Feel free to report antisemitic comments, but antizionism isn't antisemitism and acting like it is is antisemitic and will net you a ban starting once this comment is posted.
Reporting borderline stuff will not get you banned but as someone who had family at auschwitz I'm tired of blatant antisemitism in defense of a settler colonialist apartheid regime.
Hall of shame:
@ElMemerino@lemmy.world
Mmm, there's nuance there. It can be exploited to push antisemitism, but it isn't inherently antisemitic.
As a Jew, I say this kindly as I possibly can but it very much is quite strong in the real world. I've experienced antisemitism numerous times over with people using antizionism as an excuse. Antisemitism is really bad and has risen in the past few years online and offline, and people with bad intentions absolutely exploit Israeli war crimes to justify their antisemitism. And it creates a shitty feedback loop as hardcore Zionists point to instances of antisemitism that's in done under the guise of antizionism as "hey look see they hate us thats why we need zionism!"
Any group. Antisemitism is unfortunately a unique form of racism that can be perpetuated by anyone. It's complicated, and it's complexity makes it all the more frustrating. It's not just a Nazi thing, it's an anyone thing. Anyone can perpetuate antisemitism, not just Nazis. That's why it's such a prevalent form of bigotry across the world. It's also prevalent not just in Europe but there is antisemitism that has been culturally common in the Middle East as well as it is in the West, most of it which predates Israels founding as a whole too. That doesn't justify Israels bullshit and their fascist government. Jew's are hated by nearly everyone, everywhere.
Because West media purposely masking Israel with the cloak of cultural protection given to Jews is often what I discuss with my friend and is fucking disgusting and a disservice to all of the innocent Jews.
This specifically is something to be very careful when stating, as it veers dangerously close into territory of "jews control the media" which is an antisemitic conspiracy theory. I know what you are trying to say and our intentions seem to be in good faith here, but I ask you to analyze that as it is one of those things that people may take in very bad faith.
https://www.ushmm.org/antisemitism/what-is-antisemitism/explained <- this is a good primer for it. It's extremely complicated and there's a reason why even in the US many well intentioned people don't understand it either. It also doesn't help that Israel uses legit examples of antisemitism to try and shield their war crimes from criticism.
Also any expression of support for the Israel led genocide of Palestinians or any sort bigotry will not be tolerated as per Rule 3.
There's a difference between antizionism and antisemitism. Just as there's a difference between Israel and Jews.
Blame Israel, it's anti Israel. Blame the Jews, it's antisemitism.
let people live and come to some terms/ reality.
So I take you support a ceasefire and negotiations to end the Russia - Ukraine war?
If you want to discuss how the Palestinians have accomplished nothing but their own suffering, while having nothing to show for it, then I'm all ears
If you want to defend acts of Israeli apartheid towards Palestinians, I'm not going to listen. I'm South African, I oppose apartheid everywhere. As Nelson Mandela said, our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinian people.
I will not defend the killing of civilians by any side. That is morally unjustifiable. I will be clear however, that violence begets violence, and Israel has been indiscriminately bombing civilians (a terrorist tactic), and stealing land and homes for decades. The way to end this is to stop the violence, and come to the negotiation table. A two state solution of some sort is a compromise that is desperately needed to ease tensions.
You've been defending terrorists the whole time. Israel has never taken hostages like the Palestinians have. There's no end goal in these attacks. Whatever problems the Palestinians have will not be fixed by what they're doing.
I can change the place names in your quote a bit and you sound exactly like the typical boilerplate response of a 1970s-80s South African pro-Apartheid liberal whining about how "uMkontho we Sizwe is too violent". Just flatly admit that you support the Apartheid rule and the list of crimes perpetrated by the Israeli government.
. If you want to discuss how the
PalestiniansBanderites have accomplished nothing but their own suffering, while having nothing to show for it, then I'm all ears.Ftfy
That's what op was advocating for. Or did you forget that Israel is an apartheid state?
tell that to the fascist government exterminating palestinians on their own land
and come to some terms/ reality.
Imagine telling this to someone when France was under occupation by Germany
What a moving, salient political take. Good thing "Just stop it and leave us alone😡🤬" is a belief that always survives against armed militant resistance
With the establishment of a relationship of oppression, violence has already begun. Never in history has violence been initiated by the oppressed. How could they be the initiators, if they themselves are the result of violence? How could they be the sponsors of something objective whose objective inauguration called forth their existence as oppressed? There would be no oppressed had there been no prior of violence to establish their subjugation.
And it is clear that in the colonial countries the peasants alone are revolutionary, for they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The starving peasant, outside the class system is the first among the exploited to discover that only violence pays. For him there is no compromise, no possible coming to terms; colonization and decolonization a simply a question of relative strength.
Get this into your head: if violence were only a thing of the future, if exploitation and oppression never existed on earth, perhaps displays of nonviolence might relieve the conflict. But if the entire regime, even your nonviolent thoughts, is governed by a thousand-year old oppression, your passiveness serves no other purpose but to put you on the side of the oppressors.
"We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians ... Choose peace rather than confrontation. Except in cases where we cannot get, where we cannot proceed, or we cannot move forward. Then if the only alternative is violence, we will use violence."
- Nelson Mandela
I guess the time has come where Palestinians cannot move forward, and have to use violence.
"It is of no use for Israel to talk of peace, if they still hold onto the Arab territories of which they conquered."
Want to guess who said this one?
The Palestinians have been pushed to breaking point by decades of apartheid. Obviously terrorist acts and killing civilans by any side is unjustifiable, but general Palestinian resistance against Israeli military targets and soldiers is self defence at this point. And let's be very clear, you can't steal Palestinian people's homes, kick Palestinians out of their land, and joyfully watch Palestinians being bombed in an open air concentration camp , which Israeli settlers have been doing to Palestinians, and not expect a response in turn. You reap what you sow.
Palestinians: got their land stolen by Israel
Israel: Surprised stealing people's land makes them want to shoot you
SurprisedPikachu.png
Yes, the land is stolen. Yes, resistance is legitimate. No, murder of civilians is not acceptable, no matter which side does it.
Would you really hold the same view if native Americans massacred American civilians in the US today?
Personally my stance isn't so much that I think its "acceptable" as I think its "an unfortunate reality". Revolutions are not clean, ever. Individuals involved in it do bad things. Holding the oppressed to the standards of having a completly clean revolution (impossible) is just counterproductive. I support the revolutionaries even if not every action they take is morally right. I dont withdraw my support for something that is good on the whole because of individual acts that are not good.
Its also worth noting that Israel chose to put civilians on the front lines of a settler project, and that this is kind of the obvious consequence of that. It can easily be argued, I think correctly, that they wanted this so they could look like the victims. Despite them being the oppressors.
if u.s. "civilians" were intentionally aiding in the genocide their government is carrying out? yes, killing them would be 100% justified, no matter who did it or when.
Settlers are not civilians. They are non combat support for the illegal occupation.
Yeah you're right your right I'm just being a shitter sorry
However, your last question is a little interesting. I would support it If native Americans were slaughtering Americans while they were still stealing their land. Israel is contemporary colonialism, and because they can get away with it and still be the victims, that is white supremacy
The Palestinians are a sovereign people being genocided by an occupying armed force. What are they supposed to do? Just wait there patiently to be exterminated one by one?
This could easily be stopped by Israel just getting the fuck out of Palestinian land.
there's a modlog at the bottom of every page if you want even more evidence of how hilariously wrong you are
that's where I had to go to see you calling internet comments "war crimes" since your post had been removed
also - lol, lmao
Also, too bad this place isn't moderated, getting hard to choose between it and Reddit
Then go back to reddit then and spare us your concern troll moaning in support of a genocidal ethnostate. Any violence done by Palestinians is self defense at this point.
Also, this place is heavily moderated, it's just not an echo chamber where you're going to see nothing but opinions identical to your own (dogshit) worldview. Yes, your first comment was removed, as well it should have been.
Remember when Israel just mowed down peaceful protestors after Trump moved the American embassy to Jerusalem? That embassy hasn't been moved back under a Democratic president, either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018%E2%80%932019_Gaza_border_protests
This is but one example, under a climate of constant incursion into Gaza and stealing ever more land. That's what Israeli settlements are, after all. They claim land from Palestinians, force them out of their homes, then move in Israeli families.
Anything Hamas does is self-defense.
Been seeing claims on social media (so of course be skeptical) of at least one destroyed Merkava tank, POWs taken from that tank, a Zionist Entity military barracks overwhelmed with loss of all occupiers inside, and Palestinian fighters in control of at least one illegal settlement.
May Palestine finally be free, from the river to the sea.
The unit the barracks allegedly belonged to. If true it means some of those responsible for the killing of Ibrahim al-Nabulsi have been brought to justice.
It won't be, but nothing about being forced in an open air concentration camp is pretty
The only path to victory is protracted guerilla war. Their best case scenario is fighting for a decade.
There are videos of a Merkava destroyed by a drone-launched PG-7, photos of a second destroyed Merkava, and videos of MANPADS shooting down Israeli helicopters.
I saw the footage of a drone dropping an explosive on a Merkava. Video cut out before the smoke cleared so who knows if the tank was knocked out? I know at least one Merkava was burned and IDF prisoners taken from it, so entirely possible.
The only video of Israeli helicopters I've seen are video game fakes a la Ukrainian cope from 2022.
Israel existing involves the indiscriminate massacre of Palestinians. You only care when they fight back. Eat shit
Do you have any actual criteria for that stat? I don't either but I know I've seen enough videos of families removed at gun point from their homes, enough for a few lifetimes.
Hell, the attacks on Al Asqa is more than enough proof that they're not simply building homes on land they own, but are acting as a violent invading force.
but in the vast majority of cases Israeli operations don’t intend to harm civilians.
You mean like when apartment towers, hospitals, schools, water treatment plants, media offices, etc. in the Gaza Strip get leveled? Also, what are the Israeli secret service doing in the Oliver Tambo Airport all the way in Johannesburg for the past 15 years?
Do you support terrorists roaming the streets and killing families in their homes?
no, but you do, fascist piece of shit.
but in the vast majority of cases Israeli operations don’t intend to harm civilians.
That is categorically untrue. What do you think the intention of bombing the Gaza strip is? The population density there is too high for precision airstrikes to be a possibility. What do you think Israeli settlers stealing the homes of Palestinians is? Israel has bombed the offices of journalists and killed them before. How is that not intending to harm civilians. Just because Israel uses the cloak of plausible deniability and fancy language to say that they don't target civilians, it doesn't make it true.
They enjoy killing civilians because they view all Palestinians as subhumans and threats.
I know these people, I know they don’t target civilians.
no you don't
lmao he sounds like a guy getting interrogated for a crime he helped a friend cover up. Just lying on easy mode.
"the Palestinian population has been increasing for decades."
Hasbara talking point detected.
Do you support terrorists roaming the streets and killing families in their homes?
No, thats's why I'm anti-Isreal
Yeah I guess 5,000+ Palestinians just happened to be involved in wacky Looney Toons accidents near Israeli military operations.
Show
the vast majority of cases Israeli operations don’t intend to harm civilians.
Show
And it's still happening, fully out of your reach. Cry like the bitch you are
Not just without Israel but where every single colonizer is either doing hard labor to pay for their crimes, deported to Europe or dead
so weird how the victims of a genocide would prefer the apartheid state to not exist
Palestine is not enacting a genocide. That assertion is frankly disgusting.
Have libs really begun to abuse the word "genocide" so badly that an act of war by itself against an oppressive state is now considered genocidal?
Yeah just like Russia totally wants to kill every last Ukranian, right? You clowns have nothing but projection.
When the Apartheid rule in South Africa ended, a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" was set up to prevent just this kind of retaliation from materializing. Even the Big Black Book of why Israel is peepeepoopoo according to South Africa that I have, even suggests also setting up a Truth and Reconciliation Commission for this same reason for when Palestine is liberated.
However, you are more than likely engaging in a bad-faith argument, so...
okay well thanks for your prognostication but israel is doing a genocide now
what may or may not happen in the future according to the world's least informed dipshit is irrelevant
I know it's unlikely to happen, but you liberals should really start asking yourselves why these sort of hypothetical scenarios are required to justify your worldview.
they're in constant state of terror to the tune of "they'll do to us what we did to them!"
see also US slaveowners with their constant fantasizing about slave revolts, and their increased brutality to the enslaved to prevent it.
see also ancient spartans living in constant terror of a slave uprising and brutalizing their enslaved populations.
see also current US whites malding about the non-white population rising...
always the same shit with these fucks.
"After Hamas Offensive" fucking Zionist rag, even after Israel literally blew up their fucking offices in Palestine
Al Jazeera is run by a bunch Brits that have full editorial control unless it conflicts with Qatar's foreign interests. It's a giant dogsh*t media outlet pretending to be progressive. It's like The Guardian of the middle east, not worth wiping your butt with.
100% completely uncritical support to the liberatory resistance fighters of Palestine in their pursuit of decolonisation of their lands and right to self defence against Israel's aggression, occupation and destructive regime.
I'm looking up combat footage in Telegram, and it ain't looking pretty for the Zionists. You can tell the Palestinians caught them completely off guard with all the dead IDF solders lying in the pool of their blood without combat gear or even pants. Paper tigers always act tough until the colonized fight back, then they're cowering in garbage bins or taking the first flight back to the US and Europe.
The million dollar question is whether the US will write off Ukraine as a loss in order to bolster its most prized proxy state or whether the US will continue to stretch itself thin by fighting multiple fronts.
Man, what a dumb comment.
They are unarmed and fear being shot, how the fuck is that cowering? It's just a bunch of teens trying to survive.
considering this is what lemm.ee is allowing, i can only imagine what the more reddit-infested lemmy.world looks like
It looks like a tiny sub with three people at the most commenting, and that's just me being generous and not assuming they're all alts.
Nah, that's Israel, they're the apartheid state, remember?
Clearly you don't understand what the term "apartheid" means, nor why Israel has been called an "apartheid" state for decades.
Also the irony of you telling two South Africans "that they have no clue what they're talking about".
I'm no South African, but you're a useful idiot for the ruling class if you are so ready to dismiss the voices of minoritized groups, i.e. the ones who don't have the media reach to tell you what to think.
Damn, can't believe we managed to get Terre'Blanche himself in this thread.
It's not a buzzword, it is apartheid. South Africans who have fought against apartheid and suffered under it agree, that Israel is an apartheid state. I know because I have I have talked to them. If you can't agree with that, there is no use having a conversation.
Associated Press: Hamas militant group has started a war that ‘Israel will win,’ defense minister says
New York Times: Gaza and Israel on War Footing After Militants Launch Surprise Assaults
Arab News: Hamas launches surprise attack as gunmen enter Israel
Israel Hayom: Hamas claims dozens of Israelis captured in surprise offensive; 4 Israelis killed by rocket fire
RT: Hamas launches major attack on Israel
SCMP: Rocket barrages from Gaza strike Israel amid Hamas infiltrations
Xinhua: Barrages of rockets fired from Gaza into Israeli cities
The Guardian: Israel declares state of war after Hamas fires thousands of rockets and ‘militants cross border’
BBC: Palestinian gunmen infiltrate Israel after rocket barrage from Gaza
