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  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    where you compare PRC's actual outreach and socioeconomic development to USA who has literally waged racist and genocidal campaigns against both Black & Indigenous

    not to mention the ACTUAL comparison to be made which is America's Global War on Terror... lol

    you have nothing

    • anthm17 [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      who has literally waged racist and genocidal campaigns against both Black & Indigenous

      Canada did too.

      Infamously via forced education.

      you have nothing

      All you have is weird whataboutism where you pretend that I support any of those things.

      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        every advanced country on Earth has some form of mandatory schooling lol... what are you talking about?

        adult education & deradicalization is only bad if the PRC does it? but the fact that the One Child Policy only applies to Han families in Xinjiang means that cultural genocide is occurring? what are you talking about?

        • anthm17 [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          deradicalization

          What percentage of Uyghurs does the Chinese government consider radicalized?

          • SheetsOfLenin [he/him]
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            4 years ago

            Regular massive terror attacks in one's country tend to be a sign action is necessary. I'm sure the Chinese imams who support such programs are just puppets, and education is just a ploy by the devious Asiatics of course

            • anthm17 [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              Does this trust of the state extend to things like the Patriot act?

              • SheetsOfLenin [he/him]
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                4 years ago

                Are you a fucking anarchist lmao? The fact that you'd ask for me to spell out the difference is childish and almost certainly in bad faith.

                'State do thing? Oh really? Have you heard of other state that do other thing'

                You're wasting everyone's time

                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  I don't trust broad counter-terror programs, sorry.

        • anthm17 [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          every advanced country on Earth has some form of mandatory schooling lol… what are you talking about?

          I'm talking about how attempting to forcibly erase a culture is a crime against humanity.

          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            any actual proof such things have occurred, or just rabid anti-communist speculation & sensationalism?

            • anthm17 [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              You wouldn't accept proof because you're a zealot.

                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  Adrian Zenz

                  He's not a zealot he's a crank :p

                  Massive gulf between believe the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and being completely uncritical of China's actions.

                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    No, Adrian Zenz is literally a zealot

                    he said that Jews have to accept Christ to be allowed into heaven. Zenz also said that he was sent to Earth by God to destroy Communism. Is that what you want too?

                      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                        4 years ago

                        wait, did requiring engravings of knives purchased in these areas start before or after the fundamentalist sectarianism?

                        Hui Muslims also do not completely escape this terrifying inculcation. Which isn’t to say it’s some inherent feature of Islam, obviously not if these groups have co-existed for so long, but we can’t ignore the extent to which a recent narrative of “cultural genocide” gets slathered on these stories.

                        Hui Muslims are socio-linguistically & historically of Chinese descent. And they are also known to have Salafist & extreme sectarian groups moving in and out of these areas in Xinjiang. Hui muslims have been implicated in Heroin rings & moving those drugs to those Uyghur areas.

                        To what extent is Daesh and its outgrowths an encouragement for these groups elsewhere & why was the reporter A. Vltchek found dead under suspicious circumstances in Turkey?

                        Is this global nexus of oil money & militant funding & state surveillance not just a way to encircle China from Central Asia?

                        • anthm17 [he/him]
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                          4 years ago

                          Hui Muslims are socio-linguistically & historically of Chinese descent. And they are also known to have Salafist & extreme sectarian groups moving in and out of these areas in Xinjiang. Hui muslims have been implicated in Heroin rings & moving those drugs to those Uyghur areas.

                          Well damn, better do some collective punishment then.

                          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                            4 years ago

                            No, that's the thing, Hui muslims are also involved in criminal actions and stoking seditionist sentiment

                            You want Daesh in PRC? pretty weird ngl

                            • anthm17 [he/him]
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                              4 years ago

                              You want Daesh in PRC? pretty weird ngl

                              Yes, and I want it here too obviously. That's why I'm not demanding Ilhan Omar be sent to a camp.

                              I just love terrorism.

                              • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                4 years ago

                                education & economic development are not law enforcement issues in the same way as the United States’ War on Drugs & racist for-profit prison industry.

                                you can parse the lasting social benefits & fundamental uplifting aim of one over the other, i am sure of this.

                                https://www.sbs.com.au/news/china-releases-video-of-uighur-musician-disputing-reported-death

                                the way news & sensationalism & outright lies blend so perfectly into jingoism can’t be ignored. none of us are immune to propaganda, but I think we can comb through most of these claims about PRC and find very little real or irrefutable evidence.

                                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                  4 years ago

                                  education & economic development are not law enforcement issues in the same way as the United States’ War on Drugs & racist for-profit prison industry.

                                  Except you just implied it's part of counter-terror efforts.

                                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                    4 years ago

                                    yes, people who have access to gainful employment and are able to socially advance within society are far less likely to become violent seditionists, wouldn't you agree?

                                    poverty is endemic to these regions, but the knife attacks coincide with the rise of CIA backed fundamentalist Salafism.

                                    • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                      4 years ago

                                      yes, people who have access to gainful employment and are able to socially advance within society are far less likely to become violent seditionists

                                      Sure.

                                      Now do it while respecting human rights.

                                      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                        4 years ago

                                        yes, giving people gainful employment and education and opportunities for advancement is literally guaranteeing autonomy & self-reliance & engendering human rights

                                        • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                          4 years ago

                                          Giving?

                                          So these are all volunteers?

                                          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                            4 years ago

                                            Yes

                                            "According to the official Chinese version, during the past three years voluntary education has been imparted to the Muslim population of Xinjiang so that their extremist tendencies may be rectified."

                                            • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                              4 years ago

                                              According to the official Chinese version

                                              According to the state the state didn't do bad things.

                                              You can always trust the state.

                                              • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                4 years ago

                                                Well, you posted New Strait Times... so you must trust them, right?

                                                https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2019/08/512399/uyghurs-freely-join-re-education-camps

                                                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                  4 years ago

                                                  hmm https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/24/china-cables-leak-no-escapes-reality-china-uighur-prison-camp

                                                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                    4 years ago

                                                    weird, that article you sent says

                                                    “The purpose [of the camp network] was to try to indoctrinate and change an entire population by channeling them through this dedicated system,” said Adrian Zenz, a leading researcher into the Xinjiang internment camps, who is senior fellow in China studies at the victims of communism foundation"

                                                    So you take that Guardian's interpretation of Zenz' lies as fact huh?

                                                    • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                      4 years ago

                                                      No, but it's hard to find a publication that put out the leaks without referencing that anti-communist wacko.

                                                      Doesn't change the contents of the leaks.

                                                      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                        4 years ago

                                                        yes, if these speculations contain positive references to Zenz in any way, then they are suspect

                                                        • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                                          4 years ago

                                                          The news is the leaks not the biased presentation.

                                                          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                            4 years ago

                                                            Have you seen the provenance of these supposed "leaks"? Because, without actual verification of that information, it's just badly written Chinese script on paper.

                                                            Have you seen actual footage inside the schools?

                                                            Have you seen any physical evidence to suggest that people are being abused or culturally genocided or killed by PRC?

                                                            Because I don't think you've seen anything of that nature, you just take Adrian Zenz' sensationalism & anti-communism as unquestionable

                              • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                4 years ago

                                and yes, US has racist extrajudicial Muslim torture camps LOL... I wonder wtf you're actually standing up for here?

                                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                  4 years ago

                                  Obviously we just need more of that.

                                  I wonder wtf you’re actually standing up for here?

                                  Does it help to point that I'm

                                  1. not a nationalist
                                  2. not even an American, I just live here.

                                  In other words I'm not standing up for anything except people I think deserve it.

                                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                    4 years ago

                                    sounds like you just need cope because USA is melting down and PRC is actually holding together and improving the lot of their people using ideologies & economic models that defy Western imperialism

                                    you can try and harp on unsupported & biased Western propaganda on PRC. I will wait for actual evidence

                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1160094.shtml this is from last year & seems to indicate things are improving from the perspective of government openness & goodwill

                    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47191952 this is also from last year and maybe passes the sniff-test for you here for “East vs. West media bias” maybe not idgaf

                    https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/china-muslims-work-change-perceptions-after-knife-attacks this is VOA, so it’s definitely tripe, but even it still was giving somewhat of an even-handed & in-depth perspective on the issues at play here in the Obama era

                    https://thediplomat.com/2014/10/chinese-salafism-and-the-saudi-connection/ this too gives nuance and offers wider connections to the general state of Islam globally. But it leaves out key connections between the “openness” reforms of Deng’s era & how these have always led to potentially dangerous Western & even extreme theocratic influences into the country