"Really existing socialism" of course meaning "a system wherein workers have zero effective political power."
Just because it's true that the ML movement was an essential part of decolonialization, and because it isn't true that the USSR was some evil empire, doesn't mean that the ideologies that underpin(ned) those societies aren't deeply flawed.
The USSR was not an evil empire, no, but the political structure of a hierarchical, command-based politic lead exactly where critics said it would lead. The "ultraleft", as you call them, including Luxemburg and Anarchist communists warned Lenin exactly what would go wrong in the USSR, and Lenin did not listen.
That's why Lenin is a counter-revolutionary by deed if not by intent. By his actions, the power of the people's and worker's soviets were shattered and replaced with corrupt bureaucracy.
Also, hey, go tell a Tartar, Kalmykk or other displaced ethnic group who were victim of Stalin's genocide that he wasn't a deranged butcher. Maybe if you survive you can tell me what you learned.
https://lemmy.world/comment/171791
From this post
You can easily make an account on lemmy in a minute, use a throwaway email https://tempm.com/
Go dunk on them on Lemmy not here :possum:
lenin is a counter-revolutionary
I bring a sorta [vibes-based meaning] to [words] that [dictionaries] don’t really like
fuck these idiots. soviet workers could and did fire their bosses. when democracy is from the bottom up they refuse to recognize it as such, it has to be great man shit from the top down.
Also, hey. Go tell an Iraqi, Afghan or other uranium-poisoned ethnic group who were victims of the US Empire's genocides that it isn't an irredeemable abomination. Maybe if you survive you can tell me what you learned.
stop sharing what these losers are posting. they can all go fuck themselves. in their lib/fash world, improving the lives of millions is bad because it hurt rich people.
FYI, I started a megathread for Lemmy dunks so that those who dont wish to join in this discourse won't be bombarded with posts about it
I don't see how you can be a revolutionary anarchist and believe that it's possible to have a top-down revolution. That kind of crude vanguardist premise that the bolsheviks were the only political agents in the revolution, and that the people just sort of passively accepted it, or else were somehow immediately crushed by a minority political faction, seems to frankly give them too much credit.
These are people who never actually learned about how the soviets and worker's councils actually operated on a day-to-day basis, and their general relationship with the central and extended bureaucrats. Like, the red terror was not a good thing, but it was generally supported and sustained by the worker's councils and soviets because it gave them a chance to get rid of their political enemies in the bureaucracy. Much of the reason for Stalin's general popularity with the people and immediate rejection by the bureaucrats is because Stalin directly held bureaucrats responsible for their policy failures, but was generally more ideologically and policy lenient with the worker's councils and soviets. If you wanted to be on a national stage, then Stalin gave you alot of attention, if you were concerned with local production, he would generally give you a pass.
However, this also explains the utter stagnancy of the upper echelons of Soviet government, and the 'smart move' of gathering power at those local production levels that eventually led to the dissolution of the USSR. Politics are a tough game to play, especially when you are dead.
I believe the term you are looking for regarding top-down revolution is "blanquist", a term which I've seen used multiple times in these threads to describe "tankies" and bolsheviks alike
Also, hey, go tell a Tartar, Kalmykk or other displaced ethnic group who were victim of Stalin’s genocide that he wasn’t a deranged butcher. Maybe if you survive you can tell me what you learned.
Why do people think this is a compelling point? If you talk to a white supremacist about black rights or any chud about trans rights, or any reactionary about anything good, there is a non-zero chance of a reactionary getting violent with you, therefore you should abandon those positions, apparently.
What stupid reasoning. I increasingly figure that will never respect the "western left".
Yeah I don't understand this either. Any political position you have will be unpopular with someone, to the point of violence maybe. I don't know what modern Tartars or Kalmyks think about the Soviet union, but most people in former Soviet states seem to have a positive opinion, but usually for weird nostalgic reasons rather than policy By this person's reasoning, there shouldn't be any socialist movements in post-soviet countries, even though there are. Ukraine had to ban all their leftist parties and so did others like Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan.
I could easily tell this person to go talk to a Cuban who was alive in 1959 and tell them Castro wasn't a hero.
Maybe if you survive you can tell me what you learned
They said I was right and you were wrong
So wrong in fact that they're not inviting you to the big Tartar sleepover party at Jeff's house
Someone comment with the video of that old Russian grandpa saying Stalin was a great man and that if the interviewers grandfather was killed it was because he deserved it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF0JdAim6Pc
"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good." -- Joseph Robinette Stalin
Sorry, but I've seen people like this out in the wild and they aren't the type to be kicking anybody's asses. Rather, they'll just scream hysterically and hope that it does something. The type who acts tough when a guy is shouting them down and then wets themselves when that same person pulls a knife out. You see this a lot in tough neighborhoods and it's almost always gentrifying transplants that get put in their place very quickly.
I've never heard the word "Tatar" spoken, so I always say it in my head like "tater". :kitty-cri-potato:
