Do you ever feel like maybe you've been lied to whenever people dig into the Uigher genocide thing and literally EVERY single source eventually circles back to Adrian Zenz or literal State Department mouthpieces like Radio Free Asia?
Do you ever look at the constantly increasing Uigher population and the fact that they, like other ethnic minorities, were exempt from the One Child policy, and think "hmmm you know what that doesn't make sense if they're genociding them?" Because idk, that fact would give me pause before I go into a xenophobic fury like a good little drone.
"Muslims don't care about other Muslims. The only credible source are the countries who've spent the last two decades bombing and killing millions of Muslims."
Real racist shit, accusing Muslims of being untrustworthy whenever their opinions don't line up with the West.
The UN didn't find "nothing," they found a concerning set of laws and practices that didn't rise to the UN's (admittedly broad) definition of genocide. Fwiw, though, the US's treatment of black people also doesn't rise to the UN's standard of genocide, so it doesn't mean everything is squeaky clean over there.
Yep. Ironically all the US propaganda has made it hard to discuss what's actually happening there because in my experience the second you say "it doesn't meet the definition of a genocide", people's brains shut down and they accuse you of defending China and denying genocide.
You can see that they did it with Tibetans before and that's been thrown to the wayside because it's been decades and Tibetans are now more numerous, more educated (in their own language and in Mandarin) and enjoy a higher standard of living than ever before.
They can only lie about this shit for a certain amount of time before the truth becomes insurmountable, but by that time they'll just move on to other bullshit.
It's incredibly generous of you to think that libs dropped Tibet because of material reality not agreeing with their propaganda.
More realistically, Xinjiang is the new hot thing because the State Dept saw the Al Qaeda off-shoots there as a useful tool for sabotaging the Belt and Road initiative and booming PV industry in the region. There's only so much fake tears you can squeeze out of a person and there's no point in diluting the message.
Bruh, they tried to spread info to you by recommending State and Revolution, and without even reading the first 2 sentences on the Wikipedia article you discarded it as nationalism!
That wasn't just judging a book by it's cover, it's judging a book by it's title. If anything, the line of argument that a janitor in the US, a janitor in China, a janitor in Russia and Ukraine have more in common with each other than the billionaires of their respective countries is A: correct, and B: it's probably the least nationalist thing you could say. That other person there, who shares no language, nationality, race or culture as you is closer to you than someone who shares all of those traits with you buy owns several mega yachts. That sounds like nationalism to you?
Just to be clear, are you saying that you thought "State and Revolution" was a slogan like "Blood and Soil" or "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity"? That would be a very unusual reaction but I'm not asking as a point of judgement.
Anyway, it's Lenin's most famous work and you can find it for free very easily online including as text here and as an audiobook here.
it's generally a good idea to Google something you suspect is a slogan as it's frequently some fascist BS. that would have pulled up the work for free from a number of places. I assumed you had done that and were calling Lenin a nationalist.
I respect you admitting as much but I also whole-heartedly recommend that you give the book a read, or even Stalin's book 'Dialectical and Historical Materialism' if you're looking for something shorter... I was very much like you once and reading books like these helped me understand a lot of things.
Don't mean this as a gotcha at all but do you have any idea what ended up happening with the curriculum reform in Inner Mongolia that was set to replace Mongolian with Mandarin in core subjects even in the Mongolian schools? I know there were some protests about it a few years back but I never heard if the government actually walked it back. Would kinda suck if they didn't.
Afaik they're doing pretty good. A part of the china genocide uighurs xinjiang eleven billion dead was helping jurists and clerics in Xinjiang untangle the Salafi/Wahhabi innovation from actual Islam. I believe there were also programs to educate Uighur people about Uighur history and culture, and the history of Xinjiang, to try to inoculate people against Salafist ideology being promulgated from Saudi. Knowledge is power, and knowing as much as possible about Islam and their own culture was apparently a powerful way to shut out Saudi-back Salafi ideology. It's hard to overstate how much Salafism/Wahhabism is an incredible deviation from most prior Islamic schools of thought. It's a really perverse distortion of the religion. Unfortunately with unlimited oil money and the full backing of the US Saudi has been able to shape Islamic education around the world. You want a school, you just call them up and they'll build a school and send you textbooks and teachers that'll start pumping kids full of Salafism.
for what it's worth, Salafism is a sincere religious belief, and most conceptions of human rights hold freedom of religion as inviolable. In China's case, it's the political content of salafism rather than religious intolerance that caused the crackdown. Salafism spread to communities of Hui muslims in the early 20th century, and because this historic community is unrelated to modern political messages, they've been largely exempt from suppression, and China is content to let them practice just an austere form of Islam.
Salafism isn't just a sincere religious belief. It's a political project that is heavily financed by the gulf monarchies all across the world. Particularly vulnerable countries like Pakistan have their school systems injected with gulf money to spread Salafism. Countries like Turkey, which retained a state religious authority, could only slow it's advance. Nowadays, the Salafi lie of being the true Islam as practiced by the ancients is genuinely believed in the background of islamic culture, while the actual religious tradition as it was practiced for more than a thousand years is regarded as 'mystic' and 'sufi'. It's a real problem that is nearly impossible to disentangle. We can only hope that prosperity, rising literacy, and straight up peace would help. But to draw an analogy, the rise of a liberal, urbanized culture in the United States only served to spook the evangelicals and make them go global in their hateful, exploitative, preaching.
most conceptions of human rights hold freedom of religion as inviolable.
Who cares?
Wahhabism is a hyper-reactionary militant political movement every bit as inimical to leftist projects, and human wellbeing in general, as fascism. Sucks for the Hui but their coreligionists are assholes and need to be suppressed. Same with the Christian Fascists in America, same with the fascist Hindutva movement in India, same with the Mormons, same with the Scientologists, same with a dozen other ideological groups that can't play nice with others. I don't care if it's a religion or a secular ideology or a book club. I'm still holding out hope that the Muslims will rise up against Saudi and crush Wahhabism but it seems increasingly unlikely as time goes on.
I hope the Uighurs hang on to their identity then! I’m sure nothing bad is happening to threaten that…
Oh cool a reddit liberal
Do you ever feel like maybe you've been lied to whenever people dig into the Uigher genocide thing and literally EVERY single source eventually circles back to Adrian Zenz or literal State Department mouthpieces like Radio Free Asia?
Do you ever look at the constantly increasing Uigher population and the fact that they, like other ethnic minorities, were exempt from the One Child policy, and think "hmmm you know what that doesn't make sense if they're genociding them?" Because idk, that fact would give me pause before I go into a xenophobic fury like a good little drone.
The UN even investigated the issue and found nothing.
Yeah and a coalition of Muslim majority countries. Libs don't care though, they choose the fascist propaganda
"Muslims don't care about other Muslims. The only credible source are the countries who've spent the last two decades bombing and killing millions of Muslims."
Real racist shit, accusing Muslims of being untrustworthy whenever their opinions don't line up with the West.
The UN didn't find "nothing," they found a concerning set of laws and practices that didn't rise to the UN's (admittedly broad) definition of genocide. Fwiw, though, the US's treatment of black people also doesn't rise to the UN's standard of genocide, so it doesn't mean everything is squeaky clean over there.
Yep. Ironically all the US propaganda has made it hard to discuss what's actually happening there because in my experience the second you say "it doesn't meet the definition of a genocide", people's brains shut down and they accuse you of defending China and denying genocide.
I need to read more on the situation. Do you have a recommendation?
UN report PDF
Text of the Xinjiang anti-extremism law
Thank you 🙏
No, because they work backwards from a predetermined conclusion. They would invent a different genocide if the Uighers didn’t exist.
You can see that they did it with Tibetans before and that's been thrown to the wayside because it's been decades and Tibetans are now more numerous, more educated (in their own language and in Mandarin) and enjoy a higher standard of living than ever before.
They can only lie about this shit for a certain amount of time before the truth becomes insurmountable, but by that time they'll just move on to other bullshit.
Average life expectancy in Tibet has increased from 35 years in 1951 to 72 years in 2021.
Tibet is the first region in China to provide 15 years of publicly funded education, from kindergartens to senior high schools.
This is what liberals oppose.
But what about the rights of the heckin' wholesome lamas to skin their serfs for decorative purposes?
It's incredibly generous of you to think that libs dropped Tibet because of material reality not agreeing with their propaganda.
More realistically, Xinjiang is the new hot thing because the State Dept saw the Al Qaeda off-shoots there as a useful tool for sabotaging the Belt and Road initiative and booming PV industry in the region. There's only so much fake tears you can squeeze out of a person and there's no point in diluting the message.
Well, the Dalai Lama turning out to be a pedo probably didn't help the lib cause either.
What’s a reddit?
the source of your case of brainworms
Oh no! Do you have better propaganda I should consume??
State and Revolution
That sounds like nationalism!
internationalism is nationalism,
Literally the opposite. But libs are so politically illiterate they do not understand what internationalism is.
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It is quite literally internationalism
Most accurate username tbh
You just refuse to learn anything about anything, don’t you?
Did I miss someone trying to spread info in this thread? All i got from you was pig poop, but sure pretend you had something to say I don’t mind
Bruh, they tried to spread info to you by recommending State and Revolution, and without even reading the first 2 sentences on the Wikipedia article you discarded it as nationalism!
That wasn't just judging a book by it's cover, it's judging a book by it's title. If anything, the line of argument that a janitor in the US, a janitor in China, a janitor in Russia and Ukraine have more in common with each other than the billionaires of their respective countries is A: correct, and B: it's probably the least nationalist thing you could say. That other person there, who shares no language, nationality, race or culture as you is closer to you than someone who shares all of those traits with you buy owns several mega yachts. That sounds like nationalism to you?
As a matter of fact it wasn’t clear that was supposed to be a book! Sounded more like a slogan but you know, let’s all rush to judgement yeah?
Just to be clear, are you saying that you thought "State and Revolution" was a slogan like "Blood and Soil" or "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity"? That would be a very unusual reaction but I'm not asking as a point of judgement.
Anyway, it's Lenin's most famous work and you can find it for free very easily online including as text here and as an audiobook here.
Personally, I think the best introductory work for someone who doesn't have the patience for The Principles of Communism (and I don't have that patience myself) is Engels' Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, here as text and here as an excellent audiobook.
Let me know if there's anything that I can do to help.
Yes, that’s what I thought lol. In my defense, posting in here led to my inbox blowing up so I didn’t spend much time thinking about it.
No worries. It's no coincidence that your education system, like mine, probably didn't inform you about those sorts of things.
it's generally a good idea to Google something you suspect is a slogan as it's frequently some fascist BS. that would have pulled up the work for free from a number of places. I assumed you had done that and were calling Lenin a nationalist.
I respect you admitting as much but I also whole-heartedly recommend that you give the book a read, or even Stalin's book 'Dialectical and Historical Materialism' if you're looking for something shorter... I was very much like you once and reading books like these helped me understand a lot of things.
Here on Hexbear we assume everyone knows who Vladimir Lenin is. He is very famous. He was in the Beatles!
you literally rushed to judgement without knowing what it was
it's unbelievable how incredibly dumb reddit libs are
…yes that’s my point? I rushed to judgment and so did he. My god you’re dumb.
lol, i'm sure that's what you meant
Here's a good starter
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Yeah and "Combat Liberalism" sounds like a handbook for English martial arts.
Do we ever!
Yeah here's some good shit for you it's right on your intellectual level
Drat! I was hoping to be intellectually stimulated, but you decided to go sexual instead. A bold maneuver, but am I won over in spite of myself??
If you look at a pig with shit on itself and think "this is sexual" you're the one with a problem.
Right? I didn't even know how to respond to that lmao
No u
I'm sorry to break it to you but pigs cannot in fact consent. leave them alone.
You looked at a picture of doo doo on a pig and the first word that came to your mind was "sex"? lmao nasty ass redditor
I’ve seen what you like you dirty little boy
Any amount of bullying you may have received in high school was not enough.
You guys are so mean 😢
We are being let out of the posting chambers to dunk for the first time in years, so yes, we are mean and eager to dunk on libs.
However, we also give free hugs, here's yours:
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You're saying it like you think what you usually consume isn't propaganda..
Oh no the tankie doesn’t understand the word “better”
I'm surprised the lib knows they're consuming shit propaganda
Actually reading something for yourself? Literally any literature.
Michael Parenti, Samir Amin and Vijay Prashad's works are good starting points in my opinion.
You're correct! Nothing bad is happening at all, things going pretty well actually. Population on the rise, plenty of new Uyghur language protections.
Don't mean this as a gotcha at all but do you have any idea what ended up happening with the curriculum reform in Inner Mongolia that was set to replace Mongolian with Mandarin in core subjects even in the Mongolian schools? I know there were some protests about it a few years back but I never heard if the government actually walked it back. Would kinda suck if they didn't.
I unfortunately don't, sorry about that. If I come across it I'll let you know!
Afaik they're doing pretty good. A part of the china genocide uighurs xinjiang eleven billion dead was helping jurists and clerics in Xinjiang untangle the Salafi/Wahhabi innovation from actual Islam. I believe there were also programs to educate Uighur people about Uighur history and culture, and the history of Xinjiang, to try to inoculate people against Salafist ideology being promulgated from Saudi. Knowledge is power, and knowing as much as possible about Islam and their own culture was apparently a powerful way to shut out Saudi-back Salafi ideology. It's hard to overstate how much Salafism/Wahhabism is an incredible deviation from most prior Islamic schools of thought. It's a really perverse distortion of the religion. Unfortunately with unlimited oil money and the full backing of the US Saudi has been able to shape Islamic education around the world. You want a school, you just call them up and they'll build a school and send you textbooks and teachers that'll start pumping kids full of Salafism.
Yes the saudi/turkey sponsored mosques in belgium/bosnia/germany all the time, which is one of the reasons that so many isis fighter came from there.
for what it's worth, Salafism is a sincere religious belief, and most conceptions of human rights hold freedom of religion as inviolable. In China's case, it's the political content of salafism rather than religious intolerance that caused the crackdown. Salafism spread to communities of Hui muslims in the early 20th century, and because this historic community is unrelated to modern political messages, they've been largely exempt from suppression, and China is content to let them practice just an austere form of Islam.
Salafism isn't just a sincere religious belief. It's a political project that is heavily financed by the gulf monarchies all across the world. Particularly vulnerable countries like Pakistan have their school systems injected with gulf money to spread Salafism. Countries like Turkey, which retained a state religious authority, could only slow it's advance. Nowadays, the Salafi lie of being the true Islam as practiced by the ancients is genuinely believed in the background of islamic culture, while the actual religious tradition as it was practiced for more than a thousand years is regarded as 'mystic' and 'sufi'. It's a real problem that is nearly impossible to disentangle. We can only hope that prosperity, rising literacy, and straight up peace would help. But to draw an analogy, the rise of a liberal, urbanized culture in the United States only served to spook the evangelicals and make them go global in their hateful, exploitative, preaching.
And that's a problem.
Who cares?
Wahhabism is a hyper-reactionary militant political movement every bit as inimical to leftist projects, and human wellbeing in general, as fascism. Sucks for the Hui but their coreligionists are assholes and need to be suppressed. Same with the Christian Fascists in America, same with the fascist Hindutva movement in India, same with the Mormons, same with the Scientologists, same with a dozen other ideological groups that can't play nice with others. I don't care if it's a religion or a secular ideology or a book club. I'm still holding out hope that the Muslims will rise up against Saudi and crush Wahhabism but it seems increasingly unlikely as time goes on.
Oh you like pig poop too? I can see you like it a lot.
These attempts at comebacks are fucking weak do better and try less
I see you trying friend. It’s ok.
:zenz: