Reddit is mad at me
tbf I think it is wrong to entirely remove agency from the killers themselves. It's not like even 1% of Muslims see a picture of Mohammed like that and are instantly put into a murderous frenzy, you have to be a specific level of zealous, unempathetic, and sectarian to react with violence to it. That isn't to say "the French government has done nothing wrong", but it is to say Salafi-Jihadism is an original, unique approach of philosophy and ideology that exists in its own right and not solely as a response to western governments, and the actors adhering to it are consciously doing so not some automatons reacting to stimuli like a cell or something.
Right but surely the more effective response is anti-jihadist programs and outreach.
You know what's just about useless when it comes to discussing the concept of stochastic terrorism?
Moralizing individuality.
No fucking shit murderers are bad. I didn't see this tact when it came to denouncing the cheeto for the violence he inspired. No one had a problem focusing on the incitement until imperialism by way of Islamophobia entered the equation.
Apparently the teacher offered Muslim students the chance to excuse themselves so they wouldn’t have to see the images.
That wasn’t good enough? Fuck these people. Really wish there was some way to identify them.
Sorry dawg but this seems like a pretty shit take, like “we made sure there weren’t any black people around before we told racist jokes” type shit.
I don’t give two shits about what they object to, except I’d love to know what form of execution they most object to. That would be good to know.
Being a penis isn’t a reason to kill someone. Shouldn’t need to be said.
Pissed off is one thing. Any parent would be pissed off at a teacher showing hateful imagery to their kids classmates.
But murderous? That’s fucked up.
Then again people snap.
And the French are being frighteningly awful in their response.
probably the best way of breaking out of this vicious cycle is to prevent the media from reporting on terrorist attacks as the goal of these attacks was always attention
Any parent would be pissed off at a teacher showing hateful imagery to their kids classmates.
Exactly, and that's what happened with the parents in this case - they were mad and complained publicly, just like any regular annoying parent - that's all they did. But that drew enough attention of some misfit fundie immigrant who saw it as the last straw to feeling ostracized by French society.
The misfit fundie is the bigger asshole. But misfit fundies exist. The long-term solution is resolving issues in places like Chechnya so that people don't become refugees, overthrowing the Saudis so they stop spreading Wahhabism, ending anti-Muslim discrimination in France, creating better economic and social conditions for all, etc. In the mean time - don't go out of your way to antagonize the misfit fundies. Quit looking for a fight.
This isn't the KKK lynching a Black guy. This isn't an ISIS wannabe shooting up a synagogue. This is the French waving torches in front of a powder keg and then complaining they got burnt.
Sorry I should calm down.
But come on we can condemn the cartoons and still recognize a guy got brutally murdered over absolute bullshit and that’s not okay.
The French response is also not okay. It’s a handful of assholes, not a religious group. They are encouraging violence reprisals against Muslims. That’s a horrifying prospect.
Yeah. In short:
Religion? Little bit cringe tbh, but you do you.
Religion with a rule that your god doesn’t get drawn? Eh, whatever. There’s weirder rituals and rules out there.
Murdering people over aforementioned rule? Yikes.
Publicly broadcasting drawings? Yeah well, that’s not gonna help anything, now is it.
The smart thing for the state to do would be to work with Muslim leaders to better francify the religion. Get them to publicly denounce the killing, and give them plenty of airtime to do so. Call for sensitivity around religion even so. Work to identify particularly radical imams etc and replace them with more moderate ones. Don’t publicly provoke everyone in that religion.
And work to normalize Islam among the French.
Let’s not pretend the marginalized group is going to control their own inclusion.
Yeah, that’s fair. Programmes to better integrate would be a good call. Job programmes, cultural exchanges, etc. Even promoting intermarriage. Anything that breaks down those social barriers.
I approve of everything you're saying, except "radical imams" is not really the problem. The typical profile of a Salafist terrorist (read the work of terrorist anthropologist Scott Atran) is a non-observant young man with a criminal record (or a family member in a terrorist group) who suddenly finds religion. A bunch of previous terrorists were recently kicked out of mosques, because they would start arguing with the imams or just generally say extremist things that made them unwelcome to the regular congregants. The desire to do terrorism comes form humiliation in personal life that's reinterpreted as part of the global pattern of Muslim humiliation, driven by watching jihadi videos or just hearing reports of anti-Muslim war crimes.
So there are jihadi preachers that spread the ideology, but they're not going to be in some public Paris mosque. They'll be uploading content from wherever, and it'll be memes and dumb shit shared by young people, not like, "le book says kill infidel."
what inspires the most lethal terrorists in the world today is not so much the Koran or religious teachings as a thrilling cause and call to action that promises glory and esteem in the eyes of friends, and through friends, eternal respect and remembrance in the wider world that they will never live to enjoy.... Jihad is an egalitarian, equal-opportunity employer: ...fraternal, fast-breaking, thrilling, glorious, and cool. — Scott Atran
Gotcha so it’s mostly online incel/chan style radicalisation, but with an Islamic veneer instead of a Christian one?
Also in person. But not through formal religious structures. People who're routinely religious are boring traditional people, not fiery revolutionaries.
I mean when I see people who are most likely white westerners calling for an execution of a Muslim man in a way that is disrespectful to his beliefs I am pretty sure that sentiment is coming from a reactionary place in the mind. It's like the troops that said they dipped their ammo in pigs blood in Iraq.
Reading your other posts, you don't really give me any other indications that you're a racist or reactionary, but you should think about why your brain reacted that way to this particular situation.
A bit off topic but the pig blood thing is so stupid, the Quran literally says that if you forced to eat pork then it's not a sin. Oh wait I'm acting surprised that chuds know nothing about the Quran.
this is a bad post. you should stop being islamophobic and delete it. the teacher was a chud
People defending rising islamophobia in France are saying the same exact things as Americans trying to justify their islamophobia after 9/11.
Edit since the wave of trolls think I love murder. It is possible to think that murder is bad and islamophobia is bad. It really shouldn't be that hard to understand you dumb fucks.
Most people really believe they should be able to shit on organized religion anytime they want here
Obviously I have no proof, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some gladio-type shit going on behind the scenes as well. You only need a few nudges to start racial conflict when both sides are pissed at each other
noooo when have western powers financially supported extremist movements abroad to further their own agenda, this has never happened ever, did i hear anyone say saudi arabia exports extremist ideology much like the US itself does? no? must be my ears then.
I've been thinking that this is some GLADIO-type shit for a while now. Basically ever sense the WTYP episode on the Ustica Massacre.
The ops are getting obvious - might have some insane ones under Biden
bombing syria as well
also, the french government is doing exactly what the terrorists want, indeed
Macron projecting an image of the Reichstag fire onto a building and waggling his eyebrows furiously.
Macron is a fascist shitbag who’s trying his best to turn a pogrom in a purge of political enemies.
I would say this is legit just terrorism. They just went after random churchgoers and it wasn't in one of the cities doing the Islamaphobia. Had they killed Macron himself....
Regardless, the bigger issue is we've seen almost a 1 to 1 matchup of Franco-Fascist and Jihadist attacks in the last week and guess which one is getting the most attention?
Well yeah it's how it works, if anyone can be killed anytime anywhere, you antagonize everyone, and you got yourself an unstable situation for everyone to feed upon.
