lmao mf thinks there's going to be bootlegging and speakeasies for tobacco. In no way does it improve society to make it easy for cigarette corporations to poison the population and extract their wealth with an addictive, pointless drug.
There will be a black market for ciggs, but they don’t get you intoxicated in a way even a hundredth comparable to weed or booze, so it doesn’t seem reasonable to assume there would be a massive demand like we saw for prohibition
Then why is there a massive demand for them now? You're trying to use some sort of logic to argue against observable reality. Regardless of nicotine's intoxicating effects, millions still continue to smoke. If it was a simple "legislate it away fix" then almost no one would smoke.
Cigarettes and E-cigarettes are illegal and thus hard to access for people under 21. Since it's illegal for teens to purchase it, they won't go through the hassle of finding someone older to purchase them and no one would do them. - GarbageShoot
Wow, what a shocker. I guess you can't just think really hard and reach some measure of truth solely from that. You need to look at the material conditions and do some actual study, who would have known? It's not like this websites entire ideology is based on historical materialism and yet idealism is the sole thought process of people who use it.
"Hey do you know a plug?" - People with access to a device that allows them to communicate with thousands of people without leaving their home.
I'll be honest, I don't know how they'll be able to do it. Guess that's why no has access to marijuana in illegal states because it's just so hard to find a plug.
Believe it or not people don't wait for the legal age to start using legal substances.
There are people who smoke who aren't of age and get their ciggs from other people purchasing them. Even banning new sales, you still have a generation of smokers who are underage to feed the black market demand. Or hell, just pay someone $5 to buy you a pack at the store.
those poor kids will have to get vape juice instead of cigarettes. the horror.
Hating young people that smoke ciggs but supporting vaping is some kind of ideology I suppose. Even if its less harmful, the same reasons apply to vaping as they do to ciggs. Just to a lesser degree.
Yes, we should make cigarettes extremely hard to purchase. We should also ban advertising for ciggs and the vast majority of the chemicals they put in them. No flavours, no methnol, no colourful packaging. - WallOfBacon
Hexbear read literally anything challenge impossible. I want to prevent children from ingesting harmful chemicals regardless if the delivery mechanism is smoke or vapour.
and this law is only addressing one of them. there's no reason to say the things you've said about this. Criticize it for not having broad enough scope if you want but "this anti-smoking law doesn't address vapes" is totally irrelevant.
it's far, far easier now for that market to exist for cigarettes than it would be if they weren't sold openly and without hassle at every store you enter
Yes, we should make cigarettes extremely hard to purchase. We should also ban advertising for ciggs and the vast majority of the chemicals they put in them. No flavours, no methnol, no colourful packaging.
But we should not ban them because prohibition rarely works on something people can grow in their sheds. Something legal but hard to get will have far less of a market than an easily accessible but illegal product.
Silly me, you're right. Unlike with every other drug banned by the US govt, this time the free market definitely won't find a way to meet the demand, why I bet that the cartel bosses will all pledge to never traffic tobacco out of the goodness of their hearts. This definitely can't backfire and make it easier than ever for minors to purchase tobacco. And I completely trust the US govt to keep their word and only punish sellers, they would never promise one thing and then double cross us and use this as an excuse to conduct more warrantless searches of "suspicious individuals"
Also this legislation is in California, you can still buy cigs in Vegas or wherever.
Also for alot of other people in the thread: The addiction is to Nicotine, not Tobacco. So you outlaw tobacco consumption, but permit nicotine delivery in other methods. People still get addicted to nicotine, and (hypothetically) can't access/afford other nicotine deelivery methods in a situation, so they satisfy their perfectly legal addiction through semi- or illegal means. Not too dissimilar to what exploded the opioid crisis.
Tbf though that's a black market that exists because of the formal market, which feels quite different from a black market existing because of the lack of a formal market
lmao mf thinks there's going to be bootlegging and speakeasies for tobacco. In no way does it improve society to make it easy for cigarette corporations to poison the population and extract their wealth with an addictive, pointless drug.
I can walk 5 minutes and find a weed dealer despite it being illegal in my country.
But apparently this will never happen for ciggs?
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Then why is there a massive demand for them now? You're trying to use some sort of logic to argue against observable reality. Regardless of nicotine's intoxicating effects, millions still continue to smoke. If it was a simple "legislate it away fix" then almost no one would smoke.
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Cigarettes and E-cigarettes are illegal and thus hard to access for people under 21. Since it's illegal for teens to purchase it, they won't go through the hassle of finding someone older to purchase them and no one would do them. - GarbageShoot
Wow, what a shocker. I guess you can't just think really hard and reach some measure of truth solely from that. You need to look at the material conditions and do some actual study, who would have known? It's not like this websites entire ideology is based on historical materialism and yet idealism is the sole thought process of people who use it.
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For people underage they are. Which is what this entire conversation was about. Banning ciggs for people born after 2006.
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You're absolutely right.
Most drug dealers would travel partway so getting a plug would actually be easier than going to the store.
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"Hey do you know a plug?" - People with access to a device that allows them to communicate with thousands of people without leaving their home.
I'll be honest, I don't know how they'll be able to do it. Guess that's why no has access to marijuana in illegal states because it's just so hard to find a plug.
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this is banning new sales not trying to force every addict to quit cold turkey.
Believe it or not people don't wait for the legal age to start using legal substances.
There are people who smoke who aren't of age and get their ciggs from other people purchasing them. Even banning new sales, you still have a generation of smokers who are underage to feed the black market demand. Or hell, just pay someone $5 to buy you a pack at the store.
what a fucking terrible disaster of a black market.
those poor kids will have to get vape juice instead of cigarettes. the horror.
Hating young people that smoke ciggs but supporting vaping is some kind of ideology I suppose. Even if its less harmful, the same reasons apply to vaping as they do to ciggs. Just to a lesser degree.
ok so propose a law about vape shit you unfunny clown.
smdh going to bat for *cigarettes *
Hexbear read literally anything challenge impossible. I want to prevent children from ingesting harmful chemicals regardless if the delivery mechanism is smoke or vapour.
and this law is only addressing one of them. there's no reason to say the things you've said about this. Criticize it for not having broad enough scope if you want but "this anti-smoking law doesn't address vapes" is totally irrelevant.
Hexbear don't bring up a topic and then complain about the topic you brought up not being relevant to the conversation challenge impossible 100% fail.
it's far, far easier now for that market to exist for cigarettes than it would be if they weren't sold openly and without hassle at every store you enter
Yes, we should make cigarettes extremely hard to purchase. We should also ban advertising for ciggs and the vast majority of the chemicals they put in them. No flavours, no methnol, no colourful packaging.
But we should not ban them because prohibition rarely works on something people can grow in their sheds. Something legal but hard to get will have far less of a market than an easily accessible but illegal product.
Silly me, you're right. Unlike with every other drug banned by the US govt, this time the free market definitely won't find a way to meet the demand, why I bet that the cartel bosses will all pledge to never traffic tobacco out of the goodness of their hearts. This definitely can't backfire and make it easier than ever for minors to purchase tobacco. And I completely trust the US govt to keep their word and only punish sellers, they would never promise one thing and then double cross us and use this as an excuse to conduct more warrantless searches of "suspicious individuals"
Also this legislation is in California, you can still buy cigs in Vegas or wherever.
Also for alot of other people in the thread: The addiction is to Nicotine, not Tobacco. So you outlaw tobacco consumption, but permit nicotine delivery in other methods. People still get addicted to nicotine, and (hypothetically) can't access/afford other nicotine deelivery methods in a situation, so they satisfy their perfectly legal addiction through semi- or illegal means. Not too dissimilar to what exploded the opioid crisis.
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there already is a black market for cigs, when i smoked i used to buy them off a guy that smuggled shitloads from the continent
was way cheaper
Tbf though that's a black market that exists because of the formal market, which feels quite different from a black market existing because of the lack of a formal market