I have only seen national DSA leadership oppose the idea or turn it into a personality contest with Jimmy Dore.

How is that democratic at all?! They are openly contradicting the democratically-decided party line…

What an absolutely shit organization.

Here's the quote:

2019 presents a unique opportunity for the Democratic Socialists for Medicare for All campaign: to be a key player in pushing HR 1384, the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, to a vote in the House of Representatives. DSA is not alone in this work. National Nurses United, along with nearly 30 other national and local unions and progressive organizations are coordinating to take advantage of this moment. Since Bernie Sanders’ presidential run in 2016, single-payer advocates have been successfully turning Medicare for All into a litmus test for politicians. A floor vote in the House will force representatives to finally reveal whether they’re on the side of healthcare profiteers or the side of the working class.

  • longhorn617 [any]
    2·
    4 年前

    You have literally been condescending to every person in this thread who dares point out how this strategy is empty liberalism, and you deserve nothing but condescendion in return.

    You hate the unruly masses desperately trying to get basic access to health care during a pandemic.

    No, I hate college educated liberals like you, who are more interested in pumping up their followers on Twitter and showing how revolutionary you are through the discourse than actually doing anything to actually build power. Because you just want to post on the fucking internet about how revolutionary you are and yell at anyone who dares point our the most obvious flaws in your "plans", material circumstances be damned! You and the libs like you couldn't organize a fucking bake sale. That's why you can't get the working class to buy into any of your horrible strategies: you are incapable of delivering even the meagerest of material victories for them, so instead you set your eyes on goals you openly tell them are unachievable, and expect them to show up with you and bask in beautiful defeat.

    • PhaseFour [he/him]
      2·
      4 年前

      The purpose of organizing to turn unorganized mass discontent into organized political action. The demand for M4A immediately has been wildly popular within the progressive base. But the progressive institutions are opposed to the tactic.

      Organizers who are willing to listen to and learn from the people are working to provide this unorganized mass a political organization to advocate for their needs.

      The Slack channel is up to 2,000 people in it after a couple days. It’s more active than any other political organizing space I am in right now.

      My first comment in this thread. I don't see anything particularly condescending here. I want to work with people who want to fight for health care during a pandemic.

      Let me know when you get Joe Biden to join your Slack channel, because it ain’t going to accomplish shit otherwise.

      Your response to me.

      I can read. You have been a condescending prick from the beginning.

      You are projecting a lot of weird hang-ups you have onto me. It's weird. Your rant here is embarrassing.

      You're begging me to dox my political and labor work to demonstrate that normal people support an unequivocal demand for health care during a pandemic. I can't think of any other reason to say slanderous shit about me.

      • longhorn617 [any]
        3·
        4 年前

        I have only seen national DSA leadership oppose the idea or turn it into a personality contest with Jimmy Dore.

        How is that democratic at all?! They are openly contradicting the democratically-decided party line…

        What an absolutely shit organization.

        Your actual first condescending comment in the thread, wherein you purposely misrepresent the strategy that had been put forward, in which the plan to force the vote came at the end of the strategy after the power necessary to actually leverage it had been built, not jump right to the vote and hope that a movement would magically coalesce around it like a cargo cult.

        You are projecting a lot of weird hang-ups you have onto me.

        Lol, no, I'm not the ultra here. I'm the one interested in building actual working class power and helping deliver real concrete gains for the working class. And I know from my life that takes a lot of dirty, boring, unsexy work that people like you aren't willing to do.

        You’re begging me to dox my political and labor work

        Lmao, get over yourself. You are trying to run a influence op on the Democratic party. You don't do anything worth knowing about.

        that normal people support an unequivocal demand for health care during a pandemic

        Stop trying to equate this with the idea that they support your or believe in your because of it.

        • PhaseFour [he/him]
          2·
          4 年前

          Your actual first condescending comment in the thread, wherein you purposely misrepresent the strategy that had been put forward, in which the plan to force the vote came at the end of the strategy after the power necessary to actually leverage it had been built

          I'm calling out people who are openly contradicting a political line the DSA decided on in 2019. This was not "after a campaign." The forced vote is clearly mentioned in the introduction, with no prerequisites. The only change is that DSA-affiliates can force a M4A vote now.

          I'm not condescending here. I'm openly voicing my disdain for the unaccountability in DSA.

          I’m the one interested in building actual working class power and helping deliver real concrete gains for the working class . And I know from my life that takes a lot of dirty, boring, unsexy work that people like you aren’t willing to do.

          Somehow demanding that Congress provide people health care in a pandemic is contradictory with any other type of organizing?

          Lmao, get over yourself. You are trying to run a influence op on the Democratic party. You don’t do anything worth knowing about.

          How is this an influence op for Democrats? It is rejected by every Democrat besides Lee Carter.

          Also, if you hate anything that may look like an "influence op for Democrats", I'm really curious what your involvement in the labor movement looks like. 90% of labor unions would be beyond the pale.

          Stop trying to equate this with the idea that they support your or believe in your because of it.

          Meanwhile you post self-flagellating garbage like "[I'm] building actual working class power and helping deliver real concrete gains for the working class." You can do that while advocating people get health care during a pandemic.

            • PhaseFour [he/him]
              1·
              4 年前

              This entire situation has been so jarring.

              I'm saying the exact same things DSA & the DSA-affiliates in Congress were saying six months ago. The only thing that has changed is that the DSA-affiliates have the political power to force a vote on M4A.

              I'm getting major 2008 vibes these days, when DSA gave cover for Obama.

              • aqwxcvbnji [none/use name]
                1·
                4 年前

                I’m getting major 2008 vibes these days, when DSA gave cover for Obama.

                I didn't know they did that, seeing what's happening, that's not very promising.

                I do want to make the nuance that a lot of people in DSA seem to be supporting this, and DSA before and after Bernie's 2016 run is a different organisation.

                Anyway, I made my initial comment because I thought it was unfair that you got so much vitriol for simply defending an idea that I thought that was already accepted on the left.

                • PhaseFour [he/him]
                  ·
                  4 年前

                  I do want to make the nuance that a lot of people in DSA seem to be supporting this, and DSA before and after Bernie’s 2016 run is a different organisation.

                  Yeah, it's the DSA-affiliates in elected office, news outlets like Jacobin, and progressive think tanks have had a lot of influence setting the narrative.

                  The rank-and-file has either been supportive or misinformed. Most people were unaware that AOC & DSA have advocated a floor vote for years.

                  I made my initial comment because I thought it was unfair that you got so much vitriol for simply defending an idea that I thought that was already accepted on the left.

                  I appreciate it.

    • aqwxcvbnji [none/use name]
      1·
      4 年前

      I hate college educated liberals like you, who are more interested in pumping up their followers on Twitter and showing how revolutionary you are through the discourse than actually doing anything to actually build power.

      Almost everyone on this site is a comrade in one form or another. There's no reason to say such condescending things towards people you disagree with here. Make your critiques in a constructive manner instead of making personal attacks on people.

        • aqwxcvbnji [none/use name]
          1·
          4 年前

          You weren't talking to me, I was just abhorred by the contempt you show for comrades you disagree with.

          Here's a little bit of Mao for you, from "combat liberalism ":

          "To indulge in personal attacks, pick quarrels, vent personal spite or seek revenge instead of entering into an argument and struggling against incorrect views for the sake of unity or progress or getting the work done properly. Is a fifth type [of liberalism]."

          • longhorn617 [any]
            1·
            4 年前

            Great, no go yell and tweet that at all the people like OP who are calling everyone who disagree with their dumb strategy traitors to the working class. I was nice about it two weeks ago and explained why this is a bad strategy. I'm not being nice anymore to them, or to people like you who try to defend them when there is an actual event unfolding right now showing that their strategy is ineffective.