Liberals are not our allies and have historically proven ready and willing to jump to violent fascistic repression of any popular socialist movement. That includes the liberals who have appeared to be well meaning progressives. We can hope to educate and attract people away from liberalism, but any alliance is doomed from the start. Anarchists, Leninists, Maoists, any tendency of leftist should recognize this. Hell, opposition to liberals should unify them all at least temporarily!
they're not very willing to look past electoralism to any other kind of politics, so they're neither useful allies nor particularly relevant to any projects I care about?
I'd argue it's more unhealthy to dismiss criticisms of liberals, talk down to people in this thread, and say that people rightfully calling them out is "politics of resentment".
I don’t have particular issue with them, just no faith lol. Rather I think the DSA in its membership spectrum from straight up lib, to socdem (lib), to some genuine commited leftists, can do good things on a more localized level.
However, I don’t believe most anyone in the right wing of the DSA will have our (committed anticapitalist leftists) backs when shit hits the fan. When it comes down to supporting the vulnerable, and those who actually work to protect and advocate for them, against the violent forces of capitalist repression? I don’t see a lot of radlibs that gather under the very broad DSA umbrella sticking with professed convictions when they’re tested. So many of these are the people who prioritized tone policing and decried property damage during the George Floyd uprisings. I have little faith in them.
The DSA is certainly a far sight better than most any major party or bloc in American politics, but that’s a pretty pathetically low bar to clear. Mostly, I just don’t think of them at all tho lol
That's fair, I don't see a lot of that in my chapter, but it's majority Marxist, so the right wing has to be better behaved. I forget that national leadership includes a cop and my idea of what "right wing" means is deeply skewed.
Yeah. They think they can be capitalists, conservatives and libs at the same time like wtf
One should either want people to be liberated from capitalist hierarchies or conserve them, there's no both
Remember comrades, don't trust and repeat the capitalist redefining of words. North Americans might have a hard time learning out of the programming.
Using their apologia language just serves them and none sustain critical evaluation.
"Neoliberal" = pure capitalist conservatism. "Economic liberalism/free markets" same bullshit. All trying to maintain the status quo anti-liberal hierarchy.
Edit: sorry for hurting capitalist feelings that are in some of the comments
Liberalism is the ideology that justifies the continued existence of capitalism, and in that ideology there are social factions with tactical disagreements about how best to manage and justify capitalism, this usually manifests as a cultural divide among conservative liberals and social liberals, but both of them are subsumed by the current mass iteration of liberalism we call neoliberalism
Liberals are capitalists because they believe in the 'freedom' of markets. Liberalism does not refer to freedom from hierarchy, it refers to freedom from feudalism and feudal dues, specifically. The freedom of private property.
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism and encompasses all liberal tendencies - conservatives, social liberals, dem socs, libertarians etc. If you're defining it in a unique way you should let us know so we can understand what you mean
"Both parties are anti-lib" in truth means that they don't function the way that your fairy tales tell you they should, so you pretend they're not Liberal.
This person is pretty strange. They consider themselves some sort of anarchist i think, but really care about the word liberal and insist that everyone else in the world but them is using it wrong because...
Yeah, since liberals invented the capitalist hierarchy. But somehow using words correctly is "capitalist apologia language" and the definition they invented is the one true leftist way of speaking
This is the same kind of politics of resentment that splits anarchists and leninists. Not sure if I dig it
Yeah this is the stage we are at and the page we should all be on so to speak.
I just do not have an issue with the right wing of the DSA. Yknow?
they're not very willing to look past electoralism to any other kind of politics, so they're neither useful allies nor particularly relevant to any projects I care about?
Right, but I'm not worried about them like killing me during an uprising, yknow?
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Bold of you to think they’ll apologize and not enthusiastically cheer on the fascist regime
They just want things to be normal again. yknow?
yeah I guess. I have them firmly in the roll eyes and ignore category. they're not enemies but they're also not friends, y'know?
Yeah, I'm not saying they're good, just that this kind of resentment towards them is unhealthy
I'd argue it's more unhealthy to dismiss criticisms of liberals, talk down to people in this thread, and say that people rightfully calling them out is "politics of resentment".
Yeah I politically resent fascist collaborators. I would say it’s an extremely healthy habit.
I will have an unhealthy resentment against the ideology mine is built to dismantle
The SPD killed all the Communists in the German revolution. Liberals are generally significantly to their Right.
I don’t have particular issue with them, just no faith lol. Rather I think the DSA in its membership spectrum from straight up lib, to socdem (lib), to some genuine commited leftists, can do good things on a more localized level.
However, I don’t believe most anyone in the right wing of the DSA will have our (committed anticapitalist leftists) backs when shit hits the fan. When it comes down to supporting the vulnerable, and those who actually work to protect and advocate for them, against the violent forces of capitalist repression? I don’t see a lot of radlibs that gather under the very broad DSA umbrella sticking with professed convictions when they’re tested. So many of these are the people who prioritized tone policing and decried property damage during the George Floyd uprisings. I have little faith in them.
The DSA is certainly a far sight better than most any major party or bloc in American politics, but that’s a pretty pathetically low bar to clear. Mostly, I just don’t think of them at all tho lol
Idk they're usually transphobic
That's fair, I don't see a lot of that in my chapter, but it's majority Marxist, so the right wing has to be better behaved. I forget that national leadership includes a cop and my idea of what "right wing" means is deeply skewed.
ban, just ban, nope
lmao I would hope there was a politics of resentment between socialists and fascists, liberals and anti-communtist "progressives"
Otherwise wtf is the point of our politics
Don't trust the Liberals, they will betray you. -
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Both US parties are anti-lib anyway. The meme is just a jumble of words
I am begging liberals to please learn the meaning of words
Yeah. They think they can be capitalists, conservatives and libs at the same time like wtf
One should either want people to be liberated from capitalist hierarchies or conserve them, there's no both
Remember comrades, don't trust and repeat the capitalist redefining of words. North Americans might have a hard time learning out of the programming.
Using their apologia language just serves them and none sustain critical evaluation.
"Neoliberal" = pure capitalist conservatism. "Economic liberalism/free markets" same bullshit. All trying to maintain the status quo anti-liberal hierarchy.
Edit: sorry for hurting capitalist feelings that are in some of the comments
Liberalism is the ideology that justifies the continued existence of capitalism, and in that ideology there are social factions with tactical disagreements about how best to manage and justify capitalism, this usually manifests as a cultural divide among conservative liberals and social liberals, but both of them are subsumed by the current mass iteration of liberalism we call neoliberalism
Liberals are capitalists because they believe in the 'freedom' of markets. Liberalism does not refer to freedom from hierarchy, it refers to freedom from feudalism and feudal dues, specifically. The freedom of private property.
What is your definition of liberal?
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism and encompasses all liberal tendencies - conservatives, social liberals, dem socs, libertarians etc. If you're defining it in a unique way you should let us know so we can understand what you mean
Any common dictionary is totally fine for sharing definitions, it's the way terms are used one needs to stay vigilant about
But what are you using the word to mean? I'm asking so i can understand what you're saying
"aNy CoMmOn diCtioNary" Then cite one dipshit.
Death to America
liberalism is the dominant ideology of capitalism. neither US party is anti-lib because to be such is to be anticapitalist.
the US democratic party is an overwhelmingly liberal conservative party
"Both parties are anti-lib" in truth means that they don't function the way that your fairy tales tell you they should, so you pretend they're not Liberal.
This person is pretty strange. They consider themselves some sort of anarchist i think, but really care about the word liberal and insist that everyone else in the world but them is using it wrong because...
They literally just invented a meaning of their own: Liberal = liberation from capitalist hierarchy
which is hilariously wrong, historically speaking
Yeah, since liberals invented the capitalist hierarchy. But somehow using words correctly is "capitalist apologia language" and the definition they invented is the one true leftist way of speaking