Leftists who don’t like Biden don’t want to see him in office again, so they don’t want to vote for him, or they want to withhold their vote until he changes course. Seems simple enough.
But that’s not how politics works.
So announcing that you'll vote for him no matter what he does will make him change course? Is that how politics works?
Never, in the history of this country, has there been a president who hasn’t engaged in what the left would regard as unforgivable crimes. This is the nature of presidents, and politicians in general. If you, like me, are on the far left, you should never fully trust or have faith in any elected official.
But when I look at the Biden administration, I see a group of people who can be bullied in a leftist direction on some policy priorities.
Can anyone today truly argue that the world wasn’t drastically changed by Gore’s loss in 2000? Even if you don’t accept the argument that Nader’s candidacy is what lost Gore the election, how can you argue that the world wouldn’t have been at least a little better if all of those Nader votes had gone to Gore and put the Dems over the top?
Democrats have held the presidency 50% of the time since 2000.
Ah yes just what I need. A corporate media entity telling me how I NEED to think. Thank you slate very cool
Perhaps in response to your concerns the headline has now changed to "The Leftist Case for Voting—Yes, Even for Biden"
I find it fascinating how every 4 years major media makes the exact same Leftist case for voting, and it is literally never "Look at all of the wonderful progressive things the Dems have done!" and instead is always "well MAYBE you MIGHT get SOMETHING done with the Dems but you'll DEFINITELY get NOTHING done with the GOP!"
Interesting that they are completely incapable of making any other case.
It's also not compromising when one side has to keep making sacrifices for decades and the other side not only won't concede anything but will shiv you if you try to do something for yourself.
We are not making sacrifices. The people being killed by dem policies are making sacrifices. This shit is 2 serial killers trying to pull a good cop bad cop on us.
When Biden was elected someone here made a post I cannot find with a timeline about how the Democrats would respond to critiques - something like "2021: It's too early to criticize him, let's give him a chance"; "2022: We have to win the midterms before we can criticize Biden"; "2023: The election's coming up, now is not the time"; etc.
It's been the same since 2000 and they've never changed the script.
the sub header is a trip:
We need to think about this election differently. Just ask Trotsky.
So the article is doing a Vote Blue No Matter Who Blue MAGA move, but also says you should vote for (and bully) your preferred enemy.
The point of electoral politics, as it is lived, is not to vote for a friend; it’s to vote for your preferred enemy. You will never find a morally pure candidate, or one whose positions perfectly align with your own preferences. So you must find one whom you can effectively bully.
That's what real leftists are doing right now! Trying to bully the Dems/Biden is what has been happening, and this dorks just tell us we are helping Trump.
Deeply Unserious.
it’s to vote for your preferred enemy
Iirc liberals were cool with burning police stations when Trump was in office and were actively opposed to putting children in cages at the border. That disappeared the moment Biden went into the office. Sounds like Trump might be the preferred enemy then
Libs when seeing red liberalism:
That's fascism like in the USSR, China, North Korea, Cuba and other AES! I will fight against it as my duty as a patriot!
Libs when seeing blue liberalism:
This is fine
and we have saved democracy!
You will never find a morally pure candidate, or one whose positions perfectly align with your own preferences.
I HATE when liberal pull that shit, this smug fucking way of pretending that we only have small unimportant disagreements with Biden, dismissing in the most disgustingly intellectually dishonest way I've ever fucking seen the fact that our "single disagreement" with Biden is his conscious and unconditional complicity in a fucking genocide.
I hate it not only because it's an absolutely monstrous rhetoric carrying water for a monster's monstrosity but also because it's SO obvious to anyone without terminal blue MAGA brainworms why they are doing that: they know deep down that there is no way they can pretend to be the good guy if they try to face the truth, which means they know what they are defending, for who and what they are carrying water. They know yet they still do it.
Sartre quote: find and replace "anti-Semites" with "Blue MAGA"
https://hexbear.net/post/2966510
I love when these people bring up the Weimar Republic as a reason to vote for their guy. They always leave out that their guy is the stand in for Hindenburg.
classic example of people voting for the "lesser evil" and then the "lesser evil" invited the wolves into his government
"this is why you need to vote for the lesser evil"In any other country, Trump would’ve been thrown in prison and every person who stepped foot inside the capitol would’ve been hanged. In America, Trump gets to play golf for three years while being protected by security paid by taxpayers, and after being convicted he still gets to run as president and the opposition legitimizes his campaign by treating him as a genuine political opponent instead of the rogue fascist threat they claim he is
I dunno, a state using even the tiniest amount of power against the bourgeoisie sounds pretty aUtHoRiTaRiAn
You wouldn't want to end up like Boliva, with all the coup plotters in prison and the only person still willing to try an ineffectual loser!
straight up. Biden is Hindenburg, the verrrry left wing of the dems/squishy DSA types are at best kinda like the SPD, but they have no organization and little power. And Hindenburg was elected mostly by right wingers who hoped he would restore monarchy, plus the nazis themselves before they grew big enough to contend themselves. He presided over the rise of the nazis, repressed the KPD, got re-elected with the support of scared liberals, and then right at the end handed hitler the chancellorship, and within a month the KPD was outlawed and they were rounding up communists. More communists voting for Hindenburg doesn't solve this problem. And that's not addressing the earlier history of the SPD crushing left wing uprisings.
If you wanted to be really generous I guess you could claim Biden is Wilhelm Marx. A right wing establishment guy who's credited with Getting Things Done and holding the country together, but also gives the office of Chancellor executive emergency powers, setting precedent for Hitler to take even more. Maybe a splintered germany wouldn't have gone fascist. Maybe nationalism is fucking poison.
And in france, we will see how it goes, but that alliance is... an ALLIANCE, with concessions, not a capitulation.
Didn’t Gore lose because the Republicans literally stole ballot boxes in Florida or some shit?
Gore lost because he refused to fight even though he won the election.
Clinton lost because the Democrats refused to abolish the electoral college in the intervening years.
Biden will lose (among many other reasons) because he's refusing to "defend democracy" or whatever he said his must-pass (didn't-pass) voting reform bill was supposed to be.
They only care about lecturing people who won't vote for them, but they won't do anything for those votes and they won't do anything with those votes.
The most frustrating thing to me is that it’s not like they can’t do anything. When it comes to, say, orchestrating the primaries candidates to prevent Bernie from winning, they are incredibly efficient and ruthless. They just refuse to do anything about the slide into fascism
Yup that wad another example of the Republicans successfully employing the "what the fuck are you gonna do about it" method of politics.
It's all very complicated and not just the exact same as high-school drama bullshit.
I saw someone on a defedetated from hexbear instance state 'biden is a good man'... Not only is genocide forgivable, but you can still be a good person while doing it
Genocide is just a job.
Watch ‘Zone of Interest’ you’ll see the Nazis running the Holocaust factory are just normal people who love their children and spouse.
It’s FINE! He feels sad about it.
It's amazing how refusing to endorse Genocide Joe is breaking so many liberal brains.
If you, like me, are on the far left, you should never fully trust or have faith in any elected official.
If you have read ANY theory on electoralism, you will understand why this entire essay is a pile of stupidity. Lenin's thoughts on electoralism (from my understanding) were that it should be earnestly engaged in to show people the futility of it as a vehicle for meaningful change in a capitalist society.
This is some idiot that thinks voting for Bernie in a primary makes them a raging communist.
If you, like me, are on the far left
[babby's first electoralism]
jesus fucking christ
I wonder how much of an impact conservatives calling them commies for decades has had on their perception of where they actually are lol
These days when I meet someone and they say they're a 'leftist' without specifying anything else, I just immediately assume they're a very confused liberal.
To be fair, in America, voting for Biden makes you a socialist. And when you get too much Biden? Well, that's Bernie obviously- communism.
But in seriousness, as far as electoralism goes, I absolutely agree with that sentiment that socialists, etc. should engage with the system and do so to the fullest amount reasonable. Support liberals you disagree with who promise positive changes- the worst case outcome is they don't do the changes, they make things worse, then you get to say "Hey, I've been saying all along X wasn't gonna do anything. You see? They just made it worse!" In theory it will build "trust" if leaders on the left back candidates but always remain critical of them in a fair way, on the candidate's own terms.
Now the last sentence I wrote is important for my own mental health especially during the most magical time of every four years... right now. Presidential election season.
If you're far left, socialist, whatever, you are de facto left of every single candidate and elected official. You're further left than probably a solid 95% of the US population. Maybe even, who knows, maybe you're the top 1% full blown "I would literally give material aid to China and spy for Xi right now!" Although I don't suggest admitting that part... anywhere at any time. And more importantly you have an ideological backbone for your analysis and statements. Most liberals, most USAians, have absolutely no ideology. It's effectively team sports- nothing unique in that observation. "Trump is mean, so I vote not mean guy." "My wages are dogshit, I can't buy a house, and the TV told me Mexicans are doing this! I'm voting Trump." That's like... almost every voter. You can see all the interviews online (not the propaganda edited ones, I mean just normal focus groups and stuff) or simply chat for 5 minutes with anyone who cares enough to vote and it'll quickly be "Mexicans! Rapists! Crime! My wages!" or "Trump is an asshole and a fascist." Maybe you get people slightly more engaged who have more detailed critical views, but it's always gonna circle the cesspool of liberalism.
I wrote that unnecessarily long paragraph because I can't help myself, for one, once that addy hits, it's done. You fuckers are getting books. But also because I see people constantly having incredibly outside of reality expectations for politicians, and specific ones often get targeted. Partly because they ask for it; they did choose to be politicians and live public lives. Partly because maybe people think they're doing "accountability" (you aren't) by telling AOC she's a shill for not doing something she probably never really said she'd do anyway. I know people like AOC put off this aura, purposely, of "I will always be on the good side!" And my main issue is: why are you, hypothetical leftist person engaging in electoralism while also knowing the realities of how power operates, believing the hype? I think people really really need to be told like repeatedly, perhaps with the aid of physical blunt objects, AOC is not going to save you. She's hardly even your ally. She's in a group of the most left leaning elected US officials, she's closest to your ideology (in theory), but she disagrees with you on so many fundamental things and we can start with the basic one of she isn't an anti-capitalist. She's not going to become a leader of the proletarian and overthrow the evil US empire in a bloody coup. It won't happen! Even if it is entertaining to imagine. Her job is to show that even the best candidates, the best politicians, will never change things. They can't! And they also, most likely (I can't read minds), don't want to! Not in the ways you/we would like. She is confined by capitalism. She cannot leave that box. Maybe she really believes in capitalism, maybe she's chosen this strategy because it's necessary in order to be elected, it doesn't matter because she never promised anyone to argue against capitalism. Hey, that's your job! That is where the left is supposed to offer the fair criticism on the politician's terms. "Hey, you passed that IRA bill. You said it helps end climate change, but that seems like bullshit. Please explain." You support them, let them tie their own noose, let them hang themselves and then say "hey, that didn't work. Maybe it can never work within the confines politicians and the broader media apparatus are telling us is unquestionable? Maybe we have to question it?"
I don't know if my point is clear in that rambling, but basically you can't engage in electoralism, a system you know is doomed to never fix real problems, then get incredibly mad at the elected officials for basically doing what they said they'd do (or part of it). I mean, you can, but that's misdirecting the criticism from the system of capitalism, which is the problem, to the individual politicians and their individual reforms within capitalism, which can never solve the problem because they are just part of the problem. It's a subtle thing, and maybe it's especially bad in the US because we're all individually-minded slugs.
I think I get annoyed by people acting like she's really really gonna change things, or even that she can, on one hand and on the other hand you got the most black-pilled motherfuckers on earth, for many valid reasons!, just going on endlessly about how evil she is. Yeah dawg, she's a goddamn US elected official. You should already know that from the start. It's quite literally impossible for her to not be a force for evil ultimately to whatever degree. She works within the power system of the US empire. Like come on. She's doing her job though by proving the left correct that reforms aren't enough and actual full change cannot emerge from within the system. Instead of yelling at her all the time (and yeah she deserves it sometimes, but people lose sight of the goals) instead just use her as the proof that she is. Praise her when she does the right thing, but remain fair otherwise and don't hyperfocus on the human, the individual, but rather the fact that who she is doesn't matter. Because it doesn't. Just like criticism of capitalism shouldn't be based on the perceived (and of course real) evils of capitalists themselves, but rather the system that they benefit from and perpetuate, you have to take a systemic view of elected officials too. The irony is most liberals will critique Marx (incorrectly) by saying "oh, he just thinks capitalists are mean people who do mean things because they enjoy it to get rich." No, his criticism is that the system of capitalism is neutral on morals. The individual motivations of capitalists are irrelevant. Some may care about workers more, some might care about responsibility to their communities and nations, but it doesn't matter because the funnel of capitalism will crush them all in the end and force even the capitalists (kinda ironic) into submitting to the worst excesses of the system in order to maintain their class position. So you must take this view of politicians who oversee the government of the empire.
Always boils down to "I don't see Palestinians as human beings, now stop whining"
. . . Biden, who has been tepid (at best) on core left priorities like restraining state violence, defending abortion, enshrining trans rights, and—perhaps most importantly—stopping the carnage in Palestine.
No, no, you see, he hasn't been doing the genocide, he's tepidly not stopping the carnage.
Doesn't matter how emotionally charged the language they do use to describe the genocide is, if someone never calls it a genocide I feel like they quietly support it.
It feels intentional.
If you're downplaying it, you're protecting the perpetrators.
Leon Trotsky himself urged the German Communists to reconsider their foolish pride in 1931. “Should fascism come to power, it will ride over your skulls and spines like a terrific tank,” he declared, accurately. “Your salvation lies in merciless struggle. And only a fighting unity with the Social Democratic workers can bring victory. Make haste, worker-Communists, you have very little time left!”
Ah yes, because Nazis came into power because of communists, and not because social democrats sided with Nazis against communists
The more I read from Trotsky, especially from his post Civil-War period, the more I realize how much leniency he was given by the Bolsheviks.
Leftists have the curse of being Cassandra and helplessly and accurately predicting the future and being unable to change it
Same with basically everyone and every time, except yezhovshchina and Khrushchev purges. The famous and often cited purged people like Kamenev and Zinovev were given 20 years and multiple opportunities to improve and they had episodes like literally betraying the revolution shortly before it started which might as well led to its failure if Kerenski was a little faster and more decisive. Trotski himself rode the edge for like quarter of century.
I keep seeing this revisionism on Lemmy too. It's like, there was a coalition to defeat the Nazis, it was between the liberals and the social democrats, and then they appointed Hitler Chancellor.
Never, in the history of this country, has there been a president who hasn’t engaged in what the left would regard as unforgivable crimes.
so you agree that the dissolution of the US would make the US cease to do unforgivable crimes?"Obviously every president in US history is probably unforgivable, but here's why you should forgive Biden."
stopping the carnage in Palestine
The only thing I'm going to be stopping, is reading the rest of this article.
Weasel words, can't even say Genocide can they?
Strongly agree, if you call it a genocide once, I don't care what synonym for "very very bad violence" you use later, but if you can't explicitly call it a genocide, you just look like you're running cover for the IDF and Biden.
Especially in the context of telling people they need to overlook it and vote for the genocidaire-in-chief.
As a leftist, I wholeheartedly believe in revolutionary defeatism. I’m not trying to build the best empire, I am hoping to end imperialism.
If you are okay with imperialism than you are not my ally.
i think this is something liberals genuinely have trouble with. they are so bought in to the idea that the u.s. is necessary that they can't conceptualize of a position that sincerely advocates for its dissolution (or at least not one that isn't coming from the mouth of a frothing stereotype they feel comfortable ignoring)
electoralists love to say stuff like : "we will push Biden left after the election and then don't push Biden left after the election"
We can push him left after the election <--- You are here
No you can't push him left now, it's too soon
No you can't push him left now, we need to worry about midterms
No you can't push him left now, that will make him look weak
No you can't push him left now, we're too close to an election and it will scare off voters
Repeat until everyone is dead
"Just one more dem presidency" is the same as "just one more lane." Doesn't come close to solving the core issues.
Never, in the history of this country, has there been a president who hasn’t engaged in what the left would regard as unforgivable crimes. This is the nature of presidents, and politicians in general
This is the nature of presidents, and politicians in general
I see a group of people who can be bullied in a leftist direction on some policy priorities.
So is it in the nature of politicians to be unforgivable forces of evil or are they able to be nudged in a direction
These are contradictory ideas
how do you do, fellow leftists
Don't blame me, I voted for Himmler
