They both suck
Nomiki sucks and she's prolly the main reason I haven't watched TMR in a month
Tbh, I think they were/are fucking. She’s a spook afterall and not that Sam Seder needed any pushing to drift right after brooks died, but it’s my conspiracy theory lmao
I'm not looking to start some sort of struggle session because I don't really care either way here.
Why do people call Jimmy Dore a grifter or hate him or whatever?
I've seen some people on Twitter say since he has money that means he's not suited to lead this little push (which I don't want to rehash either). But that's kinda bullshit to me. I don't think credentials should have anything to do with a movement, nor how much money someone has.
I dislike him, not because he's angry (although he goes way overboard sometimes), but because he toots his own horn for like half his videos on YouTube, at least of the few I've watched. I swear legit half of the video is about how he's the only one covering stuff.
But I don't get the hate I guess.
Should add I have no idea who this other person is lol
I dislike him, not because he’s angry (although he goes way overboard sometimes), but because he toots his own horn for like half his videos on YouTube, at least of the few I’ve watched. I swear legit half of the video is about how he’s the only one covering stuff.
This was part of the reason why I stopped watching his videos. Felt like it was getting more and more excessive. I don't hate him though. He's a big reason why I took a hard turn left after the 2016 election after being a dejected radlib in the aftermath of the Obama presidency.
Oh and Nomiki worked in TYT for a bit, then got fired and has been covering NY politics for a while on her own I think. Don't really follow her all that much so not 100% that's all she does.
More importantly Nomiki Konst also worked as a contributor on Fox news selling the US / NATO war on libya to the rubes with frankly rabid neocon arguments. Then she decided that the real money was in the progressive grift and started spouting imperialist smears on sam seders shit show.
She was at TYT first. Think about it.. TYT hired her after she got back from Libya essentially lmao
They paid her off after the money came in though lmfao
Edit: laid her off, but who the fuck knows anymore
Well Chenk did laugh like an unhinged lunatic when US / nato destroyed libya, so probably just a meeting of like minded people.
She's god a podcast and does MR now.
Dixon too.
It's all this stupid beef that Sam has with Dore.
anyway after hearing him tell the story of getting sick it's kinda gross to call him a grifter.
Why do people call Jimmy Dore a grifter or hate him or whatever?
His delivery style is very jarring, his show involves a not-insignificant number of "please support my podcast" pitches, and he likes Tulsi.
resonates with so many struggling working class people
Does it though? Literally the only people talking about this on either side are “internet leftists”
If he’s the only person reaching workers, that’s something we should take a look at and fix. There’s no point reaching workers if you’re reaching them with uneducated drivel from someone who isn’t even a socialist lol. We need to be reaching workers with the right info, it isn’t an end in of itself.
Where are all the “leftists” demanding for Medicare for All in the midst of a pandemic crisis?
Huddled around the corpse of the Sanders campaign screaming "We warned you!" and "You didn't listen!"
This whole debacle really helped expose many of the so-called Twitter “leftists” as actually reactionaries who really want to preserve the status quo.
Turns out repeated frustration, humiliation, and failure can make reactionists of us all.
Eh not really. Dudes been fucked over by the system, but I don't think he's politically motivated in that way.
He’s a committed anti-imperialist. I def wouldn’t call him a leftist. Succ dem but a good one
One of them spent time training the Islamist opposition in Libya after the NATO intervention and the other one is trying to advocate for medicare for al during a deadly pandemic when million have lost their employers based health insurance because he doesn't want anyone to have a similar health care story like he's had himself ever again.
I literally can't see the difference.
Like I said, they both suck. I don’t know why people feel the need to stand up for Dore, he isn’t even a socialist, the amount of time he dedicates electoralism is evidence of that. This whole shitfight is about procedural congressional bullshit for gods sake. People treating him like he’s some new socialist messiah is laughable.
I don’t know why people feel the need to stand up for Dore
Because the hate he's receiving for using his platform to advance one of the key issues for the left in the US is undeserved.
#forcethevote is good, it's better than wath some nominal "socialists" are doing and we don't have to make the nuance every time that there's something wrong with his tone or shouting or whatever.
The real question is why some people feel the need to constantly bring up that a person who's advancing our goals might have character flaws. That's irrelevant, you're never gonna like everyone in your movement. Get over it.
I didn’t bring his character into it. I said he’s not a socialist and this whole debate is pointless.
I didn’t bring his character into it.
Your initial post was "they both suck", so yes you did.
And there's a world of difference between training NATO-funded jihadists in Libya and whatever you might throw at Dore.
this whole debate is pointless.
No, it isn't. The raison d'être of elected socialists is to use their position to advance the objective interests of the working class. DSA-candidates campaigned like that, AOC acted like that when she was just elected, and it seems that the system is managing to encapsulate them. It's very telling that those people are refusing to use their leverage in one of the few moments that they have it, and it should make us pause and think about how we can prevent our elected representatives from going down that path in the future.
I guess I fundamentally disagree with the idea that it makes a difference whether this debate lands one way or the other. A bit of a congressional procedural song and dance doesn’t seem to advance the cause of socialism to me. Maybe I could be convinced by someone who was a principled and well read socialist and knew what they were talking about, but Dore isn’t that person 🤷♂️
A bit of a congressional procedural song and dance doesn’t seem to advance the cause of socialism to me
Do you think socialists have any business in electoralism, or do you think it should be completely abandoned?
Electoralism? Perhaps, when strategically useful. American two-party electoral politics specifically? Probably not. Because I don’t think it’s particularly strategically useful. Almost all gains by the American left have historically come outside the party system.
Okay, so I disagree with that take. If you want to build a socialist party, elected officials can play an important role in popularising your message, look for example at Kschama Sawant her role in implementing the amazon-tax and the $15 minimum wage in Seattle.
The problem is: the elected officials of DSA don't take up such a role (anymore): they've been sucked in to the tit-for-that-game that politicians in Washington play, and #forcethevote shows that.
But if we fundamentally disagree about the role that elected officials need to have in building a socialist party, we won't agree about #forcethevote either, because we're analysing from a different framework.
