I sure fucking wonder why Ukrainians are using German for the name of their group. Could it have any connection to the historical proto-fascist German paramilitary, given that Ukraine has employed neo-nazi paramilitaries and integrated them into the state before? No, must be a coincidence
Kinda like how some rascal painted a bunch of iron crosses on the leopards that got sent over but you see the corner pieces are light Grey not regular Grey so the whole division must just be fans of a single obscure regiment from world War 1 that used that symbol for three weeks before it became the nazi parties official insignia.
Absolutely not lol, germans would know that anyone naming their unit 'Freikorps' is a nazi just like all the other stuff, shit if you see someone waving the Reichsfahne people know that you are a nazi.
Did you source this right out of your ass? Trust me, most Germans are not thinking of Napoleon. They're not thinking of the Third Reich either, because the Freikorps were integrated into the Reichswehr in 1920 already and the name wasn't used after that. If they remember this term from school or media at all, then almost certainly in the context of the Freikorps squashing socialist uprisings under direction of the Ebert government in 1918/19. They might also remember them murdering Luxemburg, Liebknecht and others, and in general being far-right proto-fascists.
As a German, i'm mostly thinking of revanchist right wingers murdering leftists during the Weimar Republic when i hear Freikorps, it's where the term shows up most in our history lessons.
the Freikorps put down the Sparticist revolt by the communist wing of the SDP. they later became the base for the brownshirts but that's not where the term was used.
Ask a german about Freikorps and they most likely will think of Napoleon, not the third reich.
I'd wager a good bet 70% of Germans wouldn't even know that word, it's a lesser detail in German history totally irrelevant to your average German. Nobody cares about Napoleon or Weimar.
No, it’s not just that, it’s an actual historical group which was used to crush communism in Germany and pave the way for the Nazis (many of them later became the actual Nazi SA themselves) glad I could clear that up for you! Surprised you never heard of them before!
Not trying to be contrairian; I'm hoping someone can enlighten me since I don't seem to understand the significance of this.
My understanding of freikorps is that it's a class of soldier, not necessarily tied to any period or event. The term doesn't refer to any one historical group, but rather many different groups across many different historical periods who fought alongside regular armies. Sure it is true that there were freikorps groups that supported the rise of Hitler, etc., but there were also freikorps groups that opposed it (see the francs-tireurs)
things like this really make me wonder what non-leftists learn about history. I had someone telling me that they didn't know which French Revolution I was talking about when I said The French Revolution and I think they might have been serious.
I don't know what my polital goal is here, but I don't support Ukraine if that's what you're suggesting. I thought maybe someone would explain why freikorps is necessarily connected with Nazism (especially if we are concerned about the "origin of things" as you say). Unfortunately nobody has really been that helpful.
I guess if everyone just associates freicorps with nazis then that's what it is. It therefore makes it a safe bet that whoever is using it is doing the same. I ended up looking into this group in particular and yeah they are Nazis so checks out.
Sorry for being a dick and assuming you are on the liberal train of “The guys with the black sun tattoo and an Iron Cross tattoo said he wasn’t a Nazi, I’m not going to consider that he may Be lying because he is fighting a war I’m in favor of waging. “
A lot of nazis don't want to or legally can't go completely mask-off, but still need the most obvious dogwhistle possible. This is why you'll see German nazis today using the legal Reichsflagge instead of the illegal swastika flag, and that's why a Ukrainian nazi who gets told "pls don't call your unit Panzerdivision Dirlewanger, it's bad press, it's too on the nose" walks it back until he arrives at Freikorps. It still has an aesthetic relatable to Wehraboos, but you can go "noooo, did you know there were Freikorps working with social democrats?"
specifically, the freikorps were organized by the SDP to crush the Sparticist revolt by the communist wing of the SDP. it's where the common leftist slogan
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
comes from (translation: who betrayed us? social democrats!) and it's why social democrats aren't considered part of the anticapitalist left. the freikorps later became the base for the brownshirts, which is what people mean by "proto-fascist". had the SDP not betrayed their comrades, it's extremely likely that the Nazi party would never have grown to the size it did. but the reformists screwed the pooch as it were.
Rosa Luxembourg's death at the hands of the Freikorps is one of the biggest what-if moments in history. a unified, socialist Germany joining with the Russian Soviets would have reshaped the world as we know it.
Why use a German term? Why use a German term that is most infamous for its connection to proto-Nazis? Why not just be "Volunteer Corps" in Ukrainian?
You can probably guess why if you ask any of these fuckers what they think of Bandera.
Analogy:
The term Sturmabteilung predates the founding of the Nazi Party in 1919. Originally it was applied to the specialized assault troops of Imperial Germany in World War I who used infiltration tactics based on being organized into small squads of a few soldiers each. The first official German stormtrooper unit was authorized on March 2, 1915 on the Western Front.
"idk guys, I don't see a connection to the Nazis for this Ukrainian battalion just because it's called Sturmabteilung"
This is very unintentionally an indictment of whatever education system you come from... But I'll give you a straight answer.
The freikorps were organised to eliminate communist rebellion. Their roots are anti-communism. The roots of fascism are anti-communism. The only shared trait that is true in all forms of fascism is that it is a violent reaction to communism. Everywhere in the world that you look, Spanish fascism, Italian fascism, German fascism, Chilean fascism, etc etc etc - All forms of fascism are different, but the one shared trait they all hold is that they become funded and grow as a violent opposition to communism. Fascism becomes funded and endorsed by the capitalists when they need to destroy a communist threat to capitalism. This is evidenced even more by the fact that fascism never becomes anything unique when it wins, it isn't special or different to regular capitalism, when it wins and destroys the left like it did in Spain or Chile it just slowly turned itself back into liberalism, neither were overthrown. Fascism in those places simply no longer had a reason to exist after it had defeated the threats to capitalism. Fascism is the capitalist state turning to ultra-violence in order to eliminate any anti-capitalist threat that exists to it, in most cases this is communists.
There is a reason that the poem goes "First they came for the communists", there is a reason we are their first and greatest priority.
With this understanding you should now realise that the freikorps were absolutely a precursor to the nazis.
Kind of like how everytime somebody asks for a translation it starts with a disclaimer that screaming "die f-slurs" isn't seen as homophobic in Ukraine.
Freikorps is just a german word for people fighting without monetary compensation. Frei = free and Korps = corps.
I sure fucking wonder why Ukrainians are using German for the name of their group. Could it have any connection to the historical proto-fascist German paramilitary, given that Ukraine has employed neo-nazi paramilitaries and integrated them into the state before? No, must be a coincidence
Kinda like how some rascal painted a bunch of iron crosses on the leopards that got sent over but you see the corner pieces are light Grey not regular Grey so the whole division must just be fans of a single obscure regiment from world War 1 that used that symbol for three weeks before it became the nazi parties official insignia.
Schutzstaffel is just a german word for a protection squadron
"Sieg Heil" is just the German word for "hail victory".
No it's the German version of Slava Ukraini.
Which was never used pre third reich and therefore has a huge historical weight.
Ask a german about Freikorps and they most likely will think of Napoleon, not the third reich.
As a German, when I see any foreigner using German in a military context, I assume they're a Wehraboo and by extension at least fascist-adjacent
Absolutely not lol, germans would know that anyone naming their unit 'Freikorps' is a nazi just like all the other stuff, shit if you see someone waving the Reichsfahne people know that you are a nazi.
Did you source this right out of your ass? Trust me, most Germans are not thinking of Napoleon. They're not thinking of the Third Reich either, because the Freikorps were integrated into the Reichswehr in 1920 already and the name wasn't used after that. If they remember this term from school or media at all, then almost certainly in the context of the Freikorps squashing socialist uprisings under direction of the Ebert government in 1918/19. They might also remember them murdering Luxemburg, Liebknecht and others, and in general being far-right proto-fascists.
As a German, i'm mostly thinking of revanchist right wingers murdering leftists during the Weimar Republic when i hear Freikorps, it's where the term shows up most in our history lessons.
the Freikorps put down the Sparticist revolt by the communist wing of the SDP. they later became the base for the brownshirts but that's not where the term was used.
I'd wager a good bet 70% of Germans wouldn't even know that word, it's a lesser detail in German history totally irrelevant to your average German. Nobody cares about Napoleon or Weimar.
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No, it’s not just that, it’s an actual historical group which was used to crush communism in Germany and pave the way for the Nazis (many of them later became the actual Nazi SA themselves) glad I could clear that up for you! Surprised you never heard of them before!
Not trying to be contrairian; I'm hoping someone can enlighten me since I don't seem to understand the significance of this.
My understanding of freikorps is that it's a class of soldier, not necessarily tied to any period or event. The term doesn't refer to any one historical group, but rather many different groups across many different historical periods who fought alongside regular armies. Sure it is true that there were freikorps groups that supported the rise of Hitler, etc., but there were also freikorps groups that opposed it (see the francs-tireurs)
Is this a bit?
things like this really make me wonder what non-leftists learn about history. I had someone telling me that they didn't know which French Revolution I was talking about when I said The French Revolution and I think they might have been serious.
they must mean the july revolution. the first one was too obscure.
No.
It’s someone who has the weird liberal trait of not considering origins of things if it aligns with their current political goals.
Worst case it’s on the same tier as ““national SOCIALIST” =“a socialist who likes their nation””
I don't know what my polital goal is here, but I don't support Ukraine if that's what you're suggesting. I thought maybe someone would explain why freikorps is necessarily connected with Nazism (especially if we are concerned about the "origin of things" as you say). Unfortunately nobody has really been that helpful.
I guess if everyone just associates freicorps with nazis then that's what it is. It therefore makes it a safe bet that whoever is using it is doing the same. I ended up looking into this group in particular and yeah they are Nazis so checks out.
Sorry for being a dick and assuming you are on the liberal train of “The guys with the black sun tattoo and an Iron Cross tattoo said he wasn’t a Nazi, I’m not going to consider that he may Be lying because he is fighting a war I’m in favor of waging. “
A lot of nazis don't want to or legally can't go completely mask-off, but still need the most obvious dogwhistle possible. This is why you'll see German nazis today using the legal Reichsflagge instead of the illegal swastika flag, and that's why a Ukrainian nazi who gets told "pls don't call your unit Panzerdivision Dirlewanger, it's bad press, it's too on the nose" walks it back until he arrives at Freikorps. It still has an aesthetic relatable to Wehraboos, but you can go "noooo, did you know there were Freikorps working with social democrats?"
specifically, the freikorps were organized by the SDP to crush the Sparticist revolt by the communist wing of the SDP. it's where the common leftist slogan
comes from (translation: who betrayed us? social democrats!) and it's why social democrats aren't considered part of the anticapitalist left. the freikorps later became the base for the brownshirts, which is what people mean by "proto-fascist". had the SDP not betrayed their comrades, it's extremely likely that the Nazi party would never have grown to the size it did. but the reformists screwed the pooch as it were.
Rosa Luxembourg's death at the hands of the Freikorps is one of the biggest what-if moments in history. a unified, socialist Germany joining with the Russian Soviets would have reshaped the world as we know it.
Which one do you think these Ukranians named themselves after? Be honest
this is right up there with "bro the wolfsangel is just a pagan slavic symbol bro, so is the sonnerad bro! bro!"
That white circle thingy behind the not-swastika cannot be a black sun, since it's white
Why use a German term? Why use a German term that is most infamous for its connection to proto-Nazis? Why not just be "Volunteer Corps" in Ukrainian?
You can probably guess why if you ask any of these fuckers what they think of Bandera.
Analogy:
"idk guys, I don't see a connection to the Nazis for this Ukrainian battalion just because it's called Sturmabteilung"
This is very unintentionally an indictment of whatever education system you come from... But I'll give you a straight answer.
The freikorps were organised to eliminate communist rebellion. Their roots are anti-communism. The roots of fascism are anti-communism. The only shared trait that is true in all forms of fascism is that it is a violent reaction to communism. Everywhere in the world that you look, Spanish fascism, Italian fascism, German fascism, Chilean fascism, etc etc etc - All forms of fascism are different, but the one shared trait they all hold is that they become funded and grow as a violent opposition to communism. Fascism becomes funded and endorsed by the capitalists when they need to destroy a communist threat to capitalism. This is evidenced even more by the fact that fascism never becomes anything unique when it wins, it isn't special or different to regular capitalism, when it wins and destroys the left like it did in Spain or Chile it just slowly turned itself back into liberalism, neither were overthrown. Fascism in those places simply no longer had a reason to exist after it had defeated the threats to capitalism. Fascism is the capitalist state turning to ultra-violence in order to eliminate any anti-capitalist threat that exists to it, in most cases this is communists.
There is a reason that the poem goes "First they came for the communists", there is a reason we are their first and greatest priority.
With this understanding you should now realise that the freikorps were absolutely a precursor to the nazis.
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yeah? is it usual for ukrainians to use german words with specific history for no reason in particular?
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they must be for the amount of swastikas all over everything they have
Kind of like how everytime somebody asks for a translation it starts with a disclaimer that screaming "die f-slurs" isn't seen as homophobic in Ukraine.
Ein Kostenlos Korps mit jedem Aufstand!
You managed to be a needlessly obnoxious pedant AND completely miss the point.
I'm very sure that a modern military unit in a fascist flooded country is using it in reference to the fucking Napoleonic French.
Just go back to reddit already.