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    • anthm17 [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      Adrian Zenz

      He's not a zealot he's a crank :p

      Massive gulf between believe the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and being completely uncritical of China's actions.

      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        No, Adrian Zenz is literally a zealot

        he said that Jews have to accept Christ to be allowed into heaven. Zenz also said that he was sent to Earth by God to destroy Communism. Is that what you want too?

          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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            4 years ago

            wait, did requiring engravings of knives purchased in these areas start before or after the fundamentalist sectarianism?

            Hui Muslims also do not completely escape this terrifying inculcation. Which isn’t to say it’s some inherent feature of Islam, obviously not if these groups have co-existed for so long, but we can’t ignore the extent to which a recent narrative of “cultural genocide” gets slathered on these stories.

            Hui Muslims are socio-linguistically & historically of Chinese descent. And they are also known to have Salafist & extreme sectarian groups moving in and out of these areas in Xinjiang. Hui muslims have been implicated in Heroin rings & moving those drugs to those Uyghur areas.

            To what extent is Daesh and its outgrowths an encouragement for these groups elsewhere & why was the reporter A. Vltchek found dead under suspicious circumstances in Turkey?

            Is this global nexus of oil money & militant funding & state surveillance not just a way to encircle China from Central Asia?

            • anthm17 [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              Hui Muslims are socio-linguistically & historically of Chinese descent. And they are also known to have Salafist & extreme sectarian groups moving in and out of these areas in Xinjiang. Hui muslims have been implicated in Heroin rings & moving those drugs to those Uyghur areas.

              Well damn, better do some collective punishment then.

              • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                4 years ago

                No, that's the thing, Hui muslims are also involved in criminal actions and stoking seditionist sentiment

                You want Daesh in PRC? pretty weird ngl

                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  You want Daesh in PRC? pretty weird ngl

                  Yes, and I want it here too obviously. That's why I'm not demanding Ilhan Omar be sent to a camp.

                  I just love terrorism.

                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    education & economic development are not law enforcement issues in the same way as the United States’ War on Drugs & racist for-profit prison industry.

                    you can parse the lasting social benefits & fundamental uplifting aim of one over the other, i am sure of this.

                    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/china-releases-video-of-uighur-musician-disputing-reported-death

                    the way news & sensationalism & outright lies blend so perfectly into jingoism can’t be ignored. none of us are immune to propaganda, but I think we can comb through most of these claims about PRC and find very little real or irrefutable evidence.

                    • anthm17 [he/him]
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                      4 years ago

                      education & economic development are not law enforcement issues in the same way as the United States’ War on Drugs & racist for-profit prison industry.

                      Except you just implied it's part of counter-terror efforts.

                      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                        4 years ago

                        yes, people who have access to gainful employment and are able to socially advance within society are far less likely to become violent seditionists, wouldn't you agree?

                        poverty is endemic to these regions, but the knife attacks coincide with the rise of CIA backed fundamentalist Salafism.

                        • anthm17 [he/him]
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                          4 years ago

                          yes, people who have access to gainful employment and are able to socially advance within society are far less likely to become violent seditionists

                          Sure.

                          Now do it while respecting human rights.

                          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                            4 years ago

                            yes, giving people gainful employment and education and opportunities for advancement is literally guaranteeing autonomy & self-reliance & engendering human rights

                            • anthm17 [he/him]
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                              4 years ago

                              Giving?

                              So these are all volunteers?

                              • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                4 years ago

                                Yes

                                "According to the official Chinese version, during the past three years voluntary education has been imparted to the Muslim population of Xinjiang so that their extremist tendencies may be rectified."

                                • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                  4 years ago

                                  According to the official Chinese version

                                  According to the state the state didn't do bad things.

                                  You can always trust the state.

                                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                    4 years ago

                                    Well, you posted New Strait Times... so you must trust them, right?

                                    https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2019/08/512399/uyghurs-freely-join-re-education-camps

                                    • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                      4 years ago

                                      hmm https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/24/china-cables-leak-no-escapes-reality-china-uighur-prison-camp

                                      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                        4 years ago

                                        weird, that article you sent says

                                        “The purpose [of the camp network] was to try to indoctrinate and change an entire population by channeling them through this dedicated system,” said Adrian Zenz, a leading researcher into the Xinjiang internment camps, who is senior fellow in China studies at the victims of communism foundation"

                                        So you take that Guardian's interpretation of Zenz' lies as fact huh?

                                        • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                          4 years ago

                                          No, but it's hard to find a publication that put out the leaks without referencing that anti-communist wacko.

                                          Doesn't change the contents of the leaks.

                                          • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                            4 years ago

                                            yes, if these speculations contain positive references to Zenz in any way, then they are suspect

                                            • anthm17 [he/him]
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                                              4 years ago

                                              The news is the leaks not the biased presentation.

                                              • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                                                4 years ago

                                                Have you seen the provenance of these supposed "leaks"? Because, without actual verification of that information, it's just badly written Chinese script on paper.

                                                Have you seen actual footage inside the schools?

                                                Have you seen any physical evidence to suggest that people are being abused or culturally genocided or killed by PRC?

                                                Because I don't think you've seen anything of that nature, you just take Adrian Zenz' sensationalism & anti-communism as unquestionable

                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                    4 years ago

                    and yes, US has racist extrajudicial Muslim torture camps LOL... I wonder wtf you're actually standing up for here?

                    • anthm17 [he/him]
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                      4 years ago

                      Obviously we just need more of that.

                      I wonder wtf you’re actually standing up for here?

                      Does it help to point that I'm

                      1. not a nationalist
                      2. not even an American, I just live here.

                      In other words I'm not standing up for anything except people I think deserve it.

                      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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                        4 years ago

                        sounds like you just need cope because USA is melting down and PRC is actually holding together and improving the lot of their people using ideologies & economic models that defy Western imperialism

                        you can try and harp on unsupported & biased Western propaganda on PRC. I will wait for actual evidence

      • volkvulture [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1160094.shtml this is from last year & seems to indicate things are improving from the perspective of government openness & goodwill

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47191952 this is also from last year and maybe passes the sniff-test for you here for “East vs. West media bias” maybe not idgaf

        https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/china-muslims-work-change-perceptions-after-knife-attacks this is VOA, so it’s definitely tripe, but even it still was giving somewhat of an even-handed & in-depth perspective on the issues at play here in the Obama era

        https://thediplomat.com/2014/10/chinese-salafism-and-the-saudi-connection/ this too gives nuance and offers wider connections to the general state of Islam globally. But it leaves out key connections between the “openness” reforms of Deng’s era & how these have always led to potentially dangerous Western & even extreme theocratic influences into the country