• disco [any]
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    You guys know that grayzone is an op too, right? They’re just a Russian op.

    They hate Bellingcat because Bellingcat is an American op. It’s ops all the way down.

    • snackage [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      Critical support for the Russian op in their righteous fight against NATO imperialism.

      But seriously. No russian ever dropped bombs on my people and no Russian gets hard thinking about bombing Tehran. You can fuck of with that enlightened Centrism shit.

      • disco [any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        It’s not “enlightened centrism” to consume media critically. Russia isn’t some anti-imperialist bulwark, they’re just another empire advancing their own interests.

          • disco [any]
            ·
            edit-2
            4 years ago

            Critical support for the CCCP, but Russia is unabashedly capitalist and reactionary. Like is this seriously a pro Putin board all of a sudden?

            Edit: Putin stans can eat shiiiiiit

              • disco [any]
                ·
                4 years ago

                Yeah, not going to apologize for being born in the US, in case you didn’t know it’s not easy to leave, otherwise I’d have done so already for what it’s worth.

                Kind of curious where you think I’m making “vitriolic accusations” though. I said Gray Zone was a Russian op. I stand by that, but I still read it. I just think it’s important to be aware that they’re also pushing a national interest.

                • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  That is literally a baseline take that even a radlib like Chomsky appreciates, how the fuck is that remotely "iNsUfFeRaBle"

                  Moralistic virtue signaling about dictators your country helped bring to power will always remain the actual insufferable position, sorry

                  • Sincerity [comrade/them]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    Yes, criticism of modern Russia under a literal autocrat is big time “moralistic virtue signalling”.

                    Get outta here. The motherland is dead and gone and any leftist ought rightfully to criticise the current apparatus of power and corruption in Russia.

                    Even mentioning Russia in the same breath as China and Bolivia is completely asinine.

                    • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                      ·
                      4 years ago

                      Yes, criticism of modern Russia under a literal autocrat is big time “moralistic virtue signalling”.

                      If you're an American, YES, especially if you neglect intentionally or otherwise to pair said criticism with the context of HOW and WHY Putin came to power

                      The motherland is dead and gone and any leftist ought rightfully to criticise the current apparatus of power and corruption in Russia.

                      Ok and? You do realize you have absolutely zero moral, political, or social clout to effect change in Russia, again moralistic virtue signalling

                      Even mentioning Russia in the same breath as China and Bolivia is completely asinine.

                      How about mentioning Russia in the context of NATO, is that asinine? Or is agitating for a Second Russian collapse in the span of 30 years somehow "woke" now?

                      • Sincerity [comrade/them]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        Lmao

                        Moralistic virtue signalling “woke”

                        Is this Cha Cha or 2013 Atheist YouTube?

                        This is as simple as accepting that critical thought ought to be levelled at media and it’s not doing an imperialism to do so. You don’t need to do a screed to justify every point of contention.

                        • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                          ·
                          edit-2
                          4 years ago

                          Is this Cha Cha or 2013 Atheist YouTube?

                          Funny, you're kneejerk hysterics about foreign dictators reminded me more of "2013 Atheist YouTube"

                          This is as simple as accepting that critical thought

                          LMAO what "critical thought" have you actually leveled russiagator? I can read your dogshit screed on any thread in r/politics, here's an idea, come up with a take about Russia where you don't sound like a Jake Tapper sockpuppet

                          • Sincerity [comrade/them]
                            ·
                            4 years ago

                            Nice misquote bro.

                            You’re fighting with an enemy that doesn’t exist.

                            I’m literally not from the US, and have no support for Russiagate conspiracies. But your boy up there is failing to take a stance beyond

                            West = US = Imperialism = bad

                            :. Anything not the West = not the US = not imperialism = good and to be trusted

                            • CyborgMarx [any, any]
                              ·
                              4 years ago

                              I’m literally not from the US, and have no support for Russiagate conspiracies

                              uh, huh cool story love, absolutely riveting

                              But your boy up there is failing to take a stance beyond

                              :ohnoes: oh shit my boy didn't take a "STANCE"

                              West = US = Imperialism = bad

                              Yesssss? That is objectively correct, not seeing the issue here

                              :. Anything not the West = not the US = not imperialism = good and to be trusted

                              fucks sake just forward your application to CNN already

                              Also question, do you believe the Ukraine should invade Crimea with the aid of NATO?

                              • Sincerity [comrade/them]
                                ·
                                4 years ago

                                This is unproductive, you can quote my posts piece by piece and add your irony poisoned retorts if it makes you feel better about your day.

                                But I don’t see this going any further than that, and since this is a shared left space rather than reddit we should leave it at that.

    • iKarli [comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Bellingcat is considered an American government op because it's funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is funded by the US government. According to NED president Allen Weinstein:

      A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.

      The Grayzone can't really be considered an op as they're only funded by their readers through direct donations and by their Patreon members and don't accept state funding. I've donated to them before. They're just Marxist journalists that primarily cover Western government-led regime change efforts, regardless of whether the regime change targets are socialist governments (Bolivia, Nicaragua, China, and Venezuela) or not socialist (Iran, Syria, and Russia). You could make the case that RT is a Russian op though as it is funded at least partially by the Russian government although they do host a lot of leftist content with Richard Wolff and Chris Hedges being frequent contributors.

      • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        Bellingcat is considered an American government op because it’s funded by the National Endowment for Democracy

        Part of its funding is from the NED. It's sus, but without knowing how much of their funding comes from the NED I hesitate to call it more than that.

        For what it's worth, Bellingcat claims 35% of its money is from workshops it holds, describes other non-NED funding sources, and it describes its NED money as a grant. The NED claims it issues more than 1,600 grants per year that average $50,000 each.

        The NED is obviously an op, but it's less plausible to claim that any news outlet that receives any money from the NED is also a full-on op, and it's still less plausible to claim that any journalist who receives any income from such a news outlet is a full-on fed.

        • iKarli [comrade/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          Yeah, I agree that it's doubtful that every employee of a NED-funded outlet is necessarily a literal undercover CIA officer. We don't know the exact extent of just outright full collaboration or US government micromanagement within some of these NED-funded organizations. Maybe more of a case here of the US government just cultivating outlets and their employees as at least generally reliable assets for advancing American government interests (Perhaps they were already at least partially ideologically-aligned, share some similar key goals, support current US foreign policy, or just like what NATO has to offer. Hell, maybe the US just sees them as "useful idiots".) and financially supporting them accordingly via NED funding to promote them after recognizing their value. So, yeah, maybe not necessarily always 100% full-on ops or full-on feds.

    • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Without evidence this is just badjacketing. We should have a pretty low tolerance for accusations like this unless they're supported by something at least semi-plausible.

        • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Grayzone. Until this thread I haven't seen even a suggestion that they're suspect, and the accusation here is totally unsupported. We have to be a little smarter than jumping every time someone shouts "this thing is an op."

          With Bellingcat, there's unquestionably a source of funding (the NED) that's justifiably suspect. I don't think the book's written on them, but there's at least something to back up accusations that it's not legit.

          • CyborgMarx [any, any]
            ·
            4 years ago

            I agree, I haven't seen chapos throw russiagate-style accusations like this since the summer of 2018, very strange

            • hogposting [he/him,comrade/them]
              ·
              4 years ago

              Thankfully, I haven't seen this crop up until this thread, and I don't see a lot of people here falling for it.

    • eduardog3000 [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      You guys know that grayzone is an op too, right? They’re just a Russian op.

      Source: just trust me bro