not wanting to date trans women stems from y’all not viewing them as “real” women... so yes your “preference” is transphobic.— destiny (@MAM1SHAMPOO) July 1, 2020
If you thought you were a true ally, maybe it's time for some introspection.
I can answer this as a lesbian, so different perspective. I would totally date a pre-op trans woman. For me the liking of dick (which I fucking don’t) doesn’t have a bearing on a relationship.
Honestly, I think there’d have to be boundaries set regarding the physical aspect of the relationship and what is or isn’t kosher, because I wouldn’t want to be outside of my comfort zone, nor would they.
I think we need to talk about this more as a society because I remember the 2013 tumblr stuff another user mentioned, and that was before gay marriage was a thing even, and I saw it as a bridge too far and it was alienating tbh. Almost performative. I see their point now, but it is still not an appropriate framing of the issue. Especially if people might have seen the way trans people are portrayed in porn and have problematic notions about how those logistics work
I'm not grossed out by penises, more just that they don't do much in terms for turning me on. I could definitely see that fact getting outweighed by a strong attraction to a pre op trans woman because I have met trans women I'm attracted to IRL.
At the same time, I'm not exactly into the idea of making someone into a subject of my own self-exploration. There's a lot of conditioning to unpack within myself, and I do not want to put that person through me dealing with own internalized transphobia that I might not really even know is there. In a sense, it's really my own fear of being a shit person and putting someone in pain. I apologize if that comes off self-centered, or narrow minded.
In most aspects of my life, belief follows action, not the other way around. Just take the plunge into trying to be the person you want to be instead of changing your mind and hoping your behavior will follow. Relationships, love, and sex are not that terrain, to me. I'd feel like I'm playing with someone's heart and not even knowing how I'm going to react.
yea, open communication is the key. I'd feel so comfy approaching a relationship with someone who talked about these kinds of fears because I know they see me as a whole ass person, have boundaries, and are prepared to communicate.
this is a super healthy attitude and I appreciate you for posting the one reasonable take from a cishet person in this whole ass thread. this doesn't come off as self-centered so much as self-aware. ❤️
Hey, thanks so much. Just trying to be honest. It's possible I'm being charitable, but I think if more cis het dudes took the time to actually interrogate their own desires I think more of us would come around to an opinion like this. No one wants to be in a relationship where they're being a bad partner/the potential for stress and pain is high.
Having trans friends/connections in organizing work has been good for me as a person in terms of dealing with the preloaded nonsense you get from growing up in society. They're some of the most actually revolutionary people I know. That said, even then I'm hyper aware of not instrumentalizing those friendships as some form of "growth" for myself. Thinking like that is both fucked up and it puts this weird veil between you and that person that prevents you from seeing them as an individual and building meaningful relationships. ❤️
What's your experience been like trying to cultivate or keep male friends as a trans person?
I think if more cis het dudes took the time to actually interrogate their own desires I think more of us would come around to an opinion like this
I agree with you. I have an extra weird and personal lens on this topic because I went from dating women to dating men through transition and so I have a million different repressed needs and desires I'm still working through and some of them need a willing partner in order for me to explore. the only way I can approach that is through very open and honest communication about my needs, what might go wrong, etc..
I’m hyper aware of not instrumentalizing those friendships as some form of “growth” for myself
oof, ouch, ow. I've had a male friend literally use that line on me earlier this year and I had to chew him the fuck out for being an objectifying piece of shit. good on you for being self-aware enough to not do this.
What’s your experience been like trying to cultivate or keep male friends as a trans person?
pretty shit, honestly. overall, I kept my female friendships, but lost virtually all of my male ones for a variety of reasons. part of that is my fault - I wasn't super picky about my friendships before transition. my friends were the people who wanted to be friends with me. what I wanted didn't really enter into it. so as soon as I started coming out and enforcing boundaries, I had to clean house and push a lot of people out of my life. but I'm glad I did and I'm much happier for it. like I had several get creepy/abusive with me, several get super uncomfortable with my transition, etc..
now... it's still weird... I'm not used to thinking about how close I am with men and managing that to avoid like accidentally falling for people or encouraging them to fall for me. I'm used to having easy friendships with men that I don't have to think about very much but, oops, suddenly I do (I always did but I was too repressed to realize the kind of trouble I was getting myself into). like, I started spending more time with someone because they were necessarily in my covid bubble, and we both needed the company, and suddenly, inside of two months, it became messy af. so I've needed to shift all my boundaries and it's been a huge learning experience.
so that's probably not the most helpful answer but ask me again in like a year after I've sorted out all the problems caused by getting my sexuality so wrong for my entire life.
so that’s probably not the most helpful answer but ask me again in like a year after I’ve sorted out all the problems caused by getting my sexuality so wrong for my entire life.
Lol you're fine. Thank you for your perspective. Im sorry to hear you lost friends, but it seems like some house cleaning was in order to get you to where you needed to be.
To be fair there are some pretty wild takes ranging from banal transphobia to proud boys level rhetoric of “what if they couldn’t bear MY child” ....ewww
Yeah, actually. Trans girls are hot to me. I like secondary sexual characteristics like most folks. I'm not sure if I would actually enjoy sex with said trans woman though, mostly because of anal sex. I might try it but it might not be for me. I am not repulsed by dicks, but they don't turn me on either.
Content Warning: I say some pretty candid things about my sex life.
To start - I want to make abundantly clear that I'm trying to approach this in good faith. If I somehow miss the mark, just let me know. My goal is effective conversation here, not to hurt feelings. I don't strongly identify with my gender identity these days (there's so many more interesting things about people), but "straight, cis, man" is what I generally consider myself to be.
In my case, probably not. I have learned the hard way that I cannot ignore or get over certain traits in my partners. To be clear, these traits are totally void of moral significance, but I can't be an effective partner in a relationship to someone who has them. I've run into this problem with both physical and non-physical traits.
As an example, I'm very sensitive to smells in general, so much so that it has been the cause for several of my relationships ending. The first partner I was with where it became a problem for us had a scent that I simply could not ignore. We got along GREAT except for this one issue. Their natural blend of pheromones or body biology produced a scent that just seemed wrong to me for no reason at all. It's not like it's a bad smell- it isn't unpleasant in the same way universally recognized bad smells are, and it isn't a hygiene problem either seeing as I still noticed it even right after they took a shower. It's just something about the way I'm wired that is repelled by it I guess. When present, it makes me uncomfortable enough that I can't put it out of mind. I can think about other things too, of course, but the smell actively distracts me and demands attention. It's something that I can only smell in close physical proximity to someone too, so it was hardest for me during what should be our most intimate moments, like sex or cuddling.
When we first started dating I was able to push past that discomfort because I was so excited by all the other things I liked about them. Shit, I STILL like those other things about them. I thought I'd get used to it eventually, but that turned out not to be the case. After a few months of dating the excitement started to wear off, yet the smell was just as off-putting as when I first noticed it. It became harder and harder to ignore, and eventually resulted in intimacy problems. They were otherwise super attractive to me, but I couldn't perform in the bedroom because I couldn't get over the scent. I was able to get hard via stimulation, but it was never as strong or enjoyable of an erection as I had had with other partners, and sex became increasingly less appealing to me. When I'm happy and healthy and with the right partner, I have an almost insatiable sex drive, and sex/physical intimacy are extremely important to me, So the intimacy issues were really unsatisfying for me in a relationship. We broke up on worse terms than I would have liked because of hurt feelings.
The lesson I eventually synthesized from that and other similar experiences is to not ignore when I get that kind 'off' instinct. It doesn't matter how small an issue it seems to be, I now know that it will not be a small issue for me in the long run. Those kinds of issues have consistently ended in hurt feelings and intimacy problems, so I think it's best for all involved if I simply respect those irrational preferences.
So where do dicks fit into this picture? Well, they give me that same "off" instinct when considering them in an intimate way. It's not an "EW YUCKY PENIS" reaction, I'm not offended by nudity generally, but I realized that looking at dicks evokes a very similar response as my smell sensitivity. It's not that I don't like dicks, but that I'm actively turned off by them. I guess that's true of masculine features in general for me. I can look at or think about them impartiallly/with no reaction at all, or I can choose to focus on them with aesthetic admiration similar to how one might look at a piece of art, but viewing them when I'm turned on is a quick way to turn me right off. Seeing as one of my must haves for a romantic relationship is an active sex life, I can't see myself being able to do that with ANYONE who has a penis; man, woman, or whatever they may or may not identify as.
deleted by creator
I can answer this as a lesbian, so different perspective. I would totally date a pre-op trans woman. For me the liking of dick (which I fucking don’t) doesn’t have a bearing on a relationship.
Honestly, I think there’d have to be boundaries set regarding the physical aspect of the relationship and what is or isn’t kosher, because I wouldn’t want to be outside of my comfort zone, nor would they.
I think we need to talk about this more as a society because I remember the 2013 tumblr stuff another user mentioned, and that was before gay marriage was a thing even, and I saw it as a bridge too far and it was alienating tbh. Almost performative. I see their point now, but it is still not an appropriate framing of the issue. Especially if people might have seen the way trans people are portrayed in porn and have problematic notions about how those logistics work
deleted by creator
I'm not grossed out by penises, more just that they don't do much in terms for turning me on. I could definitely see that fact getting outweighed by a strong attraction to a pre op trans woman because I have met trans women I'm attracted to IRL.
At the same time, I'm not exactly into the idea of making someone into a subject of my own self-exploration. There's a lot of conditioning to unpack within myself, and I do not want to put that person through me dealing with own internalized transphobia that I might not really even know is there. In a sense, it's really my own fear of being a shit person and putting someone in pain. I apologize if that comes off self-centered, or narrow minded.
deleted by creator
❤️
In most aspects of my life, belief follows action, not the other way around. Just take the plunge into trying to be the person you want to be instead of changing your mind and hoping your behavior will follow. Relationships, love, and sex are not that terrain, to me. I'd feel like I'm playing with someone's heart and not even knowing how I'm going to react.
yea, open communication is the key. I'd feel so comfy approaching a relationship with someone who talked about these kinds of fears because I know they see me as a whole ass person, have boundaries, and are prepared to communicate.
this is a super healthy attitude and I appreciate you for posting the one reasonable take from a cishet person in this whole ass thread. this doesn't come off as self-centered so much as self-aware. ❤️
Hey, thanks so much. Just trying to be honest. It's possible I'm being charitable, but I think if more cis het dudes took the time to actually interrogate their own desires I think more of us would come around to an opinion like this. No one wants to be in a relationship where they're being a bad partner/the potential for stress and pain is high.
Having trans friends/connections in organizing work has been good for me as a person in terms of dealing with the preloaded nonsense you get from growing up in society. They're some of the most actually revolutionary people I know. That said, even then I'm hyper aware of not instrumentalizing those friendships as some form of "growth" for myself. Thinking like that is both fucked up and it puts this weird veil between you and that person that prevents you from seeing them as an individual and building meaningful relationships. ❤️
What's your experience been like trying to cultivate or keep male friends as a trans person?
I agree with you. I have an extra weird and personal lens on this topic because I went from dating women to dating men through transition and so I have a million different repressed needs and desires I'm still working through and some of them need a willing partner in order for me to explore. the only way I can approach that is through very open and honest communication about my needs, what might go wrong, etc..
oof, ouch, ow. I've had a male friend literally use that line on me earlier this year and I had to chew him the fuck out for being an objectifying piece of shit. good on you for being self-aware enough to not do this.
pretty shit, honestly. overall, I kept my female friendships, but lost virtually all of my male ones for a variety of reasons. part of that is my fault - I wasn't super picky about my friendships before transition. my friends were the people who wanted to be friends with me. what I wanted didn't really enter into it. so as soon as I started coming out and enforcing boundaries, I had to clean house and push a lot of people out of my life. but I'm glad I did and I'm much happier for it. like I had several get creepy/abusive with me, several get super uncomfortable with my transition, etc..
now... it's still weird... I'm not used to thinking about how close I am with men and managing that to avoid like accidentally falling for people or encouraging them to fall for me. I'm used to having easy friendships with men that I don't have to think about very much but, oops, suddenly I do (I always did but I was too repressed to realize the kind of trouble I was getting myself into). like, I started spending more time with someone because they were necessarily in my covid bubble, and we both needed the company, and suddenly, inside of two months, it became messy af. so I've needed to shift all my boundaries and it's been a huge learning experience.
so that's probably not the most helpful answer but ask me again in like a year after I've sorted out all the problems caused by getting my sexuality so wrong for my entire life.
Lol you're fine. Thank you for your perspective. Im sorry to hear you lost friends, but it seems like some house cleaning was in order to get you to where you needed to be.
Don’t answer this @cambria means well but the admins are banning people like crazy right now
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
To be fair there are some pretty wild takes ranging from banal transphobia to proud boys level rhetoric of “what if they couldn’t bear MY child” ....ewww
Fuck those people but there are others who are clearly not on that level being banned without any (public) complaints about them
deleted by creator
Nobody. People just aren't aware of transphobic/terf dogwhistles
Seems yet another strain of the virus has come over from the UK
Fr I'm not touching that question with a ten foot pole
deleted by creator
Don’t worry it shows and I agree with you just don’t think the admins seem to agree
deleted by creator
Yes, having a pointless struggle session every 2 weeks that ends with a third of the site banned is super good
Yes, ha ha ha, yes!
:sicko-yes:
Ok
Yeah, actually. Trans girls are hot to me. I like secondary sexual characteristics like most folks. I'm not sure if I would actually enjoy sex with said trans woman though, mostly because of anal sex. I might try it but it might not be for me. I am not repulsed by dicks, but they don't turn me on either.
Content Warning: I say some pretty candid things about my sex life.
To start - I want to make abundantly clear that I'm trying to approach this in good faith. If I somehow miss the mark, just let me know. My goal is effective conversation here, not to hurt feelings. I don't strongly identify with my gender identity these days (there's so many more interesting things about people), but "straight, cis, man" is what I generally consider myself to be.
In my case, probably not. I have learned the hard way that I cannot ignore or get over certain traits in my partners. To be clear, these traits are totally void of moral significance, but I can't be an effective partner in a relationship to someone who has them. I've run into this problem with both physical and non-physical traits.
As an example, I'm very sensitive to smells in general, so much so that it has been the cause for several of my relationships ending. The first partner I was with where it became a problem for us had a scent that I simply could not ignore. We got along GREAT except for this one issue. Their natural blend of pheromones or body biology produced a scent that just seemed wrong to me for no reason at all. It's not like it's a bad smell- it isn't unpleasant in the same way universally recognized bad smells are, and it isn't a hygiene problem either seeing as I still noticed it even right after they took a shower. It's just something about the way I'm wired that is repelled by it I guess. When present, it makes me uncomfortable enough that I can't put it out of mind. I can think about other things too, of course, but the smell actively distracts me and demands attention. It's something that I can only smell in close physical proximity to someone too, so it was hardest for me during what should be our most intimate moments, like sex or cuddling.
When we first started dating I was able to push past that discomfort because I was so excited by all the other things I liked about them. Shit, I STILL like those other things about them. I thought I'd get used to it eventually, but that turned out not to be the case. After a few months of dating the excitement started to wear off, yet the smell was just as off-putting as when I first noticed it. It became harder and harder to ignore, and eventually resulted in intimacy problems. They were otherwise super attractive to me, but I couldn't perform in the bedroom because I couldn't get over the scent. I was able to get hard via stimulation, but it was never as strong or enjoyable of an erection as I had had with other partners, and sex became increasingly less appealing to me. When I'm happy and healthy and with the right partner, I have an almost insatiable sex drive, and sex/physical intimacy are extremely important to me, So the intimacy issues were really unsatisfying for me in a relationship. We broke up on worse terms than I would have liked because of hurt feelings.
The lesson I eventually synthesized from that and other similar experiences is to not ignore when I get that kind 'off' instinct. It doesn't matter how small an issue it seems to be, I now know that it will not be a small issue for me in the long run. Those kinds of issues have consistently ended in hurt feelings and intimacy problems, so I think it's best for all involved if I simply respect those irrational preferences.
So where do dicks fit into this picture? Well, they give me that same "off" instinct when considering them in an intimate way. It's not an "EW YUCKY PENIS" reaction, I'm not offended by nudity generally, but I realized that looking at dicks evokes a very similar response as my smell sensitivity. It's not that I don't like dicks, but that I'm actively turned off by them. I guess that's true of masculine features in general for me. I can look at or think about them impartiallly/with no reaction at all, or I can choose to focus on them with aesthetic admiration similar to how one might look at a piece of art, but viewing them when I'm turned on is a quick way to turn me right off. Seeing as one of my must haves for a romantic relationship is an active sex life, I can't see myself being able to do that with ANYONE who has a penis; man, woman, or whatever they may or may not identify as.