I feel like this website is substantially different from the subreddit in lots of ways I don't like. Feels like it's slowly morphing into Every Other Leftist Community on the internet, so I guess I should savor my insults while we still have them? I dunno, I'm just complaining into the void.
And before anyone asks I'm trans, I have no problem with neopronouns, but I do have a problem with pronouns being opt-out instead of opt-in. I just don't like the trajectory this website seems to be going in, but I'm also not really sure why I'm bothering to post this because the mods, as with all active mods on all forums, pretty clearly don't really care about the opinions of people who don't already agree with them.
The main difference is that it's smaller and still figuring stuff out, the old chapo sub had a long time for gradual growth, and a lot of similar dramas and struggle sessions throughout its life.
I'm honestly confused at how out of proportion this has become, the site wasn't made by a few nasty mods who don't listen, it's been since the beginning a community thing and there's constant dialogue and feedback. I'm not really sure what else they're supposed to do given that the pronouns and everything around it was something that was asked and strongly pushed for since the beginning and they've just tried to carefully integrate stuff in response to the feedback. In some ways i've seen a lot of people who not long ago were saying the opposite, that the progress/response on the pronouns thing was too slow.
Idk, the "don't care about the opinions of people who don't already agree with them" seems extremely unfair to me given the constant dialogue and self-crit of the devs/admins/mods. I don't know what your experience has been but it seems in bad faith.
Maybe I'm legitimately in the minority here and just don't wanna admit it, I dunno. I'm just saying my piece, and clearly some people agree with me. Maybe most don't, I don't really know.
No that's good, your piece is valuable as well.
And I do think that a lot of the issue is not the actual substance but small details in how it was communicated which kinda helped it spiral into struggle session, like a lot of people here are saying, but I have a harder time on the "mods don't listen" thing since from what I've seen the whole time since this site was first launched, is a constant attempt at listening/feedback and trying to do/be better.
Obviously everyone's experience is different, and I don't think there's a "perfect" solution to this whole opt-in/opt-out stuff, but It seems like the result of this is probably the best compromise and a better understanding of the topic for many. Path to growth for both a lot of users and the dev/mod team, imo.
Eh. This is all too online anyway, I just hope everyone here (angry or not) is having a nice day, and if you're a leftist I am still your comrade, that's not gonna change.
Ye i'm sorry if i've been needlessly angry in other comments. This whole thing has brought out a lot of passive-aggressiveness and vitriol, and it's been tiring. Seeing it here once more made me angry again, and I don't like being angry for this kinda thing.
Maybe i'm too optimistic but I honestly like this outcome. Probably the best compromise we can get for now on the pronouns, and opening up a topic that probably would have created tension anyway, so resolving that tension now is good.
Honestly what I feel is the biggest lesson here for me is that communication is, as always, a messy thing. Bad faith, passive-aggressiveness and other such things are extremely unproductive, and we're used to employ those tactics against bad actors/wreckers/chuds so everyone is used to a default defensive stance, which complicates things.
Wow, I thought the opt-out pronouns was a great solution. Seeing this comment with so many upvotes is depressing. Pronouns are why you don't like the trajectory of this website? JFC
Agreed, this is wild. How hard is it to go into account settings and click a couple of times. "I used to be leftist, but then chapo.chat asked me to opt out of pronouns."
Thank you, you have nailed it. I came to Chapo for the dirtbag aesthetic and the leftism. I feel like this site has lost its edge. When I see posts on main about horoscopes and witchcraft, I realize that we have descended into radlib territory.
See I don't even care about the horoscopes and witchcraft stuff, I always thought the whole "everything I don't like is libshit" thing was stupid, and that's one thing that I'm glad seems to be going away. I'm more just talking the like.. general vibes, which I'm aware is a useless statement.
You're right. Having beatnik be the one who made this site will mean its slow slide into being not chapo, he was never the mod there that actually made it good and understood the purpose of the community.
This move is dumb and alienating to users who simply don't want to be forced into having some pronoun tag. Thinking that combats transphobia is idiocy.
I really miss the old subreddit right now. Chapo was bursting at the seams with leftist energy. In particular, what always kept me coming back was how funny it was. God there were so many amazing posts. Italian AOC, making fun of libs, bullying chuds. Chapo assumed good faith and that's what made the dirtbag aesthetic work. We gather here to make fun of libs and say that it's ok to kill slaveowners. The posting level on this site was starting to resemble the old subreddit, and then the pronoun debate happened. I came to Chapo because I was tired of walking on eggshells all of the time. On r/chapotraphouse, if I had a shit take, people made fun of me until I got better. Here, I'm worried that if I have a shit take, I'll get banned. That's the difference.
You're not going to get banned for a "shit take" and this tiny insignificant struggle sesh is not going to stop us from growing and being as active and funny as we were, for fuck's sake. The site like month's old and it's just had its first big user spike. Do you know how long it took for chapo to reach the insane level of activity it had before the ban, and how many similar issues/drama it had to go through?
The good thing about this place is that we can actually get rid of the shit we couldn't on reddit because it was reddit, and that includes being a space that's just a tiny bit nicer for trans & enby peeps, and being tougher on specifically transphobic and exclusionary shit related to that. How in any way that's incompatible with "leftist energy" or being funny is beyond me.
This is like "muh freeze peach"/"we can't say anything or we get cancelled" or stupidpol bullshit, shit take =/= transphobic/stupidly exclusionary stuff that nobody wants to fucking see, jfc.
It's very weird and depressing to see people complain about the addition of such a basic site feature...because..something something... those damn radical witchcraft transes!!
Really sucks to be reminded how much even in "leftism", people just fucking hate trans people, or don't care to analyze how it costs $0.00 to just.. ignore the new feature.
Wow this comment is modern art, and is probably one of the worst comments in this entire thread:
What always kept me coming back was how funny [the old sub] was..
We gather here to make fun of libs and say that it's okay to kill slaveowners.
and then the pronoun debate happened.
You're a "Well there's your problem" podcast fan, complaining about pronouns making his memes less funny.
You think you're walking on eggshells.. on meme sites? Reddit is way more strict, as you literally admit, they censor all kinds of leftist stuff and even current news articles that make certain entities look bad.
But because here, we are discussing pronouns, it's as bad as Reddit. Lmao.
I don't usually agree with your takes and IDK if Beatnik is the entire problem, but I do agree with this take. Definitely do not like the nu-nu-mods compared to the old-nu-mods.
I will give fair credit for the site existing at all, if thats the case. I obviosuly don't really like their moderation style, but I will 100% give them credit for the site existing. Even if it evolves into something I personally do not like, and something that's not very much like the old straight from the go chapo, it's still good that this place exists.
He isn't the entire problem, but he's making the choices when it comes to other moderators, especially the ones that seem to revel in antagonizing users and starting shit among the people here.
That's the origin of bad choices that lead to this sort of vibe. With all of the needless immaturity and drama on the Discord, it almost perfectly filtered for the shittiest moderators who enjoyed that sort of thing, while others were bullied off of the team or kicked as the problem moderators sought to cancel them for anything slightly controversial, like they did to @storyofrachel.
Those moderators carried over here and are now going to be grandfathered in for the foreseeable future. Abuse of power is always an issue with free internet moderation, but this is somehow an enhanced version of that.
This move is not dumb, what the hell, it's literally just default "none" pronouns, you dont even have to do anything. No one is claiming that this will singlehandedly destroy transphobia. I am a living trans person. I know there is real, more important shit out there. But the fact that you take the time to complain about an overall positive feature is so gross.
I'm sorry the memes aren't as good as they used to be, please don't use that as an excuse to shit on trans people and/or stuff you perceive as related to us, wtf. Grow the fuck up.
If you have a problem with a specific mod, talk about that.
I dunno, there were a lot more memorable posters than just Neera. Though Neera was great. PraximusPrime, 7DeadlyFetishes, Rebro, PrinceKroptkin, StoryofRachel.. probably others that aren't coming to mind right now, too. For better or worse, I feel like Chapo had just as many strong personalities that people recognized.. maybe even more, honestly. I don't recognize that many posters here yet, but that might just be because it's not been around for as long. Shame most of the Old capital P Posters didn't come over, though.
I feel like this website is substantially different from the subreddit in lots of ways I don't like. Feels like it's slowly morphing into Every Other Leftist Community on the internet, so I guess I should savor my insults while we still have them? I dunno, I'm just complaining into the void.
And before anyone asks I'm trans, I have no problem with neopronouns, but I do have a problem with pronouns being opt-out instead of opt-in. I just don't like the trajectory this website seems to be going in, but I'm also not really sure why I'm bothering to post this because the mods, as with all active mods on all forums, pretty clearly don't really care about the opinions of people who don't already agree with them.
The main difference is that it's smaller and still figuring stuff out, the old chapo sub had a long time for gradual growth, and a lot of similar dramas and struggle sessions throughout its life.
I'm honestly confused at how out of proportion this has become, the site wasn't made by a few nasty mods who don't listen, it's been since the beginning a community thing and there's constant dialogue and feedback. I'm not really sure what else they're supposed to do given that the pronouns and everything around it was something that was asked and strongly pushed for since the beginning and they've just tried to carefully integrate stuff in response to the feedback. In some ways i've seen a lot of people who not long ago were saying the opposite, that the progress/response on the pronouns thing was too slow.
Idk, the "don't care about the opinions of people who don't already agree with them" seems extremely unfair to me given the constant dialogue and self-crit of the devs/admins/mods. I don't know what your experience has been but it seems in bad faith.
Maybe I'm legitimately in the minority here and just don't wanna admit it, I dunno. I'm just saying my piece, and clearly some people agree with me. Maybe most don't, I don't really know.
No that's good, your piece is valuable as well. And I do think that a lot of the issue is not the actual substance but small details in how it was communicated which kinda helped it spiral into struggle session, like a lot of people here are saying, but I have a harder time on the "mods don't listen" thing since from what I've seen the whole time since this site was first launched, is a constant attempt at listening/feedback and trying to do/be better. Obviously everyone's experience is different, and I don't think there's a "perfect" solution to this whole opt-in/opt-out stuff, but It seems like the result of this is probably the best compromise and a better understanding of the topic for many. Path to growth for both a lot of users and the dev/mod team, imo.
Eh. This is all too online anyway, I just hope everyone here (angry or not) is having a nice day, and if you're a leftist I am still your comrade, that's not gonna change.
Aww, thank you. Good faith posting like this is why solidarity works.
Ye i'm sorry if i've been needlessly angry in other comments. This whole thing has brought out a lot of passive-aggressiveness and vitriol, and it's been tiring. Seeing it here once more made me angry again, and I don't like being angry for this kinda thing. Maybe i'm too optimistic but I honestly like this outcome. Probably the best compromise we can get for now on the pronouns, and opening up a topic that probably would have created tension anyway, so resolving that tension now is good.
Honestly what I feel is the biggest lesson here for me is that communication is, as always, a messy thing. Bad faith, passive-aggressiveness and other such things are extremely unproductive, and we're used to employ those tactics against bad actors/wreckers/chuds so everyone is used to a default defensive stance, which complicates things.
Anyway love y'all reading this.
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Wow, I thought the opt-out pronouns was a great solution. Seeing this comment with so many upvotes is depressing. Pronouns are why you don't like the trajectory of this website? JFC
Agreed, this is wild. How hard is it to go into account settings and click a couple of times. "I used to be leftist, but then chapo.chat asked me to opt out of pronouns."
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Alot of people also tought that the opt in was great
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Thank you, you have nailed it. I came to Chapo for the dirtbag aesthetic and the leftism. I feel like this site has lost its edge. When I see posts on main about horoscopes and witchcraft, I realize that we have descended into radlib territory.
Edit: What did I say?
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See I don't even care about the horoscopes and witchcraft stuff, I always thought the whole "everything I don't like is libshit" thing was stupid, and that's one thing that I'm glad seems to be going away. I'm more just talking the like.. general vibes, which I'm aware is a useless statement.
You're right. Having beatnik be the one who made this site will mean its slow slide into being not chapo, he was never the mod there that actually made it good and understood the purpose of the community.
This move is dumb and alienating to users who simply don't want to be forced into having some pronoun tag. Thinking that combats transphobia is idiocy.
I really miss the old subreddit right now. Chapo was bursting at the seams with leftist energy. In particular, what always kept me coming back was how funny it was. God there were so many amazing posts. Italian AOC, making fun of libs, bullying chuds. Chapo assumed good faith and that's what made the dirtbag aesthetic work. We gather here to make fun of libs and say that it's ok to kill slaveowners. The posting level on this site was starting to resemble the old subreddit, and then the pronoun debate happened. I came to Chapo because I was tired of walking on eggshells all of the time. On r/chapotraphouse, if I had a shit take, people made fun of me until I got better. Here, I'm worried that if I have a shit take, I'll get banned. That's the difference.
You're not going to get banned for a "shit take" and this tiny insignificant struggle sesh is not going to stop us from growing and being as active and funny as we were, for fuck's sake. The site like month's old and it's just had its first big user spike. Do you know how long it took for chapo to reach the insane level of activity it had before the ban, and how many similar issues/drama it had to go through?
The good thing about this place is that we can actually get rid of the shit we couldn't on reddit because it was reddit, and that includes being a space that's just a tiny bit nicer for trans & enby peeps, and being tougher on specifically transphobic and exclusionary shit related to that. How in any way that's incompatible with "leftist energy" or being funny is beyond me.
This is like "muh freeze peach"/"we can't say anything or we get cancelled" or stupidpol bullshit, shit take =/= transphobic/stupidly exclusionary stuff that nobody wants to fucking see, jfc.
It's very weird and depressing to see people complain about the addition of such a basic site feature...because..something something... those damn radical witchcraft transes!!
Really sucks to be reminded how much even in "leftism", people just fucking hate trans people, or don't care to analyze how it costs $0.00 to just.. ignore the new feature.
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Wow this comment is modern art, and is probably one of the worst comments in this entire thread:
You're a "Well there's your problem" podcast fan, complaining about pronouns making his memes less funny.
You think you're walking on eggshells.. on meme sites? Reddit is way more strict, as you literally admit, they censor all kinds of leftist stuff and even current news articles that make certain entities look bad.
But because here, we are discussing pronouns, it's as bad as Reddit. Lmao.
I don't usually agree with your takes and IDK if Beatnik is the entire problem, but I do agree with this take. Definitely do not like the nu-nu-mods compared to the old-nu-mods.
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I will give fair credit for the site existing at all, if thats the case. I obviosuly don't really like their moderation style, but I will 100% give them credit for the site existing. Even if it evolves into something I personally do not like, and something that's not very much like the old
straight from the gochapo, it's still good that this place exists.He isn't the entire problem, but he's making the choices when it comes to other moderators, especially the ones that seem to revel in antagonizing users and starting shit among the people here.
That's the origin of bad choices that lead to this sort of vibe. With all of the needless immaturity and drama on the Discord, it almost perfectly filtered for the shittiest moderators who enjoyed that sort of thing, while others were bullied off of the team or kicked as the problem moderators sought to cancel them for anything slightly controversial, like they did to @storyofrachel.
Those moderators carried over here and are now going to be grandfathered in for the foreseeable future. Abuse of power is always an issue with free internet moderation, but this is somehow an enhanced version of that.
This move is not dumb, what the hell, it's literally just default "none" pronouns, you dont even have to do anything. No one is claiming that this will singlehandedly destroy transphobia. I am a living trans person. I know there is real, more important shit out there. But the fact that you take the time to complain about an overall positive feature is so gross.
I'm sorry the memes aren't as good as they used to be, please don't use that as an excuse to shit on trans people and/or stuff you perceive as related to us, wtf. Grow the fuck up.
If you have a problem with a specific mod, talk about that.
If i cant call everyone a liberal but me and have to adhere to some cabal's edicts, i have just fallen into a traditional tankie time sink
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What do horoscopes and witchcraft have to do with pronouns?
Do you really see pronouns as "radlib" and the opposite of leftism?
You saw a post about something gender-y and decided to go off about those damn pagans making your website less edgy??
Maybe the addition of fairy pronouns?
You're getting downvoted because you give off edgy teen vibes by this comment probably.
The dirtbag aesthetic has been made null since 2016 and replaced with r/stupidpoll
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I dunno, there were a lot more memorable posters than just Neera. Though Neera was great. PraximusPrime, 7DeadlyFetishes, Rebro, PrinceKroptkin, StoryofRachel.. probably others that aren't coming to mind right now, too. For better or worse, I feel like Chapo had just as many strong personalities that people recognized.. maybe even more, honestly. I don't recognize that many posters here yet, but that might just be because it's not been around for as long. Shame most of the Old capital P Posters didn't come over, though.