Can anyone actually make a convincing argument why alcohol is good actually? I'm not straight edge, I'll have a drink or two once or twice a week. But it seems obvious to me that the world would be a better place without alcohol.
Alcohol is a substance, an inanimate one at that. Alcohol is neither "good" nor "bad". The positives or negatives lie in why people use it, how often/how much they use, laws/culture surrounding it, etc. It's bad as an escape mechanism, it's unhealthy as a coping mechanism, and damaging when used as a legal defense, but still the alcohol itself is neither good nor bad. Therefore the world wouldn't automatically be better if I snapped my fingers and abolished alcohol, just like how alcohol wouldn't automatically be good if we handled people's desire to escape or the social pressures behind alcohol or the addictive mentality it could cause.
And I say all this as a recovering alcoholic who now gets drunk maybe once a year, tops. It's not the alcohol that fucked up my life. It's all the stuff surrounding the desire to drink
I agree, alcohol isn't a root issue. And yeah things aren't innately good or bad. Banning it is a bad idea but clearly working out way towards a world without it is a good idea
I definitely think a major culture overhaul on how it's viewed (specifically towards drinking in excess), increasing acceptance around recovery programs, and alleviating the material conditions that make people turn to alcohol in the first place would help a lot and would all be good steps. Alcohol can be cool and good in the right settings and I feel that can be preserved while also addressing the darker underbelly of it. I feel the same way about all substances tbh
Yeah judging off my comments it would seem like that but I actually don't. Most of my family don't drink and the ones who do never more than 1 or 2
Addictive personalities will find anything they can to get their dopamine fix. That's a mental health issue not an alcohol issue. This would make more sense if you were talking about drugs designed to get people addicted and fund pharmaceutical companies.
I want a world without those drugs also yes. And yes alcohol isn't often a root issue, it's underlying mental health or societal issues. But still the best possible world we could have doesn't have alcohol in it
But still
You haven't really made the case on banning it other than you personally don't like it.
That's because I don't want to ban it. The argument I'm making is that in the best possible world we could have, alcohol isn't part of it
How about let people decide for themselves how to treat their bodies.
But it seems obvious to me that the world would be a better place without alcohol.
I think there would be more fighting if everyone had to be sober all the time, actually.
I'm not saying we should ban it, just that working out way to a world without it is a good idea. Also drunk people fight more than anyone else so idk where that last sentence is coming from
just that working out way to a world without it is a good idea
What the hell does this mean if not a ban?
Building a world is isn't alienating, build a world with support systems, build a world were we don't need to drink to have fun. Seriously if we had something like this so few people would drink because why. Even moderate consumption is bad for you and is it even that fun? There are many things that are waaaayyy more fun
Nope just not going to have advertising and product placement convince every child in america that it's cool and fun
People drink alcohol and they have for thousands of years. It is a social practice and not something to moralise into good or bad as other's have said. I think there are levels to this though, but they are all grounded in some context and with some goal in mind. If you want to live a fulfilling and healthy life, you will likely want to avoid alcohol or drink in moderation since binge drinking often gets in the way of this. If you want to run an effective revolutionary organisation, you will probably want to promote moderation in your members since running an effective org requires discipline, dependability, presence of mind, etc. Then there is the macro level of public health, where having a drinking culture can cause billions of dollars in lost production and medical costs, so given the circumstance you may want to restrict alcohol by raising the price, banning it, etc. depending on how dire the need is.
I agree with everything here. I'm not trying to moralise it. I'm just making the point that in the best possible world and society we could create there isn't alcohol. Working out way towards that world is a good idea
in the best possible world and society we could create there isn’t alcohol
I think here lies the difference between our views. I would push back on that and say that in a better society, people wouldn't want alcohol the way they do now, but alcohol would still exist and be an option. Maybe people wouldn't drink at all, maybe they would drink occasionally, it's hard to know what would happen in the best possible case in a communist society. I leave it up to the future people living under communism to decide whether alcohol has a place in society or not.
True maybe my certainty is a bit too strong. Still, in a just society; without overwork, without alienation, with support system, mental healthcare for all, with a high quality of life for all, without advertising and culture constantly push alcohol as the way to have fun and be cool. Why would anyone drink alcohol?? I just don't think anyone would.
Yeah, I feel alcohol would have an extremely limited role if it is used at all in such a society, but yeah certainty is probably a bit strong and I think it made a lot of people here think you were coming at it from a "temperance socialist" angle.
