Those in the Imperial Core will never understand that what they consider unbearable hardship and boredom is actually a life of luxury that the vast majority of people on Earth cannot even imagine.
The international division of labor is 1000x more important and impactful than the domestic one.
I don't think I agree with either of the positions being presented here. :grillman:
He's hardly getting crushed to death in the gears of industrial capital, but I don't think the thought-terminating cliche that there are starving kids in Africa is a good enough reason to fail to recognize alienation when it's staring us in the face every day.
Yeah this is definitely capitalist alienation. There's almost no difference between this video and Nintendo's advert for Tears playing on exactly the same emotion.
This is exactly what communist should be seizing on in the imperial core. That there is more to life than.... This. That this is not fulfilling for human beings, that we need more than repetitive daily labour to lead happy lives.
What is missing in this video? The product of this man's labour. He is divorced from it. He has no pride or fulfilment from his daily routine, he is not connected with the output of his work.
As soon as you put that into the mixture it becomes impossible to see it as depressing, because the fruit of all that work becomes an accomplishment. The issue is that we're disconnected from it so it never feels like our accomplishment, it belongs to the capitalist owner, the Elon Musks of the world. Even the person designing rockets feels this way when Musk takes that accomplishment for himself.
It probably looks like the Nintendo advert because that's the vibe the video is deliberately going for, with the music, framing, etc. For instance, in the first seconds of the video you can see a ring on his finger, but you never see his partner, nor do they ever get a mention. I don't think a 60 second TikTok is an accurate representation of the guy's life.
LMAO why is this dude displayed as so incompetent, he puts a sail on a single log that's clearly starting to turn even before he gets on
In a society which has abolished all adventure, the only remaining adventure is to abolish that society
It's not a thought-terminating cliche, it's a Marxist analysis of the international division of labor lol. The only reason he gets to live this "empty" life is because of the billions of slaves experiencing actual deprivation. Read Open Veins of Latin America and try to argue with a straight face that a miner who's going to die at 35 when his lungs cease to exist lives the same kind of life as this guy, and that they warrant the same analysis.
It can be that and still be employed as a thought terminating cliche. The fact that this dude's PMC lifestyle comes at the expense of the global south doesn't make it any less hollow and alienated, and we do our analysis no favors by pretending you have no reason to be depressed if you're in the core and not starving.
OP is a guy who's said explicitly in past posts that he doesn't care about the suffering of people in the imperial core. This is not an argument worth having, he already has his :zizek: staked out.
Oh ok lol thanks for saving me the trouble
De nada
Hollow and alienated compared to what? An imagined ideal that lives in the ether? A more gentle past that only existed because of even greater economic coercion in the periphery?
Sure, workers in the Imperial Core are alienated. But revolution has only ever happened at the points of greatest deprivation. Workers in the Imperial Core would benefit from a global revolution that would bring about Communism, but that's 1000x harder sell than "continue to support the status quo and get treats." People will only ever lay their lives down where present conditions are no better than death itself.
Organizing in the Imperial Core is, in my opinion, only useful in mobilizing the very bottom of the hierarchy and to lay the groundwork for what comes when Americans start to experience real hardship, and trying to turn people whose lives are basically fine into committed Communists is a complete waste of energy.
Compared to the experience of being in any number of AES states or even just ones where the baseline is less psychotically antisocial than America. Most places don't have a mass killing every couple days, that shit doesn't come from nowhere.
We're not talking about revolution, we're talking about this guy. Revolution is beyond the scope of your post, which is about not liking the fact that people are feeling bad about this guy's boring life. You used another term, "life of luxury", that I agree with materially, but that you seem to be using as another thought terminating cliche to imply that this guy has no real problems resulting from this arrangement, and then ironically call that Marxist analysis. Human psychology being what it is, most people who have access to the internet will be people who are far more ready to empathize with the downsides of a life they already lead than the downsides of a life they can't imagine.
That's fine, spend your energy wherever you want. There are plenty of people who already agree with your assessment, you don't need to studiously ignore half of a dialectic to justify it
So the world-historical rupture with all previous modes of production or Western Europe, which has its quality of life exclusively due to colonialism and imperialism. Most of the Global South experiences a whole shitload of violence, and not just at a distance on the TV or Twitter.
Alright, then I'll engage on those terms. Why feel pity for this guy, who is among the most fortunate people alive? Answer:
Yeah this is just reinforcing what I'm saying lol. People in the Imperial Core cannot even imagine actual hardship, so a guy feeling a little mopey is what passes for that.
What's the point of even looking at this guy's "alienation?" To convince other first world workers that Capitalism isn't in their favor? To what end? If you're not talking about revolution, then anything else is pointless. If you are talking revolution, it's only ever going to come from people with nothing to lose.
If not that, then what? Self-pity from those who number among the most fortunate alive today, let alone in all of history?
What's the nature of that violence? Do they experience constant disorganized mass shootings at the hands of their friends and relatives, who's psyches are snapping one by one after years of everything being totally fine, according to you? Nothing about the fact that the incredibly hopeless and nihilistic act of suicide by rampage is an almost entirely American phenomenon spins any cogs in that incredibly rational Marxist head? Honestly, the immediate broadening of the topic to all violence feels incredibly like a hasty obfuscation.
To what end? Revolution, of course. If you’re not talking about revolution, then anything else is pointless. Nevermind that this conversation started with a complaint about a tweet, I'm sure that was a very serious and communist exception.
Why are you so invested in convincing people that their alienation isn't real? To what end? What's your call to action, "fuck off out of socialism if you're inside the Imperial Core?" Because that's just "return to brunch" with a red coat of paint.
No, the violence is largely at the hands of the state and American imperial concerns. I guess the fact that the violence they face is organized and serves a purpose instead of being the byproduct of aristocrats' empty lives makes it better?
I hate people whose lives are fine trying to make themselves out to be victims. It is genuinely disgusting to see some Imperial Core labor aristocrat whining about how their drugs are too expensive or whatever, completely ignoring the Columbian children who died to make their coke in the first place.
Moreover, I'm a Marxist, and I study the science of revolution. I want to analyze the places where the global mode of production fracture. That's not in the labor aristocracy.
Well since we're back to talking about Socialism and revolution, my message would be "spending literally any effort on people whose lives are fine instead of the actual acute points of contradiction is a complete waste of time, energy, and resources, and likely a reflection of profound myopia."
He says, many article-length comments deep on a person whose life is fine.
Then that's it, you've agreed with me that the two are not comparable and you have no leg to stand on in denying that capitalism hurts everybody. The "oh, I suppose that's better to you, huh?" you followed it up with is nothing but lazy, childish baiting.
Someone up above was nice enough to let me know you've already made explicit that you don't give a shit about huge swathes of the human population, so this is as far as the conversation goes. You can announce you're a Marxist until the oceans boil over, I'm disengaging.
Also the people talking about how "alienated" the guy is off a 60 second TikTok. Someone on twitter found his account, he has a beautiful wife, and he himself looks much more handsome and less depressed in the other videos. People got baited by some emotional music and selective camera angles and shots.
https://twitter.com/VeronikaMoreau/status/1666111443404480512
I can guarantee you this guy is not alienated. Societal alienation occurs when your entire life revolves around the production of productive labor for your boss. His life, while dominated by that, is not that, because he has the time, money and energy to make well-produced little TikTok videos. Ultimately, he is in a better spot than 98% of the world right now, and he is not alienated from society. Society caters exactly to his every need, he is the ideal consumer/producer. A self-austere man who keeps to himself. The only way he is alienated is in terms of his labor value, of which I guarantee he is have less of his actual labor value stolen.
Also, most people I know don't work a 9-5 or get to go home for lunch so he can fuck off with that 'normal job' shit. If he's so fucking bored he can run on a manufacturing line.
Yeah but we’re not actually talking about this guy in particular, we’re talking about the life the video depicts
The people in that scenario have time for hobbies, games, organizations and friends and are actively choosing not to participate in them. People working that little in this day and age, where even many Americans are running 2 jobs, have nigh on infinite possibilities of leisure activities right at their disposal. If you are not a social person, sure it's gonna be more difficult, but there is nothing actually preventing this kind of person from living a more fulfilling life outside of sheer ennui. Hell he could start a garden with all that backyard space he has.
Well, the video depicts some married dude who has a cute dog and owns his own house, something I'm sure virtually everyone here can relate to, especially the part about owning your own house at 28 years old.
:agony-deep:
Watch the documentary Balseros about how miserable Cuban refugees became after moving to the US and some of them wanted to go back.
Do they represent a majority?
Read Open Veins of Latin America and tell me that you want to go live in the Global South (without an Imperial Core income).
Looks like it's streaming on Kanopy - I've added it to my watchlist, thanks! (Comrades, odds are even that if you have a library card in the imperial core you can stream Kanopy content for free)
Neat
Imperial Core radical moment
I'm sorry I was flippant but your reply to me had nothing to do with what I said
Yes it did lol
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