Is it hand-wringing to feel upset at civilians being taken hostage? Tell me why I should look an 8-year old Israeli kid in the eye and tell them they deserve what's coming to them
I think it doesn’t help to turn the focal core of what you’re upset with to that, in this moment. Yeah, it sucks. But tell me why I should look a Palestinian 8-year old in the eye and tell them their parents deserved to be tortured and killed. A tiger is backed into a corner and stabbed repeatedly, and swipes out with its claws — if you’re unhappy with who it hits, let’s root for the tiger to liberate itself so there isn’t a need for any swiping. And let’s also be upset with the assholes who would put their children in the way of a cornered tiger as a means of controlling it
GivingEuropeASpook is wrong about the Palestine stuff but they are actually right that indigenous decolonization movements do not generally call for the deportation of white people back to Europe so idk what you're on about here.
What the fuck? Israel is moving settlers from Israel and other parts of the world into the West Bank with the explicit purpose of genociding the Palestinian people. Israel goes into the West Bank, rips Palestinians out of their homes, demolishes them, and moves settlers into new buildings. This is happening in 2023.
What does that have to do with being forcibly relocated to countries that won't even take them? And what about the ones that dobresir their government? Should they be allowed to stay? Would some future Palestinian court be set up to determine that?
Israelis are like Canadians or Americans in terms of how they relate to global hierarchies and oppression. I would wager that's what most Hexbear users are as well.
I mean, I consider the killing of the Romanov children to be a tragic necessity at best, And someone recently argued to me that it wasn't even actually necessary. And also while I was searching for that post I was reminded that someone else told me that there was no evidence of an order from the higher ups to kill the kids.
Like, I completely agree that revolutions are messy and that we can't condemn them for excesses and errors, and that the scope of the amount of children killed by the forces they are fighting against are much higher and deserve our tears much more.
But at the end of the day, Alexei was 13, unequivocably a child, and with no administrative power as well. Applying some sort of collective guilt to him for the crimes of his father/dynasty is not materialist. Ideally, if the Civil War situation hadn't forced their hand, he would have been Puyi'd instead.
Like the person you're replying to here is being a concern troll asshole but on a base level I don't think concern for the murder of children is a bad thing. Like I think being able to say "wow, a child died, that sucks" proves that you are still human. I'm not sure I want to fight a revolution on the side of people who don't retain the idea that killing children is something to be avoided as much as possible.
In the case of this conflict, it absolutely needs to be acknowledged that the rage for the death of these children should be set at the feet of the colonizers themselves, not the people resisting them, to be clear. But I can't agree with the implication that I can't be sad at all about kids dying. Kids are my life. I work with them professionally and they are the primary thing I care about in the world. Any child's death is going to get to me on some level. Absolutely I should put their deaths in context and look at the bigger picture, and put the fault for their deaths at the right person. But that doesn't mean the base emotion of "I am sad a child died" is wrong.
Any child's death is going to get to me on some level
You just wrote a couple paragraphs about an aristocratic kid dying a hundred years ago while imperial exploitation grinds up hundreds of thousands of kids a year
I literally acknowledged that perspective is important like three times in those paragraphs. Sorry I have a bit of an autistic fixation on this. I get it. The victims of the Tsars deserve our tears more than Alexei does. I literally said that already. But idk any mention of the Romanov deaths is going to trigger a response from be because its a fixation. It was one of the things I struggled with for the longest time because of my difficulty accepting the idea that a child's death is ever a "pragmatic necessity". So its still very much on my mind to this day.
ETA: Its also worth noting that just because I make one post focusing on a topic doesnt mean I'm not upset about the "imperial exploitation grinding up hundreds of thousands of kids a year". Honestly, I do speak up about that but sometimes I feel like it goes without saying. I dont understand this frequent idea presented that because you write about one thing, you dont care about the other more important thing.
Is it hand-wringing to feel upset at civilians being taken hostage? Tell me why I should look an 8-year old Israeli kid in the eye and tell them they deserve what's coming to them
I think it doesn’t help to turn the focal core of what you’re upset with to that, in this moment. Yeah, it sucks. But tell me why I should look a Palestinian 8-year old in the eye and tell them their parents deserved to be tortured and killed. A tiger is backed into a corner and stabbed repeatedly, and swipes out with its claws — if you’re unhappy with who it hits, let’s root for the tiger to liberate itself so there isn’t a need for any swiping. And let’s also be upset with the assholes who would put their children in the way of a cornered tiger as a means of controlling it
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The Israelis could have fucked off back home any fucking time
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This is a hilarious argument if you apply to other places.
"What were the children of American colonists meant to do? They've never lived anywhere else."
"What were the children of white South African colonists meant to do? They've never lived anywhere else."
"What were the children of Australian colonists meant to do? They've never lived anywhere else."
Find me the indigenous activists calling for the forced relocation of all white people back to Europe
The idea that dismantling systems of oppression means doesn't mean that white people will be forced back to Europe, what are you talking about?
You don’t know much about decolonization movements, do you?
GivingEuropeASpook is wrong about the Palestine stuff but they are actually right that indigenous decolonization movements do not generally call for the deportation of white people back to Europe so idk what you're on about here.
What the fuck? Israel is moving settlers from Israel and other parts of the world into the West Bank with the explicit purpose of genociding the Palestinian people. Israel goes into the West Bank, rips Palestinians out of their homes, demolishes them, and moves settlers into new buildings. This is happening in 2023.
No investigation, no right to speak.
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Resist their government which continuously expands settlements into Palestinian territory and commits genocide.
What does that have to do with being forcibly relocated to countries that won't even take them? And what about the ones that dobresir their government? Should they be allowed to stay? Would some future Palestinian court be set up to determine that?
Israelis are like Canadians or Americans in terms of how they relate to global hierarchies and oppression. I would wager that's what most Hexbear users are as well.
Generally speaking, as far as I'm aware, most leftists advocate for a Truth and Reconciliation type situation in post-liberation Palestine yes.
The point is that this is all the fault of the Israeli government. What should the Palestinians do?
?
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If the civilians are lucky, their captors are more humane than the average settler.
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Not in the least what I said, but if you need a reason, it's a pretty funny thing to go around doing
Yeah so funny to tell a child they deserved to be hurt
Yes, imagining you going around and telling random Israeli children that is quite funny to me
Man you would be crying about the Romanov children halfway through the Russian civil war. Shut the fuck up
I mean, I consider the killing of the Romanov children to be a tragic necessity at best, And someone recently argued to me that it wasn't even actually necessary. And also while I was searching for that post I was reminded that someone else told me that there was no evidence of an order from the higher ups to kill the kids.
Like, I completely agree that revolutions are messy and that we can't condemn them for excesses and errors, and that the scope of the amount of children killed by the forces they are fighting against are much higher and deserve our tears much more.
But at the end of the day, Alexei was 13, unequivocably a child, and with no administrative power as well. Applying some sort of collective guilt to him for the crimes of his father/dynasty is not materialist. Ideally, if the Civil War situation hadn't forced their hand, he would have been Puyi'd instead.
Like the person you're replying to here is being a concern troll asshole but on a base level I don't think concern for the murder of children is a bad thing. Like I think being able to say "wow, a child died, that sucks" proves that you are still human. I'm not sure I want to fight a revolution on the side of people who don't retain the idea that killing children is something to be avoided as much as possible.
In the case of this conflict, it absolutely needs to be acknowledged that the rage for the death of these children should be set at the feet of the colonizers themselves, not the people resisting them, to be clear. But I can't agree with the implication that I can't be sad at all about kids dying. Kids are my life. I work with them professionally and they are the primary thing I care about in the world. Any child's death is going to get to me on some level. Absolutely I should put their deaths in context and look at the bigger picture, and put the fault for their deaths at the right person. But that doesn't mean the base emotion of "I am sad a child died" is wrong.
You just wrote a couple paragraphs about an aristocratic kid dying a hundred years ago while imperial exploitation grinds up hundreds of thousands of kids a year
Seems like a strange thing to focus on
I literally acknowledged that perspective is important like three times in those paragraphs. Sorry I have a bit of an autistic fixation on this. I get it. The victims of the Tsars deserve our tears more than Alexei does. I literally said that already. But idk any mention of the Romanov deaths is going to trigger a response from be because its a fixation. It was one of the things I struggled with for the longest time because of my difficulty accepting the idea that a child's death is ever a "pragmatic necessity". So its still very much on my mind to this day.
ETA: Its also worth noting that just because I make one post focusing on a topic doesnt mean I'm not upset about the "imperial exploitation grinding up hundreds of thousands of kids a year". Honestly, I do speak up about that but sometimes I feel like it goes without saying. I dont understand this frequent idea presented that because you write about one thing, you dont care about the other more important thing.
"Your parents sacrificed you to their blood machine."
Well would do you say to her, asshole?
Won’t someone think of the colonizers?
because 8 year old Palestinians are murdered constantly, this isnt a difficult moral situatuation
Yes
How is that any different?
There is no such thing as an Israeli civilian. All settlers are valid targets.