more left wing socialists or communists (miraculously sprung from prisons in german-occupied territory) would not have been able to pull victory from their ass
i've got great news about the post-war political fate of petain
You wonder what effect the German levelling of Rotterdam had on the French decision to not contest Paris.
Well yes the French government rolled over like a beaten dog but the French soldiers fought pretty hard and they took a lot of casualties. I do agree about their command being shit. I should have said "the French" not "France"
90k dead is not “a lot of casualties” for a world war.
They suffered 20 times that in ww1.
The soviets suffered 20 times that in the battle for a single city.
The French rolled over because they knew the nazis were not after them. They wanted to let the savage beast go maul Eastern Europe.
I include wounded as "casualties" but I don't really disagree with you, I just wanted to give some credit to their effort. I'll remove the word "valiant" from my previous post. I stand corrected.
France‘s leadership was compromised, because the french bourgeoise was afraid of a communist takeover, so they let the nazis win
See also how the vast majority of killing and dying was on the eastern front and the western allies swept in when the war was almost over to claim victory. At least people back then gave the Soviet Union the most credit for defeating the Nazis.
And don't forget that China was fighting a heroic resistance against Japanese imperialists, tying up so many IJA troops in counter guerilla operations that America had a much easier time island hopping.
The army committed about 75% of its forces (~11 million by war's end) to Europe and the Mediterranean, but that included a lot of non-combat personnel. The Navy and Marines, about ~4.5 million together, were the main fighting bodies in the pacific, and as any drunk Marine in a pool hall will happily tell you, they're all riflemen first and foremost. Same goes for Navy crews, they were all of them basically in combat or combat support roles.
i have no idea where you got these numbers, this is complete horseshit. 67 divisions were in europe, 27 in the pacific. -proportionally- more americans died in the pacific, but not even in absolute terms, more yanks still died in europe. the US very clearly dedicated more war materiele & personnel to Europe, there's tracts and tracts of words about the US 'Europe First' policy during the war.
Yeah, you're right, that was a misread on my part. I'll go ahead and edit it so people don't get bad info.
:stalin-approval: sorry for being aggressive, thanks for changing it.
No worries, as the Good Book says, "Show me the man on the internet and I'll show you the occasional poorly-sourced opinion."