I'm in a bit of a crossroads in my life right now. I've been in junior college for a while now, with the intention of transferring to a university and eventually getting a masters in history. It's my intention to become a professor at the junior college level, but I have my doubts. I know what the job market in academia is like, though it isn't quite as bleak where I live. My grandfather is also offering me an opportunity to work for him and learn from him. He's incredibly skilled in a very esoteric trade, and he pays pretty well. My uncle and brother already work for him, and they seem to enjoy it. Thing is, it's a big commitment. 80-100 hour weeks at times, sometimes out working in extreme heat, and it would keep me away from home and away from my girlfriend. All of that I can live with, but I know it would nag at me, the thought that I could've done what I'm really passionate about (i.e. teach history), which it must be said is probably an easier life than trade work.
What on earth should I do? I'm at the point in my life that I should be making some real money, though I'm not hurting for it right this moment. If I can't get the degrees without a mountain of debt, I likely just won't do it, but even if I can manage that, I'd like to know that it won't be impossible to find a job that doesn't involve treading water as an adjunct.
Edit: Wow, I did not expect this many responses. Thank you all so much for your kind words and insight. If nothing else, you've all reassured me that I'll probably be alright either way. I've at least got a fair few options to choose from, and I know many would gladly trade places with me. I'll do my best not to waste it.
History teacher here.
I don't feel like I need to convince you to be a teacher, it seems to be something that you want for yourself. But the way I see it the big problem is the 80-100 hour week quote. Is this for the rest of your life? Is this due to commute? Is this something that happens some weeks of the year, but not for the most of it? Would it pay so well that you could semi-retire by age 40? Does it incur health issues since you're working in the heat? Because 80-100 hours is a lot and would take over your life, leaving no room for anything else.
I ask these questions because they are the difference between massacring yourself or building a good material basis for your future. There are people who go through college and start new professions at the age of 40, 50, even 60. And you don't have to teach at a junior college to live through your passion for history. You can look up lectures online, as well as the errata of courses to see what they are actually reading. You can just talk history with people around you, and they'll listen because people by and large like history. Hell I've taught my endochrinologist about the kingdom of ndongo just because.
The real draw of teaching is the social experience of being in a school and interacting with the alumni. Well, if you work 80-100 hours a week you might lose out on social experience. Period. So that's the real counterpoint you gotta think through.
All in all, I would encourage you to go for a good, boring job that gives you a good material basis for all the things you want to achieve. And would only recommend teaching if that's literally all you want to do.
Incidentally, I'm glad to see a history teacher on here! It's nice to talk about this with somebody who isn't a computer programmer lol
While I can't give a good answer over at :reddit-logo: there are a couple of threads about learning some things about history and how historians tackle problems.
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Faskhistorians+books+beginner+knowing+
It is what I'd most like to do, yes, but ultimately I'm not adamant about it. I know teaching isn't the only prospect for a history major. I suppose one problem I have is that I'm not quite well versed or simply imaginative enough to envision alternatives easily. But I am open to them at least.
But anyhow, to answer your questions, I doubt I would be doing the actual work the rest of my life. It's a family business, which my uncle seems fit to inherit, and if we expanded a bit, we could probably hire contractors to replace us and just do admin and oversight and whatnot. And that's if I stuck with them that long, which I'm not sure I would.
There is a fair bit of commuting involved, but usually not more than three hours or so from home, and it isn't a daily commute either. They usually stay out for days at a time on jobs. The 80-100 figure is often active working time. That said, that's by no means a constant, and there are times they go weeks between contracts. It's all very irregular. That's just the ceiling I was told to expect.
My brother, who mind you is new and still inexperienced, makes $25/hr doing this, which given the hours they work usually adds up to a more than decent paycheck. Good, but not retired-by-40 good. Though I must say, their work isn't usually very physically demanding. Occasionally their contracts require that they do labor, digging ditches and shit like that, but mainly its technical work. Far as I know, the heat doesn't cause them any problems beyond discomfort.
The part I can't get over is how little time I'd have away from work. So I'm constantly being torn between having a guaranteed source of income which comes quite dearly, or continuing on with school for the chance that I'd get a more bearable career which pays at least as well, but that comes with the possibility of it not panning out at all.
I've been tying myself in knots over it.
The 80-100 figure is often active working time. That said, that's by no means a constant, and there are times they go weeks between contracts. It's all very irregular. That's just the ceiling I was told to expect.
That's fairer. A ceiling rather than non stop crutch forever. Considering the possibility of debt, of the business expanding and you ending up in an administrative position of some kind, of the involving heat but not being so destructive towards your body, and the possibility of having weeks at a time to dedicate to yourself, to your needs, and to your passions. I'd recommend talking to your brother if you haven't yet, getting more familiarized with the job, and asking yourself: can you enjoy your passion for history, can you read books and talk to people, and join book clubs and so on as a hobby, as something that enriches you as a person, as a part of your life, even if it is not your profession?
You already like working with your hands. Why not get a good stable income professionally, while having history as your essence, as your leisure?
I'm not american either so there's the debt thing to consider. What if you end up joining your grandad's business anyway to pay down that debt?
Now mind you, that's just speculation on my part. I'm still on the outside looking in, and I have no idea what my grandpa's long term plans are, or what the situation will be when he passes. The only sure thing is that right now he can put me to work and give me a decent enough wage.
You and I are more or less on the same wavelength here. I was looking into trades even before the old man made me this offer. And I'd considered working for him to pay off any debt I might incur as well.
I should lay all of my cards on the table here though. Teaching isn't the only thing I can imagine making me really happy. One particular fantasy of mine would be to do field work for the National Park Service. I worked with a few of their field biologists last year, planting Joshua trees in the Mojave desert after a large stand of them was wiped out by a wildfire. I fell in love with the idea of doing projects like that for a living right then and there, but I have no idea whatever how to get into a career like that. Working for the government as a historian or researcher also appeals to me though, not least because those are by far the most stable jobs a guy can get around here.
I worked with a few of their field biologists last year, planting Joshua trees in the Mojave desert after a large stand of them was wiped out by a wildfire. I fell in love with the idea of doing projects like that for a living right then and there, but I have no idea whatever how to get into a career like that
cam'on ask the joshua trees guys. they won't mind.
Look, you're young and your head is full of ideas. What you need is, well, not a Plan per se, but some long term information. Your grandad's proposal is a pre-packaged debt free plan already. If you want to go the park ranger route, you gotta ask around and see if there's qualifications you can achieve - college or otherwise - that opens more opportunities down the line first. If you want to go the teacher route, you shouldn't just gun straight for academia, you gotta consider your possibilities as a school teacher as well, because that might be the opportunity that will turn up for your life. And with your grandad's business, well, you gotta see how far you came make into it, what courses you could do to help out, and what sort of work/life balance you can achieve.
I love teaching kids. It's great. At least whenever there's job openings to that effect. But with history in particular it's not uncommon for people to dropout and become white collar workers of one kind or the other. Just understand that the time you've spent already at school gives you a horizon of things that academic history students do to acquire the knowledge and the skills needed to write history. And you don't have to be a historian to engage with it.
You're right of course, and really, little of what you're telling me is anything I didn't already feel deep down. I'm looking for certainty, but there's no such thing. What I do have is opportunities, and sooner or later I'll just need to pick one and ride the wave.
You're right, there's no certainty. You'll have to pick a future, and ride with it. And it will be ok to regret it, even if a little bit. As long as you don't lose sight of yourself. There will be things in your life, experiences, that you'd rather not lose even if you could 'reset' and try another path. Those will keep you earthed and capable of carrying the weight of your choices, of your regrets and achievements both.
But seriously that's probably easier to do at 25+USD an hour.
Ha, tell me about it. And that's just for starters. The more work we get and the more I learn, the better it would get. And if not, I'd certainly learn skills I could take elsewhere.
I got a degree in history, taught it to high schoolers for about a decade, burned out, and switched to a job at the paperwork factory in support of people who work the trades. I spent 3-4 hours on the clock today reading Wikipedia and Vonnegut; still taking in tons of history for my own enjoyment. I liked the time I spent teaching, I'm glad I did it, but I'm also glad I stopped. This work-life balance is much better, by comparison.
Doesn't sound half bad. And that's something I've always kept in mind, that I'll still love history no matter what I do.
As someone who followed a similar education path to what you describe, I wouldn't go that route. But if you are more talented, wealthier, better connected, or more driven than I am, you'll have better odds
Edit: grammar
Not gonna dox myself, but pursued grad degree in the humanities/social sciences with the intent of working as prof or in a museum (or similar). It didn't work out and Ive been in a below average spot financially for years.
Edit: if you want to teach history, I'd get a teaching certificate and teach high school.
Naturally. I've heard hundreds of stories like yours, and that's why I'm so uncertain about my own path. To make matters more confusing, my own professors, staff and adjunct alike, have done nothing but encourage me. I can't help but be a little pessimistic about that. I mean after all, they made it, of course they'd say that. But they don't seem wholly ignorant of the struggles these days, and they still think I should go for it in spite of them. I'm getting two totally different signals, which only adds to the uncertainty.
It's not like it ruined my life. I enjoyed grad school, and fortunately I had a full scholarship (nearly all my debt is undergraduate). But I'd still advise my past self differently with regards to education and career path.
You've probably heard this: you definitely shouldn't accept admission to a humanities graduate program unless they are paying your tuition (or your work is paying it). This is easier than it sounds.
Noted, would that go for a masters as well or just for doctorate? I've already been warned more times than I can count to avoid humanities PhDs like the plague.
I would say only go if the school will cover your tuition for your Master's.
There's probably times to ignore this advice, but in most cases you don't want to take on more debt to spend two years on advanced degree with an uncertain career path.
If you have the financial need (ie you aren't rich) and you get into a program, there's a very good chance you'll be able to get free tuition at the school in exchange working as a graduate assistant or something similar
You read my mind there. I wouldn't have even made this thread if tuition weren't an issue, or if the odds of getting a good job were higher.
Either way, I'll take all this to heart, because I'm damn sure not rich.
There's a lot of things about working a trade that I like. Failed out of college multiple times. It's funny when I was mowing lawns or working in a kitchen they said I had hustle; in school they said I had ADD. There's a brutal reality to working a trade though, you're breaking your body for money. I've seen some really nasty injuries. My father in law fell off a roof and was damn lucky to live with all the bones he broke. Way he put it to me was "I don't care if they make money, I don't care what they study, I want my kids to never know what the inside of a construction site shitter smells like"
IMO if you can get by working with your brain do it
Consider doing community college into a 4 year university if are looking at college. It's cheaper and completely valid.
learning skills is cool. learning a trade is cool. i think it can be as enriching/edifying as formal education. i dropped out of school at 20 and worked a couple of different trades for 10 years before going back to get a BS and then an MS in adjacent fields. i also managed to get the MS completely paid for by an employer.
the skills i picked up in that decade have been invaluable and the practical experience gave me critical insight into abstract concepts and were instrumental in developing the communication skills to deploy that knowledge in elegant ways.
i would slam dunk say go for the trade for a while, accepting that going to school later in life is totally underrated, however...
80-100 hour weeks
that sounds toxic as fuck. i used to do 60-70 hour weeks when i was full of idealism and youthful energy, and it was not good.
The odds of becoming a history teacher and able to afford food is low.
What aspects of teaching history appeals and is it possible to get that feeling in a different way?
Like most of my passions, I struggle to explain it rationally. It's like gravity really, just another fact about my reality. I enjoy history and know that I would enjoy teaching it, simple as that. I suppose there's tutoring, but you can't exactly pay the bills on that either. I'm not above teaching high school either, but it certainly isn't my first choice.
I like working with my hands well enough too, so that wouldn't be unbearable. I just worry about getting stuck in it. I'm young and strong now, but so were my grandad and my uncle. That kind of work takes its toll.
It would feel like a waste, spending all this time on school to not even get a degree, but that's probably the sunk cost fallacy talking. I'm given to understand that a fair number of history majors never go into teaching at all, but instead wind up working for libraries or museums. I love the outdoors as well, and wouldn't mind working as a historical interpreter or something for a national park or whatnot.
You got a good outlook, just remember that it’s okay to try and fail especially if you got people who can pick you back up.
You could always work at your Grandpa's for a couple years and make industry connections to move to a less physically demanding job that still requires knowledge of that trade - like the kind of company that would hire your Grandpa, if there is such a thing.
Don't forget that monetizing the things you love can turn them into a job - there could be other ways to express your passion, too, like participating in reenactments or volunteering for a museum.
And don't forget - you're still young. There's time to change your mind, no matter what you choose.
I'm a little late to this one, but I just want to remind you that there is no rush to figure any of this out. You have your life ahead of you and you don't need the rest of your life perfectly mapped out.
Personally I would recommend finishing the 4 year degree to see if you still hold that passion for history afterwards, and in this day and age college eductaion can help you get a lot further than otherwise. After that, don't jump straight to the masters program. Take a break from academia, try the working world, help you uncle, build up some savings. From there you might have a better idea of what you actually want to do.
I got my degrees without any debt. I don't regret doing so, I had great experiences and learned a lot, but I work a menial public sector job now because it pays so much more than anything I could hope to do with an MA in humanities. My experience is unusual, as far as money goes, I would recommend against doing what I did if you would be in debt.
I don't think prospects are likely to improve in the next decade, probably not in my lifetime. I know you may feel like you're missing out on doing something meaningful (I sometimes do now) but realistically, at least in my case, I can't actually do the thing I was taught to do. I would be surprised if you actually could, but you know your conditions better than me.
Your mileage may vary, upside to monotonous work where you're not public facing is I get 8 hours a day to listen to books and podcasts. I'm also in a union, get weekends to spend with my family and am paid better than anything else I've done. Those things make my situation a lot more tolerable.
What exactly is it that you do, if I might ask? I'm trying to get a better idea of what else one can do with this degree besides teach.
Factory work, basically. I do manual labor in a machine, logistics for a federal entity. Absolutely no use of my degrees.
There should be more "good" history teachers, but I can imagine that the pay and hours and work environment are going to be low grade terrible.
That 80~100 hours a week working for family seems pretty rough. Unless its something like "Your work week is 80~100 hours, but only doing 40 hours of actual work with the rest of the time just sitting around waiting for something or being on call" which isn't great but might be more tolerable for a year or two.
I'm pretty sure it's more the latter, but I'd still be away from home a bunch. Not that I have a bumpin social life or anything, but I do still have friends and hobbies, and I hate being apart from my girlfriend for too long.
I'm alright at math, but it definitely isn't where my talents lie. I certainly don't feel that I'm good enough at it to pursue a STEM or CS degree or anything like that
I'm kinda in a similar situation, but different. I'm like 4 classes from finishing my history degree, I love it, and would really like to be a teacher. But I dropped out around covid and I dont want to spend the money to go back. Unemployed rn and I wish I had a job that made me enough money to afford a house and tuition, so thats my current goal.
Maybe you need to do something similar, just leave for now and finish once you've made some money or have developed a skill you can fall back on. Some professors I knew had really interesting paths before they taught
That's a possibility I've kept in mind. School feels very urgent, but it isn't really, I know. I'm only 28, and I don't have kids. There's hardly a ticking clock here.
