If this is too close to sectarianism I get it, but I keep hearing about Marxist-Leninist-Maoists at the periphery of other discussions and all I know about them is:
- they seem to be distinct from other Maoist tendencies
- their name is often shortened to Maoist in conversation
- the tendency is at least nominally a synthesis of Mao's writings into prior ML theory, done by someone named Gonzalo
- their reputation among MLs seems to be deviant
- I think the rapper Power Struggle alludes to being one, which is my sole investment in this question
I'll try to answer following the non-sectarian rules.
MLs uphold Mao as a theoretician of marxism-leninism, but don't see him as doing anything different from MLism, which we hold to be the most adaptable ideology of communism and so we don't see a point in considering that Mao wrote
Mao himself wrote for the conditions of China at the time and didn't call himself anything other than a marxist-leninist. Some of the stuff he wrote and theorised some people have told me had been practiced by Lenin before him, just without a name (like the mass line). I'm not sure about that personally but it's what some people say.
Where it gets complicated is you have ML-MZT (Marxist-Leninist with Mao Zedong Thought, not repudiating that Mao was an ML but incorporating what's applicable from him into MLism), Maoism, MLMism, and still some MLMpM -- Marxist-Leninist-Maoists (principally Maoists).
Though nowadays from what I understand you pretty much only have MZT and MLM left, and they just call themselves Maoists.
I also heard in China some people call themselves Maoists and it has a different meaning than in the rest of the world, but I don't know about that personally.
Gonzalo was the leader of the Shining Path, or Communist Party of Peru - Shining Path (there were two parties). He was the one who first synthesized Maoism in the 80s, and I think also started MLMpM. He alleged -- or at least Maoists allege -- that Mao's contributions to marxism were sufficient to consider MLMism the most advanced ideology of the proletariat, and thus all MLs should become MLMs, like all Marxists previously became Marxist-Leninists. Personally, in the time Maoism has existed, I have never seen the universality of the protracted people's war. It has only succeeded in China so far, and was practiced by Mao due to the conditions in China at the time: a large population fighting against an outside invader in a mismatched war (Japan being much more trained and equipped than the Chinese).
Now, I hope this still assumes good faith and doesn't break the non-sectarian rule, but it's no secret (although still a bit niche) that Maoism was also being promoted by the CIA both in the US and outside, because they wanted it to exacerbate the Sino-Soviet split in a divide and conquer move. In Peru, where Gonzalo was from and operated, the CIA even distributed the little red book in universities. Gonzalo himself was quite a character and you know, there's been controversy with the Shining Path regarding civilian populations, but at the same time there's also lies against communist figures so I won't get into these incidents here.
I'm not saying Maoists are feds mind you, but it could help explain why there are so many Maoist ideologies and subgroups and why many actually disagree with each other. The PPW that I talked about is apparently not upheld and practiced by all Maoists. You also recognize Maoists because sometimes, they like to speak in very poetic prose, I think coming from Mao's own writings (he was a poet before he became a writer).
Maoists also don't uphold the AES line, which is held by all MLs and was first theorised by someone from the USSR whose name I forgot, I think shortly after Stalin's death. To that end Maoists don't believe China is socialist, which is the biggest demarcation in the west between MLs and MLMs. Though to be honest, I realise when writing these lines I actually have no idea why they don't like China and what that has to do with Mao's writings. I think it might come from the Three Worlds theory he wrote on which... was completely wrong. Like there's Mao the general, and there's Mao the statesman. And the two are very different lol, Mao kinda became cringe towards the end of his life. That's also why we sometimes call them ultras (since you were asking), because no revolution is ever good enough for them if it isn't waged exactly how they want it to.
The one thing we all kinda agree on is the USSR became revisionist after Stalin lol
Adding onto this, MLMs see Mao's contributions as a crucial modification of Marx's and Lenin's theories. The biggest change is doing away with the idea that modes of production have to proceed linearly and that peasants need to be torn from their land and made into industrial workers to be able to abolish capitalism; the theory allows for jumping straight to socialism from feudalism.
In addition to M-L-MZT (mostly the Chinese model, Marx and Lenin with lots of footnotes by mostly Chinese Communists) and M-L-M (more standardized with Mao as a key elaborator on Lenin the way Lenin was for Marx), you also have Maoist-Third-Worldists, who believe that revolution only has a good chance of happening in the Third World/Global South/periphery due to the highest level of "contradictions" (better understood as Oppositions) there, and that the core, including the workers, is bought off with the fruits of imperialism, and is irredeemable until a global wave of revolution makes its way there from poorer countries.
Maoists have several core ideological or strategic principles like Mass Line, New Democracy, and Protracted People's War.
Since the end of the Cold War, Maoists have achieved a mixed victory in Nepal, and stood their ground in India and the Philippines, which is more Ws than any other tendency can claim in the same time period, except maybe for Socialism in the 21st Century.
more Ws than any other tendency can claim in the same time period, except maybe for Socialism in the 21st Century
What does Socialism in the 21st Century refer to here?
Not OP but I understand that term to refer to the ideology of what are sometimes called the Bolivarian revolutions, in Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua
To expand on the end, Maoists don't like China because they see the Dengist turn as a revisionist betrayal of Mao's vision and strategy. Maoists also will usually defend the cultural revolution and the great leap forward, but not anything more recent like tiananmen, where they tend to start looking like what might be called ultras
Thank you very much for the rundown, context is exactly what I was looking for. I don't have much to say about it, I was just curious where a rapper I like was coming from with lines like "Marx, Lenin, Mao got books to go around" and "combatting wrong ideas and revisionists", since those seemed like they could fit any ML tendency, but strongly suggested MLM
I have never seen the universality of the protracted people's war. It has only succeeded in China so far
What about Vietnam?
From the Maoist perspective, Marxism-Leninism-Maoism is an extension of Marxism-Leninism, that emerged via the study and application of the writings of Mao during the Chinese Revolution and what would be considered the "Maoist" period of China. These were put into practice by a collection of anti-revisionist revolutionary communist parties in the global south, such as Philippines, Turkey, and Peru. This is where Gonzalo comes in, because as leader of the Peruvian Communist Party he was the first to synthesize the term Marxism-Leninism-Maoism after the studying the successes of the Peruvian and other revolutionary movements (for pedants, note I said movements and not revolutions). This is what is meant when people say "Gonzalo founded MLM", basically the same way Stalin "founded" Marxism-Leninism.
There's also a messy history of the term because it has been used by proto-Maoists (like the Black Panther Party), Third Worldists (evolved out of proto-maoism), and MLs claiming ML-MZT as some sort of universal ideological development, not to mention the deviationist MLMs that call themselves MLMpM-GT.
MLM parties today are active in the global south, notably Philippines, India, Turkey, Nepal, Brazil, etc but there are adherents in the global north (usually where the stereotypes come from) that so far have seen little success.
Please unshorten MLMpM-GT. I’m guessing GT is Gonzalo thought but I’m lost on pM
Marxism-Leninism-Maoism-principally Maoism-Gonzalo Thought
Historically MLMpM was used by the PCP to emphasize that Maoism is an advancement on MLs, but I'm not sure why Western Maoists are so keen on using it in the modern context when MLM has been decently established. Makes it into a word salad too.
Two of the largest existing MLM people's wars are taking place in India and the Philippines. These insurgencies have been going on for several decades.
MLM insurgents also fought a decade long people's war in Nepal. They succeeded in ending feudalism in Nepal but didn't outright win the war. Rather, they eventually entered into parliamentary government following the peace accords. From what I understand, the Nepalese Maoists are generally considered revisionists by other MLMs.
Sorta depends on the party. A big chunk of Nepalese Maoists broke off the parliamentary party after Prachanda went all loony and announced his own version of Maoism.
Still waiting to meet a western Marxist who upholds Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Prachanda Path as their personal tendency.
My mind automatically switches all 3 terms up until it has reached the most absurd possible meaning of a sentence containing the MLM acronym. It keeps doing that on its own, i can't really help it.
using MLM interchangeably depending on what makes the funniest sentence
assuming MLM stands for all 3 terms at the same timeMulti loving Maoist
Multi Leninist Men
Multi Loving Marketing
Multi Leninist Marketing
Multi level Maoist
Multi level Men
Marxist Loving Men (pretty cool)
Marxist level men
Marxist Leninist Men (probably the best)
Marxist loving Marketing
Marxist Level Marketing
Marxist Leninist marketing
Men Loving Maoist
Men level men
Men Leninist Men
Men loving Marketing (worst one)
Men Level Marketing
Men Leninist marketing
All I know is the Gonzalo stuff, and that one of them in the deprogram discord once defended Pol Pot, and that they are often as annoying as ultras.
There is a strain of Gonzalo/pol pot enthusiasts online who seem like the cartoon idea of a communist, defending every atrocity and misstep in the name of communism. I’m sure there is propaganda about both those events and leaders, but they are on the same level as patsocs to me
There is a strain of Stalin/mao enthusiasts online who seem like the cartoon idea of a communist, defending every atrocity and misstep in the name of communism. I’m sure there is propaganda about both those events and leaders, but they are on the same level as patsocs to me
I wouldn't use the atrocity angle, the west loves playing this up. Atrocities definitely happened, but they always do in revolution
Ok but Cambodia’s killing fields. Are the PAVN counter revolutionaries who bought into a Western narrative, or was Pol Pot a western-assisted contra psyop?. I find it difficult to treat the democratic people’s republic of Kampuchea the same way as collectivization under Stalin or Mao, like the camps were the only way of constructing socialism in Cambodia.
If you prefer, I can condemn them as revisionists of Marxism
I'd recommend the book Critique of Maoist Reason https://foreignlanguages.press/new-roads/critique-of-maoist-reason-j-moufawad-paul/ (link has free pdf) for a short description and history of Maoism and it's different tendencies, including MLM.
Maoism = Gonzalo thought = "boiling babies is 👌 with me"
Marxism-Leninism-Maoism = Marxism-Leninism applied to the Chinese conditions.
All MLs are MLM under the right conditions. Maoists (gonzalo) are not MLs. MLs follow mao-zedong-thought (MZT) whereas the Gonzaloites discarded MZT when they decided to pursue something that had no support among the masses.
