I realize that it's 2020 and no one gives a shit about SA anymore. This isn't meant to be a shocking expose or a call to action. It's just something I've needed to find the words for and a place I felt like I could share it, and now I finally think I have both.

I was active on SA around 5-10 years ago. It was the first place where I really learned about social justice, feminism, antiracism, and the like. It was the place that made me sympathetic to trans issues. It took a hardline stance against most common forms of bigotry and economic conservatism, and it was a crucial step in my journey to the left.

It was also, in a lot of ways, pretty shitty. "Autism" was a pretty frequent insult, the accepted wisdom on asexual people was "They're hideous unlovable incels in denial," and a common refrain was "If you were bullied as a kid, you deserved it for not putting in the effort to be normal." The one everyone knows about, of course, is their notion that furries are pedophiles who sexually abuse animals (and this is ingrained into the site's culture to the point that furries are banned on sight).

While all of those sentiments are sadly quite common on the internet (and were even moreso during the time I frequented the site), hearing left-wing stuff in the same space as that cruel and ignorant behavior - often from the very same people - caused me to conflate the latter with the former. After all, these people seemed to hate asexuals/autists/furries/"cringey people" just as much as they hated racists, sexists, and transphobes, and they would often defend their behavior by explaining why it was okay to harass and abuse "cringey" people because they weren't actual marginalized groups.

Given that I'm someone who hasn't spent a lot of time seeking out sex, likes furry stuff, suspects I may be autistic (a lot of the signs are there, but I never got a formal diagnosis), and embarrassed himself and got bullied a lot in middle school and high school this left me with a pretty fucked up view of myself. If these good people - these people who clearly cared about justice for the marginalized - thought I was some kind of disgusting monster, who was I to disagree? If they had as much vitriol for people like me as they did for outspoken bigots, surely that must have been because I was as bad as the bigots? And what about the handful of times one or another of my high school bullies actually sexually assaulted me? It was made clear to me on SA that sexual assault is always wrong, but it was also made clear to me on SA that I deserved that for "not trying hard enough to be normal." I wrestled with this in my mind, but rather than coming to the conclusion that "these people are assholes sometimes," I unfortunately decided that the "you deserve bullying" took precedence over "sexual assault is always wrong."

I ended up carrying around a lot of subconscious guilt. It became impossible to relax around other people. I felt like an infiltrator, a disgusting monster intruding into a place where I didn't belong. It became difficult to form any real connection to people (even moreso than usual for me). I didn't feel like I had a right to any decent treatment by them, and I didn't see the point - I became absolutely convinced that everybody I knew would become disgusted by me and toss me aside if they caught the slightest hint of who I really was.

Worse is that I assimilated the idea, to some degree, that taking up these positions was part and parcel of being a good leftist. If I stood up for autistic people, I also stood up for vile tech libertarians. If I stood up for bullying victims, I also stood up for incels 4chan Nazis. If I stood up for furries, I also stood up for pedophiles. I'm ashamed to admit it, but this actually led me to attack such people on several occasions - in my distorted thinking, this had twisted into striking some kind of blow against bigots and right-wing scum.

It was only very recently that I came to realize how toxic and wrongheaded this thinking was. Being exposed to healthier leftist spaces helped, as did talking candidly with therapists about who I was and why it bothered me, along with seeing dipshit internet Nazis and alt-right channers parroting many of the anti-furry/autism/"cringe" lines that people on SA did. The day I rejected their thinking - truly rejected it, not just intellectually but emotionally as well - it was like the first ray of sunlight after an impact winter. I don't feel shame over the things they think I should be ashamed about anymore. The only shame I feel is that I let them hoodwink me into hating myself for so long.

  • bewts [he/him,comrade/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    “If you were bullied as a kid, you deserved it for not putting in the effort to be normal.”

    I've gotten this vibe from certain things the Chapos have said in the past as well as them haranguing the subreddit for being "too cringey". I think this attitude is somewhat pervasive in leftist spaces at least among "cool kid" leftists... For instance the Antifa shooter guy had the outward appearance of being poor and perhaps not very well educated and I think some people looked at him and went "well he looks bad so I can't be associated with him".

    • ChapoBapo [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      Yes I feel this. I was bullied and I was a weird kid (and I'm probably still pretty weird and cringe), and there's 100% a contingent of people who responded to being ostracized by going full reactionary, maybe in the same way people respond to childhood abuse by becoming abusers themselves, but for me it made empathize with people and want to take care of people who had gotten fucked by the world.

      • bewts [he/him,comrade/them]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I 100% know that feeling. I've always felt out of place and was always much more comfortable among other "weird people". Glad to have you as a comrade my man.

        • ChapoBapo [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          It's interesting because I've definitely sort of initially responded negatively to discussion of "bullying" by chapos and chapo-adjacent outlets as a positive force, but if I think about it for a second I think the actual message is that there should be social repercussions for chud opinions. That culture should reject people who want to create a white ethnostate or whatever. Which, yeah. True. But if the message is this person is cringe and also a chud, they should have been bullied more for being cringe rather than for their chudness, not only is that kinda cruel but I think it's actually counterproductive.

          • bewts [he/him,comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            I 100% get behind them when they say you should bully chuds and elizabeth warren but we need to be able to turn it off when it comes to our comrades.

  • Lil_Revolitionary [she/her,they/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    I was on /r/tumblrinaction around 6 years ago so I know how much it sucks to be in a toxic community. It aint your fault, and I'm glad you're doing better!

  • 777 [none/use name]
    ·
    4 years ago

    i think if you look back enough you can probably trace all of the biggest impacts on internet culture with real-life consequences in the 2000s/2010s they can all be traced back on a long enough timeline to SA, which is a really weird thing to think about.

    QAnon (at least in its current form) doesn't happen without 8ch which doesn't happen without 4chan which doesn't happen without 15-yr old moot getting mad at SA mods in 2003 and creating the original site by putting 2chan's source code through a Japanese-to-English translator. So many big originators of "weird twitter" like Jon Hendren and @dril were just FYAD users. One of the guys killed in Benghazi, inexplicably, was a goon.

    in 2020 i don't really know what the site is about anymore or who it's for, but I think a big (negative) influence on the internet was the adoption of that too-cool-to-care culture of calling anything or everything cringe, which isn't necessarily endemic 2 just SA but certainly something I feel like slowly built up and came to an ugly head there and on the more "transgressive" spots on the internet.

    • throwawaylemmy [none/use name]
      ·
      4 years ago

      One of the guys killed in Benghazi, inexplicably, was a goon.

      ...And playing EVE Online with Goonswarm when it was happening. He basically said "oh shit, things are going down here" and had to logout to go to his death.

      • GrouchyGrouse [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I wasn't playing when that happened, but I did play EVE with the Goons back in 2006-08ish. Lotta slurs. Looking back, I'm glad I burned out on the game and fell off the community when I did.

        • throwawaylemmy [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Their corp has basically fallen just like SA's popularity has waned. SA was big in 1998-2001 or so, but ever since it's been dwindling to where only old-timers stick with it. I'm not surprised that the EVE Corp went off either after most of the older folks started to get kids/etc. lives instead of being able to troll on EVE.

      • StalinistApologist [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I joined the reddit corp the week it started. we got hotdropped by the goons in lowsec and vilerat was like "can i uh, speak to your leader?" and then reddit and goons were on good terms for awhile and it was awesome. rip

    • 777 [none/use name]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      I feel like slowly built up and came to an ugly head there and on the more “transgressive” spots on the internet.

      & just as a conspiracy-themed sidebar here...

      if you want to ever have a total "oh that makes sense in retrospect" moment: Encyclopedia Dramatica was founded by a National Nuclear Security Administration agent.

    • the_river_cass [she/her]
      ·
      4 years ago

      One of the guys killed in Benghazi, inexplicably, was a goon.

      I forgot about this, lmao.

      this is what "progressive" politics without any actual grounding in theory gets you.

    • snackage [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      biggest impacts on internet culture

      *American internet culture

      • 777 [none/use name]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I should clarify that I'm posting from within my little tiny American bubble here, but yeah.

        • snackage [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          It's just that I notice Americans on the 'net (well outside the net to) forget that there are other people on it and are rarely corrected and we should steer against that. Only saying that because there's probably like also a French internet culture that has nothing to do with SA.

  • cumwaffle [she/her]
    ·
    4 years ago

    early internet forums were fucking godawful, NewGrounds was so toxic

    • the_river_cass [she/her]
      ·
      4 years ago

      it's always going to be hard because people are really good at making social justice arguments in order to protect themselves or attack others. but generally, if you keep careful attention on who's punching down and who's punching up, you can generally keep a pretty clear eye on who needs the solidarity in any given argument. and toxic shit like claiming abuse to protect power needs an immediate ban.

  • gayhobbes [he/him]
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    ·
    4 years ago

    Y'all making me feel super old for being on SA back in 2003, and even then I was considered new because all the cool kids were pre 9/11.

  • Vayeate [they/them]
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    4 years ago

    Holy shit did I get a different experience on SA than you. My oldest account there was probably 2003. I think I was in middle school at the time. I used it consistently for probably 13+ years and finally quit it because the braindead politics became too much for me and I've always hated the moderation staff there.

    In my opinion, SA was never aligned with social justice, antiracism, or virtually any progressive stance whatsoever. Phrases like "fggot" and "trnny" and tons of other slurs short of the N word were pretty fucking common. Making fun of people for basic sexual niches was the norm. Ridiculing anyone who displayed any sort of sensitivity was the norm. It was an legitimate hive of total bullshit and idiots and I absolutely loathe that it shaped me so much as a teenager. SA is a bastion of neoliberalism and being an asshole.

    Fuck SA. Fuck the moderators. Fuck lowtax. Fuck 95% of posters there.

  • Staines [he/him, they/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Facepunch a 2007 to 2019 community that was Something Awful Lite for Gmod/HL2 users was very much the same way. It amused me a lot that despite Facepunch circa 2007 to 2013-2014 being super anti-furry, eventually the very same anti-furry megathreads that were verging on a decade old eventually converted the haters to being actual full fledged furries.

    The weird, nonsensical point that I'm making being -- if you were an internet forum user from 2005 to 2015, congratulations, you were brought up in a very strange time that has affected you in more ways you can think. That decade of internet culture has leaked in very very real ways into the real world even if it has now been destroyed and subdued to the next generations replacements of tiktok and so on.

    Our little niche generation had it's brains pickled and we continued fucking reality and the planet more than we could ever guess.

    • MaxStirner [none/use name, any]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Yep, was a Facepunch user since 2005 till 2014. It definitely feels like I had grown up with the internet in a weird unique way, for better or worse. I remember around 2006 it had a "Smartness rating" where you would be banned for making too many spelling or grammar mistakes, on top of that some of the most ban happy mods around, the whole forum felt like a huge landmine to post in. The sensationalist headlines subforum was pretty insightful for it's time, progressive lib takes were uncommon back then.

      Overall, Facepunch certainly had it's ups and downs, but I think overall I'm glad I spent my teen years there instead of SA or 4Chan.

  • LangdonAlger [any]
    ·
    4 years ago

    any other olds remember gen[M]ay? what a shithole that i spent my formative teenage years being poisoned by

    • htz [she/her]
      ·
      4 years ago

      spent a fair amount of time there myself but it somehow never really gave me too much brainrot.

      i will never forget the post about the dude fucking a crab though. burned into my brain permanently.

      • LangdonAlger [any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        mr2, the forum's owner, groomed teen boys in exchange for popularity & favors on the forum. ask me how i know.

        • htz [she/her]
          ·
          4 years ago

          oof. i kept pretty clear of actual interpersonal interactions and never really spoke to anyone from there one on one. was essentially just a 'haha funny threads' site for me. but, i'm really sorry to hear about that. the internet is a fucked up place sometimes.

      • LangdonAlger [any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        do you remember when co-admin sanjay had to go on a low-carb diet and "invented" flattening a piece of bread into a shitty tortilla? the whole forum freaked out about how genius he was and how delicious flattened bread is. bunch of idiots. or isajeep? or kidane? or OneWhoKnows? or Vendetta, the superbuff mod guy who got a staph infection and lost like all the muscle in one thigh? yeah, i'm glad i have so many memories stored of that shit