https://twitter.com/thepoeticgopher/status/1345883562168487936

  • bewts [he/him,comrade/them]
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    4 years ago

    Look Dore is an asshole and not very smart but its pretty obvious to people on the outside that y'all are playing softball with AOC because you think she can be president some day. Awful look for supposed socialists.

    • moist [any]
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      4 years ago

      deleted by creator

      • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        obviously it comes with perks like helping with movement building and public legitimacy but has its limitations beyond that, youre not some genius communist theoretician for saying electoralism bad and thinking youve discovered that were not gonna vote socialism in or something

    • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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      4 years ago

      We shouldn't play softball with the likes of AOC, but we should absolutely treat them with good faith. "Fuck you and everything you stand for you worthless sellout" is not treating someone in good faith. "You're worse than Pelosi" is not treating someone in good faith.

      • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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        4 years ago

        Nooo not my heckin AOCerino!!1! I promise she’s doing back-room deals! We have someone on the inside! Trust the plan!

        • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          stop being obsessed with aoc and politicians, its just as bad as people who idolize her

          • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            Stop being obsessed with the people denying healthcare during the pandemic? Just chill, huh?

            • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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              4 years ago

              the ppl supporting m4a arent the ones denying ppl healthcare and holding a failed vote wouldnt change that, you gotta do real organizing if you want healthcare idk what to tell u

              • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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                4 years ago

                The people supporting M4A support the people who are denying healthcare so yes they fuckin are

                • the_river_cass [she/her]
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                  4 years ago

                  mate... a floor vote wasn't going to get you healthcare... a vote doesn't meaningfully affect public opinion. abandon hope in bourgeois politics.

                  • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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                    4 years ago

                    No fucking shit it wasn't going to get anything, you commonwealth insect, it's about pressuring the leadership.

                    • the_river_cass [she/her]
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                      4 years ago

                      it's going to pressure no one into doing anything. try genuinely effective tactics.

                        • the_river_cass [she/her]
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                          4 years ago

                          there's no difference between the means and mechanisms of left and right politics. surely they're exactly the same. one definitely isn't in accordance with bourgeois interests and one opposed.

                            • the_river_cass [she/her]
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                              4 years ago

                              I'm referring to the people trying to pull that particular lever - you are trying to convince leftists of some sort to take action, no?

                              • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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                                4 years ago

                                What lever? The lever for democrats to do leftist stuff? I'm trying to force succdems into admitting they are liberals

                • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  you have a shit understanding of the world, if you want power you go build it, getting angry at aoc and posting about it online isnt considered praxis or organizing. self proclaimed communists getting wound up over congressional votes you hate to see it

                  • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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                    4 years ago

                    Oh yeah just go build power out of some power bricks, why didn't anyone else think of that, self proclaimed socialists defending liberal democrats, desperately trying to use humor to distract from it lol

        • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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          4 years ago

          lol there's no phantom back-room deal here; she said three weeks ago that progressives were trying to get PAYGO scrapped, and they got PAYGO scrapped:

          “They aren’t demanding anything” is an assumption - and a false one. These structural negotiations happen, they just aren’t live-tweeted.

          These negotiations started months ago, & include House rules, PAYGO exemptions, committee makeup, vote commitments, investigations, etc.

          She said what the plan was and why, then did it. You can disagree with whether that was the best plan possible, but pretending there's some scramble to ass-cover here is just horseshit.

          • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            Well she said before that she was trying to get a floor vote for M4A and that she didn't care if it means only 1 term, so why the change all of a sudden?

            • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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              4 years ago

              Maybe she figured out that if you toss your career away over something as inconsequential as forcing a vote guaranteed to lose, you're not going to get much done.

              I don't want politicians who make big dramatic statements and come away with nothing. I want politicians who at least have a plan to get something material accomplished.

              • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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                4 years ago

                As if the career of a politician is supposed to mean anything to the left, and lmao trust the plan! You don't have a fucking plan, asshole.

                • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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                  4 years ago

                  You don’t have a fucking plan, asshole.

                  The biggest takeaway from this whole fiasco is that wrecker behavior like this needs to be shouted down, and people who continuously engage in it need to be shown the door.

                • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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                  4 years ago

                  We're going to have politicians of some stripe at least until we achieve full communism. If they're going to be there anyway, I want ones who at least have a plan to get something material accomplished.

                  • garbage [none/use name,he/him]
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                    4 years ago

                    if you have any faith left in politicians you are kidding yourself. this is like saying 'if we're going to have cops i want ones that will stand against police brutality.'

                    they don't exist and the belief that any politician will get anything material accomplished for us is a hinderance. the only way anything will ever change is if politicians are forced to change shit through protest. they wouldn't be there if they were going to do anything to help you. even the 'good ones' don't do anything except provide false hope and promote faith in the electoral process. maybe if people stopped deluding themselves that some politician actually represented them they'd be more inclined to organize.

                    • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
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                      4 years ago

                      Where did I say to have faith in politicians? I said they're a fact of life for the foreseeable future. Whatever you do, they're going to be there, and they're going to affect your life. Ignoring that is just surrendering ground.

                      this is like saying ‘if we’re going to have cops

                      Every single socialist state, without exception, has had cops. We're going to have cops until we achieve full communism, too, and it's absolutely the same discussion.

    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      i dont give a fuck about AOC you people are just obsessed with being wreckers and not ever doing anything useful

      • invalidusernamelol [he/him]
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        4 years ago

        Are you Silver Legion?

        Is this the great struggle session that was foretold to dissolve chapo.chat for good?

        • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          “if you spend all your time complaining about politicians and getting caught up over congressional votes youre a liberal” send post

      • moist [any]
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        4 years ago

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      • bewts [he/him,comrade/them]
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        4 years ago

        If it were a handful of people, sure call them wreckers, but when its hundreds - its more like a marketing demographic.

    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      Pressuring a floor vote was part of it in the context of working with 30 other national unions and progressive organizations in 2019 in the runup to the elections. Campaigning to "pressure politicians" to not vote for Pelosi and force a m4a vote is different and turned into a counterproductive shitshow with Jimmy Dore attacking everyone and calling them traitors and shit saying we dont need to organize and blaming DSA and nurses unions for this whole thing failing

      • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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        4 years ago

        Ok so how long did you want to wait for Pelosi and unions to agree to hold a vote?

        • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          politicians arent going to save us, idk why you want to stake your shit on just telling them you want them to do stuff, you gotta organize if you want to wield any sort of power

          • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            If politicians don't matter then why do you care whether or not they play nice with Pelosi?

                • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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                  4 years ago

                  i dont form parasocial relations with politicians or expect them to win victories for me and tweeting at them to do something isn't a strategy but actively dissuading people from doing actual work to organize people and wield collective working class power is a weird "winning" strategy to undertake but you do you

                  • moist [any]
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                    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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                      4 years ago

                      the whole "online isn't real" thing is tiring tbh, obviously it has its impacts, people with large platforms splintering people up doesn't help with anything. people have to actually waste time dealing with this kind of stuff when it happens

                        • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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                          4 years ago

                          Well i hope thats the extent of it but its indicative of more serious underlying problems if a handful of wreckers can cause so many people to turn stupid af overnight. Everyone thats now yelling at each other was working together effectively this time last year. I know people who arent terminally online wont know anything about this whole dumb shit but like most people who organize are online so its just a huge waste of time for everyone to have to be arguing over stupid shit, like everyones overworked enough already this needs to be dissuaded or it will have real effects on things.

                            • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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                              well i agree it doesnt matter to the larger movement but it still can send people down failed routes and i just feel weird not speaking out against it if i can, its not like online cant lead people to actually effective organizing, yeah maybe it doesnt have any huge impact but doesnt feel right disregarding people idk maybe i shouldnt care about any of this shit

  • CoralMarks [he/him]
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    4 years ago

    Could we stop having struggle sessions over some electoralist bullshit? jfc

    You won't be getting M4A one way or the other.

  • moist [any]
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    • BeanBoy [she/her]
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      4 years ago

      In b4 “we have to FTV to show how much power we don’t have so people will get mad”

      • moist [any]
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        • BeanBoy [she/her]
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          4 years ago

          The doctrine of eternal return except it’s forcing the vote

          • moist [any]
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      • ProfessionalSlacker
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        4 years ago

        I think I'm glad this discourse is happening only because it reminds me that all these media people are electoralist "progressives" that don't have any interest in an actual socialist movement. Whether its Nomiki Konst saying Jimmy Dore is doing violence by saying the f word or BJG thinking a hashtag campaign is important politics, they all need to be jettisoned from my brain because they literally don't matter and are not my allies.

        • BeanBoy [she/her]
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          4 years ago

          no no no your displeasure with elected officials should manifest itself as placing even more importance on how they vote.

    • the_river_cass [she/her]
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      4 years ago

      I just want a giant banner across this site saying "STOP TALKING ABOUT BOURGEOIS POLITICS! IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER!"

    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      It is because its hugely counterproductive to actually getting these fucking idiots to organize a meaningful mass working class movement. Instead Jimmy is being a wrecker and just disenfranchising people and calling everyone a traitor and him and MPP are gonna send people down the useless path of failed third party tactics that theyre trying to elevate to some sort of genius winning strategy. There's no neat trick to building a working class movement, you gotta do the organizing work!

      • moist [any]
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        • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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          4 years ago

          no smooth brain you do the work of building a mass working class movement, do you people not understand theres actual people in the streets actively organizing people to gain us actual power? how the fuck do you think any of this works

          • the_river_cass [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            instead of worrying about these online shitfests over bourgeois politics, how about we all focus on being those people organizing in the streets?

          • moist [any]
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          • xXSWCC_DaddyYOLOXx [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            Control of an entire galaxy? Liberals can more easily imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism

  • noamdeeznutz [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    the whole point of this was to expose the squad - to show that they wont even do the bare minimum, there is so much wasted energy trying to reform the democratic party :xi-plz:

    • mrbigcheese [he/him]
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      4 years ago

      so you expose the squad and then people will do what? people seemed to have mostly gotten from all this that you actually just need to elect a squad 2.0 but on a 3rd party ballot line...