I don't think that's what it seems like. I've read most of the exchange and I don't think you hate women but you probably are unwilling to do a bit of self examination. As you acknowledge we do live in a sexist society and nobody is immune to their surroundings.
Like even I as someone who reads feminist theory/has experienced sexism will have moments where I instinctively find certain womanly traits annoying and I have to stop myself and question if that annoyance comes from a place of sexism or not (and honestly, sometimes it does). I AM A FEMINIST I STILL THINK I HAVE MY SEXIST MOMENTS. No one is immune from doing sexist things and we have to constantly be open to unlearning/rethinking things. Most instances of sexism are very subtle and unintentional. The important thing is willingness to listen/improve.
Also even if you find it annoying from a completely neutral place, you don't have to point it out. There are a million reasons to dislike the pod, there isn't a need to point out their voices especially if someone is telling you that it contributes to sexist dialogue around women. It's not like pointing out the voice thing is some deep or insightful thing, you're not losing anything by deleting or editing the comment.
you don’t have to point it out. There are a million reasons to dislike the pod, there isn’t a need to point out their voices especially if someone is telling you that it contributes to sexist dialogue around women.
This was what I was thinking. We all have preferences, and maybe those preferences come from a harmful place sometimes, and maybe they don't, but when one is then motivated to publicly criticize another person based on one's personal preferences that's crossing a line.
Though following this thread did bring up a question: what does good self-crit look like in this scenario? After you've recognized that a preference or belief or what-have-you is problematic, how would one reshape their thinking?
I think firstly, its important to remember that a lot of ideas are informed by the world around you and it doesn't necessarily make you a bad person just because you realized or someone has pointed out that your ideas might be associated with bigotry. If someone has, try not to make it about yourself (like even if someone isn't being super nice about it, think about why you're more concerned with how you're being criticized rather than how your words affect others. Focus on WHY you are being critized vs. how . not saying you do this but I see it a lot here
As for next steps its really hard to say because it can be different for everyone. Maybe try and think about how you dismantle capitalist poisoned ideas and apply it to other areas?
For example: Feeling less worthy because of your income. It's very normal to feel this way because in capitalist hellworld everyone around you has either explicitly or subtly reinforced ideas around money based meritocracy. Its OK to have this feeling but also recognize that it comes from a shiity and unfair world and its not some objective sentiment or one that comes from thin air. Its a constant battle and it sucks but it does get easier over time. As I learned more leftist ideas, I got better at catching myself for feeling bad about doing things that "weren't productive".
Another thing is that your sense of normalcy is completely constructed and sometimes things that are out of your control can still be problematic And it's ok to not like things but really think about how you enage with others about it. Like if you dislike a certain style of music its ok to not force yourself to like it but also recognize that maybe one of the reasons you don't is because you haven't been exposed to it (i think studies have found that people tastes in music tend to be mostly formed during their teens). If a style of music has not been supported due to racism during that time, then your tastes are shaped by racism even if it is out of your control or doesn't seem like it at first. Its ok to admit that and work towards supporting and not putting down certain marginalized styles even if its not your cup of tea.
just saw it, and im not 'trying to spark' anything, you complimented my artistic ability, and it's something I have a lot of insecurity about and like... i really treasure those kinds of praise. I was thanking you, asshole.
this is why I don't accept fucking compliments, fucking shit.
It was a sarcastic remark to you and others about framing me as a sexist. The context of the comment is everything.
Now I’m an asshole for saying I don’t want another struggle started? How am I not supposed to read yours as sarcastic and trying to instigate something with a 12 hour later reply after everyone has moved on?
No one told you to not accept compliments. Fucking hell. Literally victimizing yourself at this point.
so now you're shitting on my ability to paint. wonderful. thanks. that was fucking necessary. I literally just told you im fucking insecure about this shit. what the fuck is wrong with you?
YOU GAVE ME A COMPLIMENT AND THEN SHIT ON ME WHEN I ACCEPTED IT EARNESTLY what the fuck else am I supposed to do to protect myself from that shit emotionally? you didn't just tell me, you SHOWED me, which, from my old lit classes, I seem to remember is MUCH FUCKING STRONGER.
fuck you don't call me comrade after that shit. fucking scroll the fuck up and take responsibility for your shitty behavior. I'm upset BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOUR ACTIONS AND YOUR WORDS and you tricking me into accepting a compliment about a thing im super insecure about, then telling me im an idiot for doing so. go fuck yourself you delusional proto-reactionary piece of shit.
Your replied to a comment from 12 hours ago that was a sarcastic remark regarding the framing of me being a sexist due to disagreements with other comrades about the nature of their criticisms. (Not the criticism itself, but about the time/place for defending it which I was told was tone policing.)
I never mentioned anything about your paintings. I never said you were a bad artist or that you should quit. I literally was saying you are taking a comment from half a day ago out of context. Then when I say what I meant by that comment during the time, you tell me I’m an asshole and to fuck myself because I’m actually insulting you, and not complimenting you?
you literally did! you said I had painted a great picture of you as a sexist asshole!
and then you took it back when I accepted!
you fucking lying piece of shit gaslighting monster! there's a fucking log, archive.org has records, and I took screenshots because I was so proud of someone saying I was a good painter. I just assumed I'd broken out the paints while I was in the drugs. ITS PROVABLE don't even try to edit this shit.
Yes. Figuratively painting a picture of me as a sexist online. On the internet. Not a physical painting of me being a sexist?
Like come on lol what is this now? You do not actually believe I was complimenting your personal hobby of painting when we were in a heated discussion of misogyny, sexism, vocal fry, and Red Scare.
The context is everything. As I have said. You can check archive.org for what I said about it even.
hey, wow, good dodge you lying gaslighting emotionally abusive piece of shit, but I have links and screenshots and I will always know the truth. fuck you you reactionary fucking shit scanner.
im so sorry for believing somebody could actually like my art, I should have fucking known better, is that what you're fucking saying? I should BE FUCKING SORRY for ever believing that someone thought I made pretty lines or had good use of color in a limited palette?
fuck you posting images is really hard on this operating system and its honestly not worth the effort to "prove" something to a disingenuous reactionary who will just move the fucking goal posts. because you ARE a reactionary under there, whatever armor you might wear.
Honestly I would love to see your art and paintings. I wish I was able to artistically express myself. You don’t have to prove anything to me or anyone, especially if it is something you care about Ike you seem to about art/painting. No part of me is trying to shit on or hate on that part of you. Simply was clarifying that the comment from 12 hours ago was in the context of the whole argument, not complimenting a hobby of yours that I had no idea about.
I’m sure parts of me are still reactionary. It’s not easy to break out of liberalism, and we live in a liberal democracy after all.
this isn't about you, you piece of shit. I have a policy of not wasting effort trying to prove shit to people who are not and can not be anything other than dishonest reactionaries. I only even read the first six words of your post. eat shit fascist. your entire psychology is pure fucking fasc, literally everything you've said.
and stop calling yourself a fucking communist. you're not. you never will be. stop fucking lying to yourself and everybody else, you give my statist comrades a bad name.
this is objective fucking fact. you act exactly like a disingenuous reactionary. literally everything you say, with the exception of the barest vineer of communist aesthetic, is straight up reactionary bullshit. I may as well be in r/conservative for this comment.
not a comrade. as I've stated. your speech and rhetorical maneuvers are exactly what a reactionary would do. if he walks like a reactionary, and talks like a reactionary, maybe someone should ask: why the fuck is he pretending to be a communist? he obviously doesn't believe in anything. he's just out for himself and his own privilege. so what's the actual point here?
what is the actual point of pretending to be a communist? why do that?
Yes I am pretending to be a communist. I have not been radicalized by anything in my personal life experience, the US I’m general, or the world at large. All because I made fun of you on chapo.chat. That’s what this whole op has been about.
“ You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next - and why.”
im not questioning that you've been radicalized. im calling you a self centered delusional fascist wearing a communist mask to feel like a good person, and you're not either thing. you';d know it if you were capable of being honest about yourself. fuck you for existing, you're the reason humanity is a lost cause.
and the crazy men that argued with him, too! They're equally to blame for the escalation that led to this horrid comment:
im not questioning that you’ve been radicalized. im calling you a self centered delusional fascist wearing a communist mask to feel like a good person, and you’re not either thing. you’;d know it if you were capable of being honest about yourself. fuck you for existing, you’re the reason humanity is a lost cause.
She comes back, sober, and takes his sarcastic comment genuinely, explaining
It wasnt even sarcastic it was just a turn of phrase. It's an idiom. I legit don't see why she blew up on him for saying "she's a shitty artist" unless they actually don't know what that idiom means which is possible but unlikely. The rest is all fine but that part in particular confused the fuck outta me.
look at the underlying logic in their statements, look at the structure of the things they say, they ways they use identity as a bludgeon, the persecution complex (used to attack discredit and gas light), the way they straight up say something like 'how dare I be a straight cis white man im so persecuted' somewhere on there in a way im pretty sure was unironic; almost everything they said was a dog whistle or a tell, and everything looped back to a persecution-entitlement narrative.
sober me was half curious how far they would take it, half just pissed because of life stuff and saw a fascist as an acceptable target who'd been gaslighting earlier to type-shout at when he popped up in my 'new'. mostly not proud of that.
You guys have painted a pretty good picture that makes it seem like I hate women.
I don't think that's what it seems like. I've read most of the exchange and I don't think you hate women but you probably are unwilling to do a bit of self examination. As you acknowledge we do live in a sexist society and nobody is immune to their surroundings.
Like even I as someone who reads feminist theory/has experienced sexism will have moments where I instinctively find certain womanly traits annoying and I have to stop myself and question if that annoyance comes from a place of sexism or not (and honestly, sometimes it does). I AM A FEMINIST I STILL THINK I HAVE MY SEXIST MOMENTS. No one is immune from doing sexist things and we have to constantly be open to unlearning/rethinking things. Most instances of sexism are very subtle and unintentional. The important thing is willingness to listen/improve.
Also even if you find it annoying from a completely neutral place, you don't have to point it out. There are a million reasons to dislike the pod, there isn't a need to point out their voices especially if someone is telling you that it contributes to sexist dialogue around women. It's not like pointing out the voice thing is some deep or insightful thing, you're not losing anything by deleting or editing the comment.
This was what I was thinking. We all have preferences, and maybe those preferences come from a harmful place sometimes, and maybe they don't, but when one is then motivated to publicly criticize another person based on one's personal preferences that's crossing a line.
Though following this thread did bring up a question: what does good self-crit look like in this scenario? After you've recognized that a preference or belief or what-have-you is problematic, how would one reshape their thinking?
I think firstly, its important to remember that a lot of ideas are informed by the world around you and it doesn't necessarily make you a bad person just because you realized or someone has pointed out that your ideas might be associated with bigotry. If someone has, try not to make it about yourself (like even if someone isn't being super nice about it, think about why you're more concerned with how you're being criticized rather than how your words affect others. Focus on WHY you are being critized vs. how . not saying you do this but I see it a lot here
As for next steps its really hard to say because it can be different for everyone. Maybe try and think about how you dismantle capitalist poisoned ideas and apply it to other areas?
For example: Feeling less worthy because of your income. It's very normal to feel this way because in capitalist hellworld everyone around you has either explicitly or subtly reinforced ideas around money based meritocracy. Its OK to have this feeling but also recognize that it comes from a shiity and unfair world and its not some objective sentiment or one that comes from thin air. Its a constant battle and it sucks but it does get easier over time. As I learned more leftist ideas, I got better at catching myself for feeling bad about doing things that "weren't productive".
Another thing is that your sense of normalcy is completely constructed and sometimes things that are out of your control can still be problematic And it's ok to not like things but really think about how you enage with others about it. Like if you dislike a certain style of music its ok to not force yourself to like it but also recognize that maybe one of the reasons you don't is because you haven't been exposed to it (i think studies have found that people tastes in music tend to be mostly formed during their teens). If a style of music has not been supported due to racism during that time, then your tastes are shaped by racism even if it is out of your control or doesn't seem like it at first. Its ok to admit that and work towards supporting and not putting down certain marginalized styles even if its not your cup of tea.
thanks; I've always wanted to get into the visual arts. im glad the effort is paying off.
Why are you trying to spark the fire to this again? This was 12 hours ago.
just saw it, and im not 'trying to spark' anything, you complimented my artistic ability, and it's something I have a lot of insecurity about and like... i really treasure those kinds of praise. I was thanking you, asshole.
this is why I don't accept fucking compliments, fucking shit.
It was a sarcastic remark to you and others about framing me as a sexist. The context of the comment is everything.
Now I’m an asshole for saying I don’t want another struggle started? How am I not supposed to read yours as sarcastic and trying to instigate something with a 12 hour later reply after everyone has moved on?
No one told you to not accept compliments. Fucking hell. Literally victimizing yourself at this point.
so now you're shitting on my ability to paint. wonderful. thanks. that was fucking necessary. I literally just told you im fucking insecure about this shit. what the fuck is wrong with you?
YOU GAVE ME A COMPLIMENT AND THEN SHIT ON ME WHEN I ACCEPTED IT EARNESTLY what the fuck else am I supposed to do to protect myself from that shit emotionally? you didn't just tell me, you SHOWED me, which, from my old lit classes, I seem to remember is MUCH FUCKING STRONGER.
go fuck yourself and your gaslighting bullshit.
What the fuck?
Are you okay, comrade? Like sincerely, is everything alright?
fuck you don't call me comrade after that shit. fucking scroll the fuck up and take responsibility for your shitty behavior. I'm upset BECAUSE OF YOU AND YOUR ACTIONS AND YOUR WORDS and you tricking me into accepting a compliment about a thing im super insecure about, then telling me im an idiot for doing so. go fuck yourself you delusional proto-reactionary piece of shit.
I didn’t trick you into accepting anything.
Your replied to a comment from 12 hours ago that was a sarcastic remark regarding the framing of me being a sexist due to disagreements with other comrades about the nature of their criticisms. (Not the criticism itself, but about the time/place for defending it which I was told was tone policing.)
I never mentioned anything about your paintings. I never said you were a bad artist or that you should quit. I literally was saying you are taking a comment from half a day ago out of context. Then when I say what I meant by that comment during the time, you tell me I’m an asshole and to fuck myself because I’m actually insulting you, and not complimenting you?
you literally did! you said I had painted a great picture of you as a sexist asshole!
and then you took it back when I accepted!
you fucking lying piece of shit gaslighting monster! there's a fucking log, archive.org has records, and I took screenshots because I was so proud of someone saying I was a good painter. I just assumed I'd broken out the paints while I was in the drugs. ITS PROVABLE don't even try to edit this shit.
Yes. Figuratively painting a picture of me as a sexist online. On the internet. Not a physical painting of me being a sexist?
Like come on lol what is this now? You do not actually believe I was complimenting your personal hobby of painting when we were in a heated discussion of misogyny, sexism, vocal fry, and Red Scare.
The context is everything. As I have said. You can check archive.org for what I said about it even.
hey, wow, good dodge you lying gaslighting emotionally abusive piece of shit, but I have links and screenshots and I will always know the truth. fuck you you reactionary fucking shit scanner.
im so sorry for believing somebody could actually like my art, I should have fucking known better, is that what you're fucking saying? I should BE FUCKING SORRY for ever believing that someone thought I made pretty lines or had good use of color in a limited palette?
eat. every. possible. dick.
Link or your a lib
fuck you posting images is really hard on this operating system and its honestly not worth the effort to "prove" something to a disingenuous reactionary who will just move the fucking goal posts. because you ARE a reactionary under there, whatever armor you might wear.
Honestly I would love to see your art and paintings. I wish I was able to artistically express myself. You don’t have to prove anything to me or anyone, especially if it is something you care about Ike you seem to about art/painting. No part of me is trying to shit on or hate on that part of you. Simply was clarifying that the comment from 12 hours ago was in the context of the whole argument, not complimenting a hobby of yours that I had no idea about.
I’m sure parts of me are still reactionary. It’s not easy to break out of liberalism, and we live in a liberal democracy after all.
this isn't about you, you piece of shit. I have a policy of not wasting effort trying to prove shit to people who are not and can not be anything other than dishonest reactionaries. I only even read the first six words of your post. eat shit fascist. your entire psychology is pure fucking fasc, literally everything you've said.
and stop calling yourself a fucking communist. you're not. you never will be. stop fucking lying to yourself and everybody else, you give my statist comrades a bad name.
If you say so.
this is objective fucking fact. you act exactly like a disingenuous reactionary. literally everything you say, with the exception of the barest vineer of communist aesthetic, is straight up reactionary bullshit. I may as well be in r/conservative for this comment.
You’re just being openly hostile to comrades online now.
not a comrade. as I've stated. your speech and rhetorical maneuvers are exactly what a reactionary would do. if he walks like a reactionary, and talks like a reactionary, maybe someone should ask: why the fuck is he pretending to be a communist? he obviously doesn't believe in anything. he's just out for himself and his own privilege. so what's the actual point here?
what is the actual point of pretending to be a communist? why do that?
Yes I am pretending to be a communist. I have not been radicalized by anything in my personal life experience, the US I’m general, or the world at large. All because I made fun of you on chapo.chat. That’s what this whole op has been about.
“ You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next - and why.”
im not questioning that you've been radicalized. im calling you a self centered delusional fascist wearing a communist mask to feel like a good person, and you're not either thing. you';d know it if you were capable of being honest about yourself. fuck you for existing, you're the reason humanity is a lost cause.
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some dude said he didn't like vocal fry and people jumped on him for being sexist, even though he stated that he dislikes vocal fry in men too
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and the crazy men that argued with him, too! They're equally to blame for the escalation that led to this horrid comment:
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maybe you can help me follow but i literally cant see where he complimented her artistic ability
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It wasnt even sarcastic it was just a turn of phrase. It's an idiom. I legit don't see why she blew up on him for saying "she's a shitty artist" unless they actually don't know what that idiom means which is possible but unlikely. The rest is all fine but that part in particular confused the fuck outta me.
why are they a fascist
look at the underlying logic in their statements, look at the structure of the things they say, they ways they use identity as a bludgeon, the persecution complex (used to attack discredit and gas light), the way they straight up say something like 'how dare I be a straight cis white man im so persecuted' somewhere on there in a way im pretty sure was unironic; almost everything they said was a dog whistle or a tell, and everything looped back to a persecution-entitlement narrative.
sober me was half curious how far they would take it, half just pissed because of life stuff and saw a fascist as an acceptable target who'd been gaslighting earlier to type-shout at when he popped up in my 'new'. mostly not proud of that.