Chinese person here and yup, it mostly comes from consuming American media as far as I can tell but older Chinese people usually do not have positive opinions of black people. I've had a hard time convincing elderly Chinese Maoists who lived through WW2 and are as anti-imperialist as any western leftist that black people aren't lazy(and are the fucking backbone of our horrific economy).
Does the party have an official position on anti-black racism? Does it figure in the propaganda?
Like USSR was all in on decrying US racism. By the time I was eight I had to learn like three poems about oppression of black workers by capitalist America...
Yeah they do, in the recent instance of African tenants getting evicted in Guangzhou during COVID, it was the result of local government laws on housing and testing, but also racism, to some extent. Once the central govt became aware if the issue and promised to resolve it, they did so, and it no longer became a story.
China's got a way to go in terms of the people's perception of race (partly because of Western attitudes and partly because, due to economic circumstances, many of its people are still not as exposed to foreigners as you or I have), but the Central govt is not inflaming racial hatred, rather, I think they have a more mild anti-racist view on the matter. They're reporting a lot on the BLM protests too if I remember correctly, and it's mostly positive coverage supporting the protests I think
Guangzhou has a very visible African minority population, probably the largest of any mainland city. China like the rest of Asia is super colorist, and there's a lot of inter-ethnic developing world one-upmanship that goes on. So yes, many Han Chinese people are uncriticly racist--but not to the same systemic level in any way towards black people as what we see in the US. Anecdotally, black people often have wildly different experiences travelling in China, and often have the feeling of being treated more as a foreigner than as a black person, if you get what I mean.
Yeah, there's definitely some culturally conservative views in China about black people and homosexuality. It's not nearly as terrible as America (I don't think you'll get shot or lynched or anything) it's just more of a pervasive non-understanding. I think that's something that can be fixed though. China's pretty good at doing the propagandizing and if the party decided to adopt a platform that's more accepting of homosexuality, I feel like most people would fall in line pretty quickly. It's weird that that hasn't happened though. One legit criticism of China that you don't actually hear a lot about in American news.
Your phrasing is problematic. It's "Chinese person" not "Chinese" and there's no "average Chinese person" for the billion people who live there. Just say there's a lot of racist Chinese people.
Nobody is trying to dehumanize Americans and Americans don't mind being called Americans. People are trying to dehumanize Chinese people and 'a chinese', 'the blacks', 'the gays' etc have a historic use as an othering slur.
Wtf am I enabling here? Just don't profile Chinese people with "average" stereotyping and don't use othering language. I'm condemning your racism you goof.
The bit where they bring up the Yellow Turban Rebellion is by far the worst part too. Imagine if I brought up some ancient Roman war crime in the same way.
It's not hard to make a small edit to your comment and move on. Grow up. I condemned the Chinese Government a bunch of times today without using racist language. It's not hard.
The "two things can be bad at once" argument is also applied to racist language. I'm a queer anarchist. The fact that you've double downed so hard on such a minor problematic mis-phrasing makes you look like a racist.
It means either you don't speak English natively and you think saying 'a Chinese' is fine because of whatever 1960s textbook you were taught out of and we need to tell you that's wrong, or you're a native English speaker and you're a fucking idiot. You tell us.
Afaik a lot of this is happening again in context to covid. Same as this: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimination-against-africans .. the problem is, its hard to find a good source regarding the ssa region and i cant remember where i read about it.
The situation in africa is also complicated regarding racism on the side of chinese workers, especially in the corona crisis, as black workers are seen as dirty and disease spreading and are treated accordingly. (There actually is a source for that, but i'll have to search for it again, as i didnt write it down)
Edit: looks like the situation for all black people in china is like that: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimination-against-africans
do those diplomats take money from the US state department? have you looked at their connections to the US military industrial complex? the NGO complex?, etc etc
These diplomats also take money from chinese sources in a lot of cases, as china is way more economically active in the region, they wouldnt risk this economic support over mere american propaganda.
But you dont really know do you? you just did a google search and found the first thing that confirmed your bias.
Doing a 5 minut google and taking the first link you find isn't serious research on a subject like china which is heavily propagandised in the west. The sheer scope of western propaganda apparatus eludes many people and its easy to get conned..
Edit: also just want to point out, im not saying theres no racism in China, most cultures have some element of racism in them, and even for nations that have begun socialist projects
(or claim to depending on how you view china) it can take decades to erode the barrieres between people. My problem was purely your sourcing which revealed a lack of understanding about the foe you are up against (western hegemony and its virtue signaling)
I didnt link the first thing confirming my bias, i was searching for the source i remembered for my claim regarding treatment of ssa citizens in the ssa region by chineses workers. And i thought i could link hrw on a well documented topic. You not giving me sources you'd accept doesnt help at all btw. Just tell me that you dont want your bubble burst, im trying to have a honest dicussion, no need for the aggression dude..
Edit: thats why im asking which sources you'd accept on this, so i can base it on these, i know thst there is a lot of misinformation regarding china, but its not only by western media, also by chinese media.
Edit: thats why im asking which sources you’d accept on this, so i can base it on these, i know thst there is a lot of misinformation regarding china, but its not only by western media, also by chinese media.
Note, that even chinese language media can be owned by capital interest aligned with US imperialists, I know that these are not easy satisfying answers and I can't really give you a list of approved outlets (cause so many are tied to western capital and its imperialist cooperators), typically its follow the money, research the source, find the counter arguments, its not a 5 minut job, its hours and days.
Okay, yeah i know its really complicated to find out the underlying political agenda. And i honestly just dont have the time to check every source this indepth.
I thought that maybe you have already done the analysis on some media outlets, so that there would be some known to be atleast somewhat acceptable.
Soo .. idk, shall i try to find some more sources?
I know of the official diplomatic complaints though and imo, based on how much chinese investion money is flowing into the complaining countries, it would be unreasonable for these governments to issue complaints without a proper reason. There may honestly also be a framework of competitive elites at place in some of the complaining countries, that would make us influence into these complaints more likely again, but i cant find a concrete list on what the countries are exactly rn (so i could check these countries' characteristics).
I appreciate what China is doing in regards to building socialism but yeah most everything else seems fucked. I have a hard time defending China.
As a black lgbt person I’m like 99% certain China would be a nightmare. Probably less of a nightmare than the USA tho.
Chinese person here and yup, it mostly comes from consuming American media as far as I can tell but older Chinese people usually do not have positive opinions of black people. I've had a hard time convincing elderly Chinese Maoists who lived through WW2 and are as anti-imperialist as any western leftist that black people aren't lazy(and are the fucking backbone of our horrific economy).
Does the party have an official position on anti-black racism? Does it figure in the propaganda?
Like USSR was all in on decrying US racism. By the time I was eight I had to learn like three poems about oppression of black workers by capitalist America...
Yeah they do, in the recent instance of African tenants getting evicted in Guangzhou during COVID, it was the result of local government laws on housing and testing, but also racism, to some extent. Once the central govt became aware if the issue and promised to resolve it, they did so, and it no longer became a story.
China's got a way to go in terms of the people's perception of race (partly because of Western attitudes and partly because, due to economic circumstances, many of its people are still not as exposed to foreigners as you or I have), but the Central govt is not inflaming racial hatred, rather, I think they have a more mild anti-racist view on the matter. They're reporting a lot on the BLM protests too if I remember correctly, and it's mostly positive coverage supporting the protests I think
Guangzhou has a very visible African minority population, probably the largest of any mainland city. China like the rest of Asia is super colorist, and there's a lot of inter-ethnic developing world one-upmanship that goes on. So yes, many Han Chinese people are uncriticly racist--but not to the same systemic level in any way towards black people as what we see in the US. Anecdotally, black people often have wildly different experiences travelling in China, and often have the feeling of being treated more as a foreigner than as a black person, if you get what I mean.
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Yeah, there's definitely some culturally conservative views in China about black people and homosexuality. It's not nearly as terrible as America (I don't think you'll get shot or lynched or anything) it's just more of a pervasive non-understanding. I think that's something that can be fixed though. China's pretty good at doing the propagandizing and if the party decided to adopt a platform that's more accepting of homosexuality, I feel like most people would fall in line pretty quickly. It's weird that that hasn't happened though. One legit criticism of China that you don't actually hear a lot about in American news.
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"the average chinese" uhh
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Your phrasing is problematic. It's "Chinese person" not "Chinese" and there's no "average Chinese person" for the billion people who live there. Just say there's a lot of racist Chinese people.
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stuff it up your butt, acknowledging societal racism is necessary
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Nobody is trying to dehumanize Americans and Americans don't mind being called Americans. People are trying to dehumanize Chinese people and 'a chinese', 'the blacks', 'the gays' etc have a historic use as an othering slur.
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If you look at my comment history like the lib you are you will see that I am quite against the Chinese government. Learn to take criticism.
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Wtf am I enabling here? Just don't profile Chinese people with "average" stereotyping and don't use othering language. I'm condemning your racism you goof.
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I've explained why multiple times. I'm done here. I'm an anarchist. I'm just not a racist
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Cool edit, you definitely don't seem like a racist anymore!
Yeah this guy is suspect. He also made some joke about Joe Biden promising to pardon Bill Cosby to get the black vote. Like, poor taste dude.
First platform ban from chapo.chat? Where is our secret police?
no secret police, it's all out in the open: https://hexbear.net/modlog
The bit where they bring up the Yellow Turban Rebellion is by far the worst part too. Imagine if I brought up some ancient Roman war crime in the same way.
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It's not hard to make a small edit to your comment and move on. Grow up. I condemned the Chinese Government a bunch of times today without using racist language. It's not hard.
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The "two things can be bad at once" argument is also applied to racist language. I'm a queer anarchist. The fact that you've double downed so hard on such a minor problematic mis-phrasing makes you look like a racist.
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No I wouldn't have whined at all because that's true. "The average chinese is extremely racist" is a garbage statement
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It's really not, did you slip through the time stream from 1970 to now? No one has used a nationality as a noun in ages.
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Do you speak English natively, my dude
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It means either you don't speak English natively and you think saying 'a Chinese' is fine because of whatever 1960s textbook you were taught out of and we need to tell you that's wrong, or you're a native English speaker and you're a fucking idiot. You tell us.
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Wait, what lasting effects did an uprising like two thousand years ago had on Chinese culture?
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Kenya has had a recent trend of Chinese owned restaurants with “no blacks allowed” policies... in Kenya...
Is it a trend, or that one restaurant in 2015?
Afaik a lot of this is happening again in context to covid. Same as this: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimination-against-africans .. the problem is, its hard to find a good source regarding the ssa region and i cant remember where i read about it.
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The situation in africa is also complicated regarding racism on the side of chinese workers, especially in the corona crisis, as black workers are seen as dirty and disease spreading and are treated accordingly. (There actually is a source for that, but i'll have to search for it again, as i didnt write it down)
Edit: looks like the situation for all black people in china is like that: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/05/05/china-covid-19-discrimination-against-africans
Human rights watch is a NED funded CIA cut out, not credible on anything
That's why I get an my information about China from the unbiased Epoch Times!
/s obviously
lol, falun gong, and victims of communism are clearly the go to source for understanding Chinese society /s
I love that they have a literal swastika in their logo, but Wikipedia doesn't mention that they're Nazis until like paragraph 8.
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Which sources would you accept? Because this problematic is well documented..
you re-stating hrw talking points doesn't make it anymore real.
Theres a diplomatic complaint by a lot of countries of the ssa region* regarding treatment of their citizens in china and thats not based on hrw..
*Edit
do those diplomats take money from the US state department? have you looked at their connections to the US military industrial complex? the NGO complex?, etc etc
These diplomats also take money from chinese sources in a lot of cases, as china is way more economically active in the region, they wouldnt risk this economic support over mere american propaganda.
Edit: misread your message, i'll look into it..
But you dont really know do you? you just did a google search and found the first thing that confirmed your bias.
Doing a 5 minut google and taking the first link you find isn't serious research on a subject like china which is heavily propagandised in the west. The sheer scope of western propaganda apparatus eludes many people and its easy to get conned..
Edit: also just want to point out, im not saying theres no racism in China, most cultures have some element of racism in them, and even for nations that have begun socialist projects (or claim to depending on how you view china) it can take decades to erode the barrieres between people. My problem was purely your sourcing which revealed a lack of understanding about the foe you are up against (western hegemony and its virtue signaling)
I didnt link the first thing confirming my bias, i was searching for the source i remembered for my claim regarding treatment of ssa citizens in the ssa region by chineses workers. And i thought i could link hrw on a well documented topic. You not giving me sources you'd accept doesnt help at all btw. Just tell me that you dont want your bubble burst, im trying to have a honest dicussion, no need for the aggression dude..
Edit: thats why im asking which sources you'd accept on this, so i can base it on these, i know thst there is a lot of misinformation regarding china, but its not only by western media, also by chinese media.
Note, that even chinese language media can be owned by capital interest aligned with US imperialists, I know that these are not easy satisfying answers and I can't really give you a list of approved outlets (cause so many are tied to western capital and its imperialist cooperators), typically its follow the money, research the source, find the counter arguments, its not a 5 minut job, its hours and days.
Okay, yeah i know its really complicated to find out the underlying political agenda. And i honestly just dont have the time to check every source this indepth. I thought that maybe you have already done the analysis on some media outlets, so that there would be some known to be atleast somewhat acceptable.
Soo .. idk, shall i try to find some more sources? I know of the official diplomatic complaints though and imo, based on how much chinese investion money is flowing into the complaining countries, it would be unreasonable for these governments to issue complaints without a proper reason. There may honestly also be a framework of competitive elites at place in some of the complaining countries, that would make us influence into these complaints more likely again, but i cant find a concrete list on what the countries are exactly rn (so i could check these countries' characteristics).
not trying to be aggressive, apologies if it comes off that way
Okay, no worries then, it came off like that a bit, but that may also be on me..