I have only seen national DSA leadership oppose the idea or turn it into a personality contest with Jimmy Dore.

How is that democratic at all?! They are openly contradicting the democratically-decided party line…

What an absolutely shit organization.

Here's the quote:

2019 presents a unique opportunity for the Democratic Socialists for Medicare for All campaign: to be a key player in pushing HR 1384, the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, to a vote in the House of Representatives. DSA is not alone in this work. National Nurses United, along with nearly 30 other national and local unions and progressive organizations are coordinating to take advantage of this moment. Since Bernie Sanders’ presidential run in 2016, single-payer advocates have been successfully turning Medicare for All into a litmus test for politicians. A floor vote in the House will force representatives to finally reveal whether they’re on the side of healthcare profiteers or the side of the working class.

  • PhaseFour [he/him]
    4·
    4 years ago

    Without Jimmy Dore, there would be no national conversation on advancing M4A right now. It would all be left to local organizations and advocacy.

    A national conversation helps bolster local organizing, and most people aren't weirdly obsessed with media personalities. Re: Bernie Sanders campaign.

    The tactics to distract from forcing the vote on M4A have been the same tactics utilized to distract from Bernie's socialist platform.

    This is why you need a party

    I agree. This is a great opportunity to teach people why parties are useful.

      • PhaseFour [he/him]
        2·
        4 years ago

        Entryists/potential allies among the Dems need to have a united front to have any leverage at all and the fact that they’re already losing committee positions means that Dem leadership does not think they have the capacity to do so.

        I agree. The people need to demand these progressive politicians operate as a united front, advocating for the immediate needs of working people.

        There are other factors that disrupt that united front, but leftists yelling at each other on the internet, which is absolutely the discourse, does nothing but ensure a split.

        If yelling at people online will end Leftist organizing, then we need to give up. It is impossible to advocate a socialist agenda in the US without the State Department working to disrupt it at every opportunity.

        I don’t see any parties ready to scoop up the disappointed libs

        The people who have been leading the force the vote effort have shown interest in continuing this work, and they have a decent outreach. I don't think an existing party is necessary these people to continue organizing.

        I'd argue communist parties should be offering these people guidance, rather than pooh-poohing their political experiment, but I am not the leader of a communist party.

          • PhaseFour [he/him]
            2·
            4 years ago

            Doing nothing would be better even though you still probably wouldn’t see any hardball.

            I disagree. Political struggles which prove the need for a workers party are good, even if the workers party does not exist to fill that space yet.

            This entire activity is a false catharsis that will lead to rudderless disappointment.

            I've heard this said about every Left-wing project - anti-racist protests, the Bernie campaign, etc. In my experience, this is just nihilistic. People tend to be more engaged after political struggles.

            Any org they continue with will have to resemble a party.

            Yes. At the very least, there must be democratic organs, and the expectation that members carry out the political line.

            It will have to work to elect opponents of those who are against M4A and to elect those for it and work at multiple levels to do so.

            Maybe. Those are some tactics available.

            I haven’t seen any communist party statements on this push at all. PSL is the only one with any national recognition imo and they haven’t said anything so far as I can tell

            The PSL has a released statement which has offered support for the advocacy of a socialist program within the Democratic Party. Although, there's been no comment from the Central Committee on this moment in particular. The timing has been really unfortunate given the holiday.

              • PhaseFour [he/him]
                3·
                4 years ago

                Personally, all I see is leftists shitting on each other and that this is where disappointment and anger will go.

                I'm going to vent on an anonymous forum about the DSA contradicting their platform. That isn't organizing.

                What organizing spaces are you in the forcing the vote? Are you just on Twitter and here? I don't really trust your perspective on this issue given the way you have talked about it.

                The timing is a very big part of why this whole thing is counterproductive.

                How is seizing on a moment "counterproductive." This political tactic was discovered 12 days ago. That shouldn't change peoples' support for an obviously progressive political issue.

                  • PhaseFour [he/him]
                    1·
                    4 years ago

                    I don’t know what you mean but I’m in a few socialist orgs that I’ll avoid mentioning to avoid even slight doxxing. Keep opsec up, up, up!

                    I mean, what are the political organizations through which you are interacting with Force the Vote? Or is your understanding of the issue limited to consuming Leftist theater?

                    Okay, so what in your experience leads you to believe that the personally dismissive nature of this discourse (which you’re getting close to, now) leads you to believe that its guaranteed failure will find a different outlet?

                    I do not care about "the discourse." I care about how political organizations are engaging with an opportunity to get a floor vote for M4A in the next couple months.

                    Speaker / minority leader selection is a scheduled event.

                    The margins in the House have been known since mid-December. This tactic makes no sense unless the DSA-affilates can without their vote to further their org's strategy. Re: "This political tactic was discovered 12 days ago", in mid-December.

                      • PhaseFour [he/him]
                        2·
                        4 years ago

                        I’m not attempting to force the vote at this particular moment at all because of the reasons I’ve already given…

                        Then I don't understand the point you are making. You are observing political theater. You are not trying to engage with this effort. It doesn't sound like you disagree with this characterization.

                        Remember how I said the contribution of this discourse was pointless, personally dismissive infighting?

                        Then stop contributing to "the discourse" lol

                        Determine the degree to which you feel this is a political opportunity, then act accordingly.

                        The discourse is the entirety of this tactic. It is atomized yelling on the internet.

                        No it literally is not.

                        There are demonstrations planned. There are people reaching out to constituents, elected officials, and various political organizations to make use of this moment. You can disagree with these tactics, but people are putting in work.

                        Again, you are only engaging with the online discourse, and you are projecting.

                        Horse trading over speaker / monitory leader happens every single term and Dore et al were talking about this in late November.

                        People are responding to the fact that, in mid-December, an unlikely situation occurred - the Speaker margin is such that DSA-affiliates can publicly extract concessions. That, and the DSA-affiliates have no intention of extracting concessions.

                        I support people in their effort to demand that DSA-affiliates extract concessions from Pelosi by publicly withholding their vote for her.

                        That opportunity doesn’t exist because this tactic ensured its own failure.

                        The Bernie campaign was an ensured failure and it created an opportunity for political organizing. These are not mutually exclusive.

              • PhaseFour [he/him]
                ·
                4 years ago

                I'm referring to the party's line on the Sanders campaign, which is from March.

                  • PhaseFour [he/him]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    Ah. I understood that article to support the people demanding a socialist agenda, even when those calls come from within the Democratic Party. The Bernie campaign was one example of that. I'll need to reread it.

                    I don’t know how that statement relates to this Dore vs AOC thing though. The situation is VERY different, mainly that Sanders captured the support of the masses for a while, yet AOC has not

                    I don't know what you mean by the "Dore vs AOC thing." A public spat between a talk radio host and a politician isn't comparable to the Bernie campaign.

                    I'm referring to a campaign to force the government to pass M4A during the pandemic, which has seen mass support and fledgling organization form around it in the past week.

                    I guess I don't see this as an esoteric debate within the Democratic Party. I've talked to many in the Force the Vote Slack who've said M4A is their only hope right now. It reminds me a lot of the Bernie campaign in that sense.

                      • PhaseFour [he/him]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        I thought the force the vote thing exclusively came from that spat between those two personalities

                        There has been a massive effort to portray it this way.

                        It was launched into the mainstream by AOC responding on Twitter to the demand. Jimmy Dore has been on a crusade to calling out a bunch of bullshit in the DSA/Jacobin world.

                        But amidst that, I'm seeing people funnel into organizing spaces at a surprising rate. The Slack channel at this website has been up for a few days, and it has 1,500 members now.

                        Maybe national will release a statement, idk, it depends on how this pans out

                        I'm an optimist. I'm hopeful that the people will turn this into a real campaign. And it's a campaign that recognizes the Democratic Party as an obstacle, which helps.

                        You won’t find many Bernie sympathizers in the PSL

                        Yeah, Bernie deserves no sympathy. His supporters do.

                        I'm a candidate. I have been keeping tabs on this campaign and sharing what I see with my branch.