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Waltuh, put your narcocapitalism away waltuh
I'm not lighting up with you right now waltuh
the proliferation of gambling-speak and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
incredibly sick of hearing about this from my co-workers. thanks very much to the recent legalization of sports betting in ontario.....sigh
CA had an opportunity to legalize it recently and NO got 82% lol
https://calmatters.org/california-voter-guide-2022/propositions/prop-27-sports-betting-online/
Sports betting is beloved by the leagues they want that money.
I’m honestly hoping it ends up falling as the bookies are growing faster than they can reasonably maintain. I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s nowhere near as profitable as they pretend it is.
Wasn’t there hundreds of millions spent on advertising to get people to vote no (as well as regulations on dialysis centers)? I’d bet that came from people making money on betting elsewhere :obama-socialism: :i-voted:
Tabletop role playing games :grill-broke:
Fantasy football betting :grillman:
Except we already know how bans for literally all other drugs workout. It will lead to black markets and/or going to a neighboring state to buy. It seems that many younger folks already avoid actual cigarettes anyway. So it seems like it could actually cause a situation where it could make them more "mysterious" and "cool" to rebellious youths born after the cutoff. Though maybe I'm wrong and that would be fine with me.
I support this because tobacco seems like the worst drug to ever exist cost/benefit wise.
Benefit: mild stimulant, appetite suppressant, reduced cravings (if you already have a dependency)
Cost: heightened risk of like 01 different deadly or debilitating diseases, plus fucks up your teeth and breath
???
My brother smokes and I still don't get it.
To be fair to the plant, it wasn't nearly as bad as it is today until after :cracker:s got ahold of it and started industrializing its production and pushing it hard in the culture.
Apparently women didn't use to smoke too much before that one famous marketing satan came up with a campaign to sell cigarettes to women as a cool empowering thing
The only problem with this is that it doesn't go far enough. It's only a good thing. Everyone complaining about this is a certified :LIB:
back channels for illegal substances still will exist, though, not to mention it'll be less regulated, if ever fully banned :shrug-outta-hecks:
nobody in their right mind starts smoking tobacco. this is contextually better than what the kiwis are doing because california has weed
:edgeworth-shrug: fair enough. it at least deters the more curious teens to try it, i guess
and it keeps that generation from ever starting in enough numbers to sustain the industry.
Why? As far as I can see, tobacco is a purely exploitative industry. I'm all for people being able to use whatever drugs they want but tobacco gets pushed on people by convenience, peer pressure, and to cut the edge off from wage slavery (temporarily). In my mind it's an industry purely fueled by exploitation and funnels wealth from poor to rich without even a pretense of a benefit for the poor. I'm open to having my mind changed though.
Tobacco is bad, but abolition doesn't work and every prior attempt to make a drug illegal in the US has just led to further criminalization of being poor/black and helped make a few cartels insanely wealthy. I'd rather they ban all tobacco marketing and slap a big picture of black lungs on every pack.
Edit: also guillotine every tobacco exec ofc :inshallah-script:
abolition doesn't work
lmao mf thinks there's going to be bootlegging and speakeasies for tobacco. In no way does it improve society to make it easy for cigarette corporations to poison the population and extract their wealth with an addictive, pointless drug.
I can walk 5 minutes and find a weed dealer despite it being illegal in my country.
But apparently this will never happen for ciggs?
There will be a black market for ciggs, but they don’t get you intoxicated in a way even a hundredth comparable to weed or booze, so it doesn’t seem reasonable to assume there would be a massive demand like we saw for prohibition
Then why is there a massive demand for them now? You're trying to use some sort of logic to argue against observable reality. Regardless of nicotine's intoxicating effects, millions still continue to smoke. If it was a simple "legislate it away fix" then almost no one would smoke.
Cigarettes and E-cigarettes are illegal and thus hard to access for people under 21. Since it's illegal for teens to purchase it, they won't go through the hassle of finding someone older to purchase them and no one would do them. - GarbageShoot
38.9% of high school students ... reported using e-cigarettes on 20 or more of the past 30 days
Wow, what a shocker. I guess you can't just think really hard and reach some measure of truth solely from that. You need to look at the material conditions and do some actual study, who would have known? It's not like this websites entire ideology is based on historical materialism and yet idealism is the sole thought process of people who use it.
For people underage they are. Which is what this entire conversation was about. Banning ciggs for people born after 2006.
You're absolutely right.
Most drug dealers would travel partway so getting a plug would actually be easier than going to the store.
"Hey do you know a plug?" - People with access to a device that allows them to communicate with thousands of people without leaving their home.
I'll be honest, I don't know how they'll be able to do it. Guess that's why no has access to marijuana in illegal states because it's just so hard to find a plug.
this is banning new sales not trying to force every addict to quit cold turkey.
Believe it or not people don't wait for the legal age to start using legal substances.
There are people who smoke who aren't of age and get their ciggs from other people purchasing them. Even banning new sales, you still have a generation of smokers who are underage to feed the black market demand. Or hell, just pay someone $5 to buy you a pack at the store.
In 2022, nearly 2 of every 100 high school students (2.0%) reported that they had smoked cigarettes in the past 30 days.
what a fucking terrible disaster of a black market.
those poor kids will have to get vape juice instead of cigarettes. the horror.
those poor kids will have to get vape juice instead of cigarettes. the horror.
Hating young people that smoke ciggs but supporting vaping is some kind of ideology I suppose. Even if its less harmful, the same reasons apply to vaping as they do to ciggs. Just to a lesser degree.
ok so propose a law about vape shit you unfunny clown.
smdh going to bat for *cigarettes *
smdh going to bat for *cigarettes *
Yes, we should make cigarettes extremely hard to purchase. We should also ban advertising for ciggs and the vast majority of the chemicals they put in them. No flavours, no methnol, no colourful packaging. - WallOfBacon
Hexbear read literally anything challenge impossible. I want to prevent children from ingesting harmful chemicals regardless if the delivery mechanism is smoke or vapour.
and this law is only addressing one of them. there's no reason to say the things you've said about this. Criticize it for not having broad enough scope if you want but "this anti-smoking law doesn't address vapes" is totally irrelevant.
those poor kids will have to get vape juice instead of cigarettes. the horror.
ok so propose a law about vape shit you unfunny clown.
Criticize it for not having broad enough scope if you want but “this anti-smoking law doesn’t address vapes” is totally irrelevant.
Hexbear don't bring up a topic and then complain about the topic you brought up not being relevant to the conversation challenge impossible 100% fail.
it's far, far easier now for that market to exist for cigarettes than it would be if they weren't sold openly and without hassle at every store you enter
Yes, we should make cigarettes extremely hard to purchase. We should also ban advertising for ciggs and the vast majority of the chemicals they put in them. No flavours, no methnol, no colourful packaging.
But we should not ban them because prohibition rarely works on something people can grow in their sheds. Something legal but hard to get will have far less of a market than an easily accessible but illegal product.
Silly me, you're right. Unlike with every other drug banned by the US govt, this time the free market definitely won't find a way to meet the demand, why I bet that the cartel bosses will all pledge to never traffic tobacco out of the goodness of their hearts. This definitely can't backfire and make it easier than ever for minors to purchase tobacco. And I completely trust the US govt to keep their word and only punish sellers, they would never promise one thing and then double cross us and use this as an excuse to conduct more warrantless searches of "suspicious individuals"
why I bet that the cartel bosses
Also this legislation is in California, you can still buy cigs in Vegas or wherever.
Also for alot of other people in the thread: The addiction is to Nicotine, not Tobacco. So you outlaw tobacco consumption, but permit nicotine delivery in other methods. People still get addicted to nicotine, and (hypothetically) can't access/afford other nicotine deelivery methods in a situation, so they satisfy their perfectly legal addiction through semi- or illegal means. Not too dissimilar to what exploded the opioid crisis.
there already is a black market for cigs, when i smoked i used to buy them off a guy that smuggled shitloads from the continent
was way cheaperTbf though that's a black market that exists because of the formal market, which feels quite different from a black market existing because of the lack of a formal market
The article mentioned the state would be targeting stores that are selling, not the people smoking
tobacco isn't fun. being drunk is fun. being high is fun. there's no reason to go to great lengths to seek out tobacco unless you already use, and raising the age limit for sales by 1 year every year is a great way to taper off.
The tobacco companies should be punished. This is just going to create a black market, lots of straw purchases, and punish retail workers who refuse to act like some adult's mother. The policy is pure libbrain shit. It stretches the limits of doing things about a problem while completely ignoring the cause.
Look, all I'm saying is, just try it out and see what happens. We should ban gamer chairs next and see what happens with those too.
We need to teach kids they don't have to smoke, they can just pretend pretzel rods are cigars and do a gangster impression if they want to look cool.
i mean, ostensibly, it would prevent a bunch of young people from developing tobacco addictions who haven't yet developed those addictions, while allowing people who are already addicted to keep consuming it.
thank you.
this thread is full of :reddit-logo: tier illiteracy as though tapering off like this is directly reproducing the errors of prohibition and the war on drugs.
I don't know many zoomers who don't already smoke. Pods and disposables are everywhere.
This is lib bullshit.
The non half-assed punish-the-kids answer is forcibly and immediately dismantling every major tobacco company.
phases out tobacco smoking without targeting butthurt smokers' "personal liberty" to smell bad and harm others with their secondhand smoke
Look forward to revisiting this conversation in five years when thousands of black men are in jail for selling cigarettes
wait...huh? nicotine is highly addictive but it's otherwise just a stimulant not a mutagen. and vape devices main risk is heavy metal poisoning from the hot coils i don't think there's been any studies linking them to cancer yet.
Yeah I’m certainly not gonna say vaping is good for you but to act like they’re anywhere near as harmful as cigarettes is really disingenuous.
I'm pretty sure inhaling hot air into your lungs still enflames them, and doing that repeatedly still increases cancer risk.
what about inhaling hot vaporized potent anti-inflammatory compounds?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/what-does-vaping-do-to-your-lungs
Diacetyl is frequently added to flavored e-liquid to enhance the taste. Inhaling diacetyl causes inflammation and may lead to permanent scarring in the smallest branches of the airways — popcorn lung — which makes breathing difficult.
further down on the page:
Vaping-related lipoid pneumonia is the result of inhaling oily substances found in e-liquid, which sparks an inflammatory response in the lungs.
there's shit other than nicotine in an e-cig. lead and arsenic can be found in e-cig fluids and fumes. formaldehyde can form in the fumes after contact with the coils. flavorings and humectants can have weird shit in them. no one's saying e-cigs are as dangerous as cigarettes, but they're probably still dangerous, and we're not going to know how bad for a long time because e-cig popularity is a recent phenomenon.
