Only in our fucked up, youth obsessed, capitalist hell society where if you can’t contribute “value” you are a nuisance to be cast aside into a nursing home and left to die in obscurity
There were other times and there are other places where we respected and revered our elders as sources for wisdom and guidance. Of course our “elders” now are boomers so that’s in short supply.
It would be nice. I don’t like clogging my toilet. I also don’t want to sleep and prefer using those 5-8 hours doing activities I enjoy like learning music and reading, while still having full energy.
What the fuck are you talking about humans are supposed to get old and die
They're also "supposed to" CW (SA, Violence, suffering):
spoiler
murder, rape, steal, and do all sorts stuff (that our closest relatives chimpanzees do, at least according to the latest research) and get owned by things like heart disease, cancer, etc (which btw Marx and Engels made fun of Malthus for).
Lots of things are "natural" but some we choose to embrace and others we choose to change. For example, a chud would oppose CW: (transphobia):
spoiler
transition surgery because it's "not natural" and "humans are supposed to be man and woman and there's no natural gender surgery"
::
I disagree completely with this deeply pessimistic view of humanity. None of the things you listed are innate to human nature or the human experience. People are born intersex, people are born trans.
Wanting to “change” getting old and dying implies there is something wrong with getting old and dying. My contention (which I’m about tapped out defending) is that the desire to change something that is good, that is natural, reflects an unhealthy relationship with death that permeates our culture. It is a part of life. We are supposed to die. There is nothing wrong with it. There IS something wrong with pretending it doesn’t exist, by shutting people away in nursing homes, or forcing them to die in hospitals instead of at home surrounded by loved ones.
This the most extreme expression of the type of selfishness and egoism plaguing capitalist society and manifesting in things like ecocide. We are only a small part of the whole. We are not supposed to live forever. We are supposed to be stewards and guides for future generations.
Yes they totally are, but in order to not "mess with nature" then would we just not allow them to get affirming medical procedures? I think that's the issue here, i.e. at what point do we intervene in the otherwise "natural order."
So, wanting to get rid of bodily pain is unnatural and therefore bad? Because there’s no other interpretation when your reply is “that’s the natural order of things” when someone complains about knee pain.
No… not what I mean at all. Knee pain is a condition, which can and should be addressed with medical intervention. Aging is not. What I am trying (and apparently failing) to say is that using your kid as a blood bag in order to stave off the inevitable is extreme, narcissistic and, and yes, unnatural. It betrays a fear of aging and death that is borne from existing in a society which has a profoundly unhealthy relationship with aging and mortality. He could ship of Theseus it if he wanted to, replacing every part of his body with that of a younger person, but it would make no difference… he is still going to get old and die. There is an immaturity in refusing to acknowledge that eventuality, which societally we are also guilty of though to a lesser extent by locking our elderly away in nursing homes, and refusing to acknowledge death as a natural outcome of life, and an unavoidable part of being human.
We might cure aging within this century. We’ll probably cure it faster if enough people agree we should, instead of accepting aging as beautiful and inevitable.
a society which has a profoundly unhealthy relationship with aging and mortality
That's hotly debated actually: https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/10/19/1061070/is-old-age-a-disease/
Only in our fucked up, youth obsessed, capitalist hell society where if you can’t contribute “value” you are a nuisance to be cast aside into a nursing home and left to die in obscurity
There were other times and there are other places where we respected and revered our elders as sources for wisdom and guidance. Of course our “elders” now are boomers so that’s in short supply.
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Sure it would be nice if I didn’t have to shit too but this is the natural order of things
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Maybe one day we will figure out shitting too
Are you trying to have a serious conversation or are you just resorting to toilet humor?
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It would be nice. I don’t like clogging my toilet. I also don’t want to sleep and prefer using those 5-8 hours doing activities I enjoy like learning music and reading, while still having full energy.
Very
take
What the fuck are you talking about humans are supposed to get old and die
They're also "supposed to" CW (SA, Violence, suffering):
spoiler
murder, rape, steal, and do all sorts stuff (that our closest relatives chimpanzees do, at least according to the latest research) and get owned by things like heart disease, cancer, etc (which btw Marx and Engels made fun of Malthus for).
Lots of things are "natural" but some we choose to embrace and others we choose to change. For example, a chud would oppose CW: (transphobia):
spoiler
transition surgery because it's "not natural" and "humans are supposed to be man and woman and there's no natural gender surgery" ::
I disagree completely with this deeply pessimistic view of humanity. None of the things you listed are innate to human nature or the human experience. People are born intersex, people are born trans.
Wanting to “change” getting old and dying implies there is something wrong with getting old and dying. My contention (which I’m about tapped out defending) is that the desire to change something that is good, that is natural, reflects an unhealthy relationship with death that permeates our culture. It is a part of life. We are supposed to die. There is nothing wrong with it. There IS something wrong with pretending it doesn’t exist, by shutting people away in nursing homes, or forcing them to die in hospitals instead of at home surrounded by loved ones.
This the most extreme expression of the type of selfishness and egoism plaguing capitalist society and manifesting in things like ecocide. We are only a small part of the whole. We are not supposed to live forever. We are supposed to be stewards and guides for future generations.
Yes they totally are, but in order to not "mess with nature" then would we just not allow them to get affirming medical procedures? I think that's the issue here, i.e. at what point do we intervene in the otherwise "natural order."
I think the difference is in the implication that there is something wrong with aging bodies that makes stories like this one eugenics-adjacent
A trans person receiving affirming care is not making such an assumption— gender affirming care does not imply inferiority of one gender vs another
Yeah sure, according to you. Yet aging is the one thing that is "natural." How convenient that it all fits how you want it to be....
Yeah the mental gymnastics are strong with that one...
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So, wanting to get rid of bodily pain is unnatural and therefore bad? Because there’s no other interpretation when your reply is “that’s the natural order of things” when someone complains about knee pain.
No… not what I mean at all. Knee pain is a condition, which can and should be addressed with medical intervention. Aging is not. What I am trying (and apparently failing) to say is that using your kid as a blood bag in order to stave off the inevitable is extreme, narcissistic and, and yes, unnatural. It betrays a fear of aging and death that is borne from existing in a society which has a profoundly unhealthy relationship with aging and mortality. He could ship of Theseus it if he wanted to, replacing every part of his body with that of a younger person, but it would make no difference… he is still going to get old and die. There is an immaturity in refusing to acknowledge that eventuality, which societally we are also guilty of though to a lesser extent by locking our elderly away in nursing homes, and refusing to acknowledge death as a natural outcome of life, and an unavoidable part of being human.
We might cure aging within this century. We’ll probably cure it faster if enough people agree we should, instead of accepting aging as beautiful and inevitable.
I do agree with this
You keep saying this, but as I have pointed out, this is hotly debated amongst scientists. So just because you believe it to be so doesn't make it so.
Sounds like some doctors I know who unironically say shit like this.