Whiny nerds who haven't read a new book in over two decades shed tears over the fact their boring-ass game sucks and is getting swirlied in the toilet bowl by actual cool games
im hesitant to call Starfield actually "cool" yet. BG3 is rad though.
im hesitant to call Starfield actually "cool" yet.
I've been tearing into it a lot, but it is genuinely the best thing Bethesda's put out in the past 20 years. It's still tepid Bethesda mush but the writing quality has varied wildly. The quest I posted about yesterday was just awful, but I did a questline today that entailed hunting down every member of a fascist militia and ultimately led to being able to just summarily execute a CEO for his crimes (but mostly for resisting arrest, because he was very dumb too).
No, it's some weird revanchist stabbed-in-the-back lunatics from the FC whose entire plan was to get the warrior's death they were denied by the war ending (the dumbest part being their side won and their primary grievance is that they were arrested when they tried to keep fighting after the war ended). You hunt them and their new devotees down in the FC Ranger questline which is a nonsensically written organization that's trying to be a mashup of Texas Rangers and ME Specters but at the same time is a toothless federal agency with less than a dozen members who are operating on behalf of the weak federal government of a federation of ancap despotries that simultaneously grants them no legal powers but also lets them just run around doing whatever with no oversight to the point that you can literally just up and kill one of the dictators of the FC at the end of it and literally no one cares.
[Worldbuilding spoilers ahead]
Ahhh a different fascist militia that wouldn't end the war then! Makes sense.
Both sides suck ass and this universe is absolutely missing a socialist faction pursuing a Star Trek-like future. If I end up starting a mod project for the game one of my ideas on the backburner is a socialist faction who are essentially neo-bolsheviks that cite Star Trek in-game as their inspiration for the future they're fighting to build.
I also think a project is needed to add much-needed depth to the liberal cities. The Well in New Atlantis is getting cited by libs as the "punk" part and the "dark underbelly" but it lacks punch. It's just the old town, no longer maintained. There's no real economic criticism in it as far as I can see and it's only bad because it's old. Additions like beggars, homeless and desperate peddlers selling trinkets and tourist guff spilling out into the upper level and train station entrances will make an absolutely massive improvement. Throw in some radiants for pickpockets, beggar actions, UC police beating someone to death (give them guns with no ammunition and they should beat the target to death), among other things and you'll have an environment that gives the player a much stronger representation of the underbelly that should exist more clearly in these places. Might also be an opportunity to tell some real poverty stories, include stories about kids more for some impact, particularly as kids in Bethesda games are almost non-existent and when they do exist they're always just incredibly annoying.
Anyway that's more or less my notes-taking so far for mod improvements to parts of the game that annoy me. The only other major settlement I've visited so far is Mars and that's got some relatively ok critique going on because of the fracking explosions. But I haven't seen it really tell any stories about what the impact of those explosions would be on the people though. Could be an avenue to go down to give it more depth and criticise its society better.
Oh and I hated the quest on Mars where I had to get an admin-assistant job. Why did they send me in my own spaceship up to the spacestation to apply for a job on the planet? It's so ridiculous. Someone getting an admin-assistant job would not have enough money to own their own starship. There should be a shuttle that the poor people pay to use and get from A to B when needed.
Someone getting an admin-assistant job would not have enough money to own their own starship. There should be a shuttle that the poor people pay to use and get from A to B when needed.
Something about the future being as extremely car brained as present day North America is kinda unintentionally funny though.
It's fucking weird. The idea of being a space pilot is literally the fantasy the game sells. But that's meaningless if everyone in the galaxy with even an admin job has a spaceship like they're cars. Why would people work as gunner/engineer on someone else's spaceship if they have enough money to own their own? Why are all these people working with/for the player for wages?
It's absolutely ridiculous. You need to ground space travel in people who dream of going to the stars but are stuck due to it being out of their means vs the people who do have the means. And you need to give the player many different possible backstories for how they attained these means. Either luck. Or piracy. Or they're a super engineer who built one. Or they're actually rich. Etc etc. You've got to give the player roleplay options to properly fill this in.
All of these things should be relatively easy to fix though, since the only places you have to change to fix these are the major cities. You can probably fix this with 10-15 new NPCs per city with dialog, and then a bunch of NPCs with no dialog other than a 1 line response.
Yeah I think it's also a big problem that the money system is so compressed that it's hard to know how much anything is worth. Like if an apple or a meal is around 100 credits, then the 10k that small ship would cost is basically walking around money for most people. A penthouse apartment on Neon is 25k is, so is property just really cheap there or is food expensive?
Ultimately gameplay balance and all that, but it seems like very strange world building to me.
The prices they've chosen are really just about fantasy fulfilment for the player, they went with making everything cheap and easily attainable, since most of it is fairly meaningless. You fly around in a flying house with every amenity you need for one, you don't need properties.
Modding has a lot of potential here though. Rebuilding the economy and pricing combined with a good survival mod that takes advantage of the game having native temperature and climate features... Add fuel necessity and costs to the game too. You can really make working and doing missions to earn a living a necessity, and you will be able to get stranded on planets where you starve/freeze and die. A significant amount of depth will come from deepening this. The temperature feature in particular feels like they added it specifically for modders since it's effect is negligible in the base game.
I also think that we need a "cities don't allow space suits" feature so players have to lose their armour in cities and become more vulnerable. Make decisions more meaningful.
Generally I feel like the gameplay should be balanced around Fromsoft's approach to combat as well. Death should be quick for players that make mistakes but combat highly rewarding when you play it well and smartly. The powers in particular seem like they can be VERY powerful and will remain strong even when you raise damage significantly.
There's a lot to work with here. I won't pretend I'm not a little excited about modding, I really do think it's the best game this studio has released since Oblivion even with all my criticisms of the lib writing. They REALLY need to put something into solving performance issues though, because when you add script heavy stuff into a game that already chugs it will literally break.
The prices they've chosen are really just about fantasy fulfilment for the player, they went with making everything cheap and easily attainable, since most of it is fairly meaningless. You fly around in a flying house with every amenity you need for one, you don't need properties.
Wish fulfillment used to be saving the world or getting the girl. Now it's having a place to live that doesn't put you into financial crisis.
Rebuilding the economy
I can't tell you how many times I've imagined implementing economic simulations in Skyrim just because the vapidness of the base game bugs me. If you're going to insist on heavily involving capitalism in your medieval fantasy, at least have it be capitalism.
Being able to get loans that have interest and potentially put you in serious debt that gets people chasing you down would be sick (I'm either game, but Starfield in particular)
I find there's a fine line with this. We could easily make the games not-fun by accurately balancing them into being capitalist. You can mod Skyrim to the point that a single mistake results in you becoming a drug addled destitute beggar but that's only fun for some RP purposes and is NOT fun for basic gameplay overall after you've experienced its content once.
A substantial difference in Skyrim is that you're still the dovakiin or however they spell it. There is plenty of reason for you to be able to escape destitution pretty easily, and my point wasn't that it would be some sort of political statement but simply a more interesting sandbox.
Why would people work as gunner/engineer on someone else's spaceship if they have enough money to own their own?
For a wage? Like, idk, they still need income no matter how cheap starships are
It's absolutely ridiculous. You need to ground space travel in people who dream of going to the stars but are stuck due to it being out of their means vs the people who do have the means. And you need to give the player many different possible backstories for how they attained these means. Either luck. Or piracy. Or they're a super engineer who built one. Or they're actually rich. Etc etc. You've got to give the player roleplay options to properly fill this in.
Yeah, the game starts you off as a laborer working on a job site that can't even afford have a ship permanently on station, then you're just given a decent starter ship that's worth more than most other small ships and that's it you're set until you can get a better one or make meaningful upgrades to it. The Frontier really should have been a non-modifiable, non-sellable ship that's just there to paper over the issue of you needing a ship until you can buy, find, or steal one for yourself.
The powers in particular seem like they can be VERY powerful and will remain strong even when you raise damage significantly.
Yeah, it feels like ME1 biotics all over where they're just free hard CC options that can lock down entire rooms as every enemy is stuck ragdolling around for 30 seconds each. They really need to just get shunted to zero-g movement with maybe some "disoriented" debuff instead of ragdolling as they drift around. Enemies can literally maneuver just fine in zero-g and it even makes sense that a bunch of people used to fighting onboard ships that can lose or regain gravity at any moment wouldn't just go limp if gravity suddenly got a bit weird.
The Frontier really should have been a non-modifiable, non-sellable ship that's just there to paper over the issue of you needing a ship until you can buy, find, or steal one for yourself.
It should have been trash too, literally falling apart, practically space junk. But they made Constellation into this fantasy of a secret society of explorers that flies through the unknown killing literally everything on every single planet they visit with near limitless resources from their benevolent CEO billionaire with bottomless pockets because he's just in it for the "passion" of exploring space (I'm hopeful that this turns out to not be true later on, but I have low expectations).
The ship they give the player to start out with is too good. And fundamentally starts the game off on the wrong foot.
Having the player need to beg/borrow/steal to get their foothold in space would fundamentally put the player in a headspace of feeling grateful for what they have. Alternate start mods can solve this, and then modifications to ship prices and so on can tie it all together.
I think part of the problem here is that Bethesda are scared of making their game too roleplay heavy. They have always tried to avoid any limitation on freedom of the player, no matter the skill of the player. This makes the game fun for anyone but comes at a considerable expense to storytelling.
One of the main problems is that a spaceship is the price of just fifty guns. But this is because looting is boring and they don't want to force the player to do too much of it just to survive.
Another problem is probably the inventory system itself, allowing the player to carry too much. I think if you have crew on a ship you should be able to order your crew to loot a vessel/spacestation/facility for you(after clearing it of enemies). This would eliminate the need to painstakingly search a facility from top to bottom. You would do "crew action>loot location" and then some time would pass and you'd get a list of all objects in the location and the option to load them onto your ship cargo or not. With this kind of feature you can then limit what the player can carry more significantly (2-3 guns, some medical equipment, ammunition). The general point here being that if you're the captain of a starship with a crew you should be able to use that crew, and this ties into fixing problems with the pricing. If you increase the pricing of everything then you also need to increase the loot you get and make doing that looting enjoyable in some way. Obviously a space encounter needs to somehow give the player enough loot to pay for that encounter too and turn a profit on top otherwise you're just encouraging the player to avoid it all.
Money sinks need finding to make up for this. Fuel probably being the biggest one. Infinite generated local missions on settled planets need to be worth enough to get the player enough fuel to get into space. And they need to be fun too. That or thievery in some way. Robbing Galbank or some corporation ought to be a viable alternative for a quick buck but come with the negative effect of them sending people to kill you later.
I can seriously think of a lot with regards to overhauling this. On the same scale as Requiem for Skyrim.
their benevolent CEO billionaire with bottomless pockets because he's just in it for the "passion" of exploring space (I'm hopeful that this turns out to not be true later on, but I have low expectations).
The best reading of it is that he's a bored and lonely old man who thinks space is neat and throws some pocket change at a little clubhouse full of people who'll pretend to be his friends where he can hang out instead of working, and he only really gets invested once the weird shit starts happening. He's still too friendly and whitewashed for the character to really land though.
I think if you have crew on a ship you should be able to order your crew to loot a vessel/spacestation/facility for you(after clearing it of enemies). This would eliminate the need to painstakingly search a facility from top to bottom. You would do "crew action>loot location" and then some time would pass and you'd get a list of all objects in the location and the option to load them onto your ship cargo or not. With this kind of feature you can then limit what the player can carry more significantly (2-3 guns, some medical equipment, ammunition).
Exactly. Even just some option at the end where you do a quick time skip like waiting or sleeping and it gives you a menu with all the stuff that's not literal trash, to then dump straight into the cargo hold. Hell, take it a step further and let all the trash guns and armor get turned into irrecoverable bulk packages just to compress it all and avoid the serious slowdown that having tons of junk in your inventory/cargo causes, so instead of dozens of various modded maelstroms you just have "crate of ten shit guns" that's just vendor trash from that point on.
FO76 eventually added bulk area looting for dead enemies, so the same general principle shouldn't be too hard.
There are some downsides to this looting concept. One being that finding an interesting book or audiolog that sends you on a quest somewhere will lose some context. Instead of finding it on the body of someone with environmental storytelling because you searched the place yourself it would be something your crew comes to you with and "in addition to the usual loot, we found this which is particularly interesting on a dead victim of the Spacers".
There's less incentive to thoroughly comb every nook and cranny if you can just have your crew do it. Hmmmmmmmmm. Perhaps an alternative to this is to have your companions do the search as you go along. Why not have them loot? Pick up stuff over x value. Interesting items/weapons. Have voicelines remarking on the stuff they pick up. Shout "we found something interesting over here" for important finds. Have the player and the crew loot together as part of the experience. Maybe don't allow this to happen until AFTER a player has cleared a dungeon, encouraging the player to focus on clearing first before looting because then they get the help of crew members. And you don't get that jarring experience of looting mid combat this way.
This can also allow you to keep the limitation of 1 companion for the clearance phase then having the whole crew come in to do the looting phase. Although I suspect the majority of people out there mod in the ability for multiple companions. I feel pretty strongly that 3-4 players in the player's group would make much more interesting gameplay because you can have companions talk to each other BG3 style.
One being that finding an interesting book or audiolog that sends you on a quest somewhere will lose some context.
Unfortunately I haven't seen anything like that so far in Starfield, not the way FO4 would do it. There's been like one message that started a quest and it's a common drop from spacer enemies. Locations are painfully generic and I've already looted the same abandoned facilities multiple times on different planets.
Unfortunately I haven't seen anything like that so far in Starfield
I have. There was a drop in a random facility I found while out exploring. Basically a message to the man's family as he knew he was going to die, thanking his kids, apologising to his wife for a few things, telling them how much he loved them, real tear jerking. Delivering it was.... Awkward.
I assume that things like this are peppered around. Just gonna take a while to find them and for the memorable ones to enter community consciousness.
Locations are painfully generic and I've already looted the same abandoned facilities multiple times on different planets.
Ew. That's pretty concerning.
In the future nothing will be handled by e-mail.
All the quests in futurey games where you have to go to some place in person instead of just calling someone on your phone or sending an e-mail are... upsetting.
FFXIV had magitek devices that allowed instant communication over vast distances and Minfilia still insisted that you "pray return to the Waking Sands (headquarters)" to tell you what she could have told you with that device. Again and again and again. :TataruWhy:
We'll figure out how to toggle the "essential" flag and then their days will end.
Yeah that's a good one. The crimson fleet stuff rules too. I want to make a mod that adds more communism flavor to the crimson fleet (or takes out all the individualist bs from freestar collective). Pirates are cool but building communism in space capitalism is way cooler
If you tell me I have to play either Harry Potter games or No man skies but Bethesda, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.
BG3 is legitimately one of the best games I've ever played. They have to iron out the bugs still, frankly, but it was a pure blast to play through the game. One of the most impressive games I think I've ever seen, narratively, because of the sheer amount of choices with actual consequence there are in the game.
I'm waiting on the mods. That's what makes most Bethesda games good, lol.
It gets much better, but its a really shit first 15-20 levels. The game wants you to play it in a specific way and my god it's going to hurt you with boredom until you do.
isn't it just like a once-and-done single player game? of course other newer games are gonna overtake it
By, like, C-list devs iirc. Not exactly AAA title material, even with the IP.
How you gonna diss the Hannah Montana: Spotlight World Tour devs that way?
Not even c-list, that's too generous. They were a half-step above shovelware devs. Everything they ever released was kids movie tie-in garbage.
If I wanted to play a good shitty wizard game I'd re-install Magicka
Dunka dunka! Was Magicka 2 any good? I had a lot of stupid fun with the first one.
I played through it once and never felt the itch to do it again. It's not bad exactly, but it feels like they put too much thought into balance after making Wizard Wars so it doesn't have the same level of unbridled chaos and danger that made the first one so much fun. Also I think the camera is zoomed in closer or something because everything felt kind of smaller-scale.
Remember all the streamers throwing a fit about how they had to play it even if it meant shoveling more money at a transphobe because it was the biggest game of the year (in February lol)
"Biggest game of the year" just means whatever game got the most advertising
Pizza Tower is still the best game to come out this year, fight me nerds.
EDIT: So TIL that Pizza Towers dev is a shithead (see replies below) so pirate that shit
He put a Native American stereotype in the game because Nintendo removed one from Mr. Game & Watch in Smash Bros and has a history of using slurs. CW: racism and homophobia https://batz.tumblr.com/post/710753810688180224/i-dont-pay-attention-to-pizza-tower-stuff-what
Oh that fucking SUCKS, god damn it. Why can't one thing I like not be connected to some kind of bigoted shit
You might like Caves of Qud, and that dev is a decent person as far as I can tell (and it has been tested somewhat)
I might need to make an antistreamer aktion emoji
Not interested in Starfield, but 2023 has games like Pizza Tower, Pikmin 4 and Baldurs Gate 3. Why would I ever play Hogfarts Legacy of Piss?
BG3 is unmatchable, not only for hogwarts legacy but for every other game.
Starfield on the other end.. is the same oblivion stuff but in 2023 and without 2023 capabilities
from what i head the systems are worse than a bunch of their own previous work let alone contemporary products. maybe someday i'll play more than 10 minutes and find out for myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I was a fan of both DOS 1 and 2 and I’m finding the systems in BG3 much more fun. I like the action economy of 5e much more than the pips of their earlier games.
Pretty much. Bet if they re-released oblivion, prior to BG3, it'd still roflstomp horkboris legacy
and without 2023 capabilities
They've gotta rewrite the engine from the ground up if they want to bring it up to modern standards. There are fundamental problems with it at its core that can't be resolved without a rewrite that addresses limiting decisions that were made with its overall design a very very long time ago.
Gamebryo really needs to be thrown in the trash. It's just absurd that they're still using it. They don't even have to, can't they use the Idtech engines?
Idtech engines
I suspect that ID lost one of their most important people when Steven Ash died, this man has consistently had a hand in projects that have turned into cult hits or very high quality games in some way and I don't think that's a coincidence, I think they were probably highly influential on every single team they were on. I would be very tentative about assuming ID's work maintains the current quality without him.
You are right, they should rewrite the engine, but they didn't and they preferred enforce the development on the re-re-re-re-re release of titles like skyrim for every possible platform on the plant.
Look at what Larian did instead.. Took 6 years, added beta access and listened to the players. BG3 is far from being bug-free or "perfect" but they released a game that give almost total freedom on how you can play it, and doesn't feel like you are on rails every time.
The problem is bethesda and others "AAA" software houses for years just did the lazy job and now that a software house showed what 6 years of real development should look like everyone is doing the Pikachu face and crying because "We don't want BG3 to set a new standard". The issue is us, the players, that keep buying shit for too much money.
The issue is us, the players, that keep buying shit for too much money.
Randian logic, absolute nonsense.
Entertainment serves as escapism under capitalism and is as much a requirement for people as food. "The problem is people keep buying bad food, not the companies that make unhealthy cheap shit."
As long as people are captured by a system of wage slavery they will be compelled to seek escapism from it for their own sanity. The companies shovelling out dogshit are taking advantage of that, it's not the fault of the buyers, it's the fault of the system. If you gave these companies to the employees making the art instead of shareholders and publishers you'd get work that is a passion instead. The problem is ultimately where power lies in the companies, with the ownership.
I'm waiting for the modding community to overhaul Starfield in 1 - 3 years before I'll even touch it.
BG3 is a blast and I can't get enough. It's the first game I've played that's felt like I'm a part of a fantasy novel. IMO it's because unlike a lot of other CRPG's it's really good about pacing out it's lore and not info dumping all over the player.
I'm waiting for the modding community to overhaul Starfield in 1 - 3 years before I'll even touch it.
I'll still hold some interest on the next TES game exactly because of this.
But for starfield based on the reviews I've seen the issues are pretty much fundamental to the game as designed, e.g exploration limitations doesn't seem like something that can be easily modded so I'm not holding any hopes that mods will fix this.
I remember around the time of the HP game release chuds were rallying around it to own the libs or whatever.
I'm glad that the HP game is going to be forgotten in favor of two games that let you choose pronouns, one of which lets you choose a penis or vulva.
Even before release, Hogwarts Legacy looked like an extremely by the numbers TrIpLe A game by some developers who'd never made anything good. It was totally carried by the license and being released at a quiet time for big bideo bames, no wonder even the biggest Rowling fart hufflepuffers don't care about it anymore
If it's any consolation to the HP libs, your game got an all-time concurrent player peak of 879,308 while BG3 only got 875,343. But also the games this year are stacked and Harry Potter sucks, so get owned.
Still on my first playthrough and I want to do several more eventually. 😭
Same! I'm barely out of the nautiloid wreckage, and already having a blast.
I finished my first playthrough, and now I don't know what to do with myself. I keep coming back to BG3 and playing the first 3 hours with a new character.
It's wild to get angry over pronouns in SF materials, in particular. If I'm reading some spacefarring material and there isn't at least one alien race or human being bucking a gender binary, I'll be dissapointed as hell.
Especially since aliens have little reason to follow human ideas of gender and sex
I asked myself the same thing. If you enjoy your slop, what do you care about what the other piggies eat?
Because you want to feel validated that your slop is especially good
I would simply not attach my personality into triple A by the numbers garbage made from the IP of Terf-Queen.
BG3 is boring as fuck but it doesn't excuse Hogwarts Legacy for being a bit too formulaic. Also Starfield is just a loading screen simulator
There are people who just equate anything turn based with boredom. I'm not one of them, but they exist.
I dont mind the loading screens. I just dont mind that there are a lot of them since they are like less than 5seconds each ? Of course I would prefer no loading screens at all but im also sure a seamless Starfield would be a much bigger and probably expensive game to make.
There are things that bother me about Starfield. The loading screens arent one of them.
I think it's more that the transitions are jarring. If they'd made jumps and inter planetary transitions first person cutscene loads like a lot of space games like freelancer, there'd be less complaining. And occasionally they are that and they decided not to make it the only way.
Anyway script extender is now out, so open cities and better transitions are likely a monthbor two away.
Elite dangerous doesn't even having loading screens for flying from surface to orbit to another star system. Like there are loading screens, but they're all hidden so it looks seamless. Ten year old game.
s
DAE turn based!!! in CURRENT-YEAR!!!!
